FDA Delays Deeming Regulations

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Re: FDA Delays Deeming Regulations

Post by mustangii » Mon May 29, 2017 8:50 am

I must admit I vape. Like my pipes and all the stuff that goes with them, but I cam vape in the house and car. Waiting to see what is going to happen. I am almost in hoarding mode on tobacco though.

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Re: FDA Delays Deeming Regulations

Post by Del » Mon May 29, 2017 1:47 pm

mustangii wrote:
Mon May 29, 2017 8:50 am
I must admit I vape. Like my pipes and all the stuff that goes with them, but I cam vape in the house and car. Waiting to see what is going to happen. I am almost in hoarding mode on tobacco though.
I've seen your collection. You've been in "hoarding mode" for a long time already.

... Not that there's anything wrong with that.
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Re: FDA Delays Deeming Regulations

Post by Del » Mon May 29, 2017 1:57 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 10:38 am
gaining_age wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 10:22 am
gaining_age wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 10:20 am
That's a fancy website.... almost as fancy as the ones those kids who are suing Trump and the whitehouse over Climate and future concerns have.
Reference website: https://www.youthvgov.org/#intro
Che diavolo gli voi? What do you think is the topic of conversation?

I'm sorry, but almost every time I've tried to discuss pipes or tobacco related subjects with you dolts, I either get some half-retarded response or blatantly condescended to by Rusty. How are a group of pipe smokers so thoroughly uninterested in pipes and or tobacco?
These rules provide some excellent entrepreneurial black-market activities for those of us with tobacco hoards.

You could even become a wealthy expert in defending such from law enforcement.

We could pay you with stash, you know!
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Re: FDA Delays Deeming Regulations

Post by Del » Mon May 29, 2017 1:59 pm

TNLawPiper wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 1:47 pm
gaining_age wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 10:20 am
That's a fancy website.... almost as fancy as the ones those kids who are suing Trump and the whitehouse over Climate and future concerns have.
Del, is that you? Bark twice if you're in Milwaukee.
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Re: FDA Delays Deeming Regulations

Post by Rusty » Mon May 29, 2017 4:27 pm

venator260 wrote:
Sun May 14, 2017 12:12 pm
coco wrote:
Thu May 04, 2017 5:11 am
Serious question: How much evidence do we have that vaping is harmful to health?

I know that a great deal of research has been done on vaping lately, but I am not familiar with the results. Judging from the article only, the proponents of regulation seem to be doing nothing more than using negative terms like "nicotine," "public health risk," and it's for the "children" without citing actual evidence concerning vaping. Likewise, the vaping advocates talk about potential health benefits without citing evidence.

I realize that this was just one article in one newspaper, and it can't be expected to answer all the questions a reader might ask. I also realize that vaping is a relatively new thing, and so long-term evidence is not possible. However, I was just wondering what we know now.

In addition to the good answers above: From what I have read, simply the fact that it had remained mostly unregulated, in and of itself, is a good argument for regulation.
It's new and as a result there hasn't been a lot of history so the longer term epidemiology & behavioural stuff is pretty much unknown. For example, the anti-tobacco folks appear to be suggesting that vaping leads to smoking. I'm not sure that's true but this is an example of contentious issues and philosophy behind control efforts. Because there is no combustion, with all its complex chemistry and emitted carcinogens, it should be much easier to control and reduce or eliminate a lot of the bad stuff that causes problems and vaping should be more acceptable. However, the FDA has been very aggressive with the vaping industry and there has been an ongoing battle between them. Some doctors have suggested that vaping is much less problematic than smoking. This highlights the approach to treating tobacco related habits. The anti-tobacco side, including the FDA appears to want to stop new generations take up smoking (hence "for the children") vs. the medical folks that really have to deal with mature smokers as well.
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Re: FDA Delays Deeming Regulations

Post by mustangii » Mon May 29, 2017 4:31 pm

Del wrote:
Mon May 29, 2017 1:47 pm
mustangii wrote:
Mon May 29, 2017 8:50 am
I must admit I vape. Like my pipes and all the stuff that goes with them, but I cam vape in the house and car. Waiting to see what is going to happen. I am almost in hoarding mode on tobacco though.
I've seen your collection. You've been in "hoarding mode" for a long time already.

... Not that there's anything wrong with that.
that's why I skulk around in the private sales threads. :wavey:
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Re: FDA Delays Deeming Regulations

Post by venator260 » Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:08 pm

Rusty wrote:
Mon May 29, 2017 4:27 pm
venator260 wrote:
Sun May 14, 2017 12:12 pm
coco wrote:
Thu May 04, 2017 5:11 am
Serious question: How much evidence do we have that vaping is harmful to health?

I know that a great deal of research has been done on vaping lately, but I am not familiar with the results. Judging from the article only, the proponents of regulation seem to be doing nothing more than using negative terms like "nicotine," "public health risk," and it's for the "children" without citing actual evidence concerning vaping. Likewise, the vaping advocates talk about potential health benefits without citing evidence.

I realize that this was just one article in one newspaper, and it can't be expected to answer all the questions a reader might ask. I also realize that vaping is a relatively new thing, and so long-term evidence is not possible. However, I was just wondering what we know now.

In addition to the good answers above: From what I have read, simply the fact that it had remained mostly unregulated, in and of itself, is a good argument for regulation.
It's new and as a result there hasn't been a lot of history so the longer term epidemiology & behavioural stuff is pretty much unknown. For example, the anti-tobacco folks appear to be suggesting that vaping leads to smoking. I'm not sure that's true but this is an example of contentious issues and philosophy behind control efforts. Because there is no combustion, with all its complex chemistry and emitted carcinogens, it should be much easier to control and reduce or eliminate a lot of the bad stuff that causes problems and vaping should be more acceptable. However, the FDA has been very aggressive with the vaping industry and there has been an ongoing battle between them. Some doctors have suggested that vaping is much less problematic than smoking. This highlights the approach to treating tobacco related habits. The anti-tobacco side, including the FDA appears to want to stop new generations take up smoking (hence "for the children") vs. the medical folks that really have to deal with mature smokers as well.

I suppose that it's all in how one views it. I understand that 'vaping' has become a hobby in and of itself, instead of just a device used to replace a cigarette habit. Any study I have read has determined that vaping is much less harmful than smoking cigarettes, and perhaps it's not harmful at all. So it seems as though the regulations aren't based on anything except a desire to regulate and a segment of the public that fears anything that occurs without government permission. I'm sure that many want to stop people from becoming smokers, but the studies seem to suggest that all they're inhaling is little more nefarious than flavored water vapor.

This all bleeds into politics, of course. My starting point is that I don't want a government that protects me from myself. That colors my view a bit.

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Re: FDA Delays Deeming Regulations

Post by durangopipe » Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:31 pm

Forget the FDA, our governor is going to do us in:
“Our college president” wrote:
Dear Skyhawks,

Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper has signed an executive order that, in part, extends the current prohibition on smoking in state buildings to e-cigarettes and vaping. It also extends prohibitions on smoking and vaping to the grounds of state buildings, not just the buildings themselves (i.e. it creates smoke-free campuses) ...
My pipe smoking, hugely popular, tenured, former chair, full professor friend with over 30 of service to the college wrote me to tell me he’s writing a response to the president. I don’t know what good it will do since this comes from state govt., and we’re a state institution.

Sadly, he may well retire. He smokes to ease pain and any number of other ailments. He’s among the very best teachers/scholars at the college.

We often gather a small group of students and colleagues for conversation when we go outside for a pipe. I’ll miss that, and I know our students will as well.
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Re: FDA Delays Deeming Regulations

Post by hugodrax » Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:53 pm

durangopipe wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:31 pm
Forget the FDA, our governor is going to do us in:
“Our college president” wrote:
Dear Skyhawks,

Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper has signed an executive order that, in part, extends the current prohibition on smoking in state buildings to e-cigarettes and vaping. It also extends prohibitions on smoking and vaping to the grounds of state buildings, not just the buildings themselves (i.e. it creates smoke-free campuses) ...
My pipe smoking, hugely popular, tenured, former chair, full professor friend with over 30 of service to the college wrote me to tell me he’s writing a response to the president. I don’t know what good it will do since this comes from state govt., and we’re a state institution.

Sadly, he may well retire. He smokes to ease pain and any number of other ailments. He’s among the very best teachers/scholars at the college.

We often gather a small group of students and colleagues for conversation when we go outside for a pipe. I’ll miss that, and I know our students will as well.
You vote for a Walloon, you take your chances.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: FDA Delays Deeming Regulations

Post by durangopipe » Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:14 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:53 pm
durangopipe wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:31 pm
Forget the FDA, our governor is going to do us in:
“Our college president” wrote:
Dear Skyhawks,

Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper has signed an executive order that, in part, extends the current prohibition on smoking in state buildings to e-cigarettes and vaping. It also extends prohibitions on smoking and vaping to the grounds of state buildings, not just the buildings themselves (i.e. it creates smoke-free campuses) ...
My pipe smoking, hugely popular, tenured, former chair, full professor friend with over 30 of service to the college wrote me to tell me he’s writing a response to the president. I don’t know what good it will do since this comes from state govt., and we’re a state institution.

Sadly, he may well retire. He smokes to ease pain and any number of other ailments. He’s among the very best teachers/scholars at the college.

We often gather a small group of students and colleagues for conversation when we go outside for a pipe. I’ll miss that, and I know our students will as well.
You vote for a Walloon, you take your chances.
I just read the executive order. Among other requests he’s made to the state legislature is to make the use of “tobacco products” cost prohibitive by increasing taxes.

https://www.colorado.gov/governor/sites ... rettes.pdf

Previously, I had no opinion one way or the other regarding Walloons. I wasn't sure whom among my acquaintances might be one, and in any event I wasn’t aware of having ever been done wrong by anyone of Wallonian ancestry.

Now that I have, and grievously so, I will henceforth view them with a jaundiced eye.
And I’ll likely lay in a bit more pipe tobacco before the legislature has a chance to act.
Last edited by durangopipe on Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
. . . be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you. Ephesians 4:32 (NKJV)

The most improper job of any man, even saints, is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity.. J.R.R. Tolkien

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Re: FDA Delays Deeming Regulations

Post by DAN » Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:15 pm

Heh. Colorado. Demonize tobacco and vapor, encourage doobie.
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Re: FDA Delays Deeming Regulations

Post by durangopipe » Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:18 pm

DAN wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:15 pm
Heh. Colorado. Demonize tobacco and vapor, encourage doobie.
Yes.
That’s Colorado.

What’s next?
Mandatory goat yoga?
Last edited by durangopipe on Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
. . . be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you. Ephesians 4:32 (NKJV)

The most improper job of any man, even saints, is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity.. J.R.R. Tolkien

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Re: FDA Delays Deeming Regulations

Post by hugodrax » Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:32 pm

durangopipe wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:18 pm
DAN wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:15 pm
Heh. Colorado. Demonize tobacco and vapor, encourage doobie.
Yes.
That’s Colorado.
Bad news. He's not a Walloon. He's a Dutchie. Theres trouble brewing there in Colorado.

I would rename the staff restroom in his honor, sir, in a trifling act of civic disobedience. The John Wright Hickenlooper, Jr Memorial Sitzandpooper.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: FDA Delays Deeming Regulations

Post by mont974x4 » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:37 pm

durangopipe wrote:
hugodrax wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:53 pm
durangopipe wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:31 pm
Forget the FDA, our governor is going to do us in:
“Our college president” wrote:
Dear Skyhawks,

Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper has signed an executive order that, in part, extends the current prohibition on smoking in state buildings to e-cigarettes and vaping. It also extends prohibitions on smoking and vaping to the grounds of state buildings, not just the buildings themselves (i.e. it creates smoke-free campuses) ...
My pipe smoking, hugely popular, tenured, former chair, full professor friend with over 30 of service to the college wrote me to tell me he’s writing a response to the president. I don’t know what good it will do since this comes from state govt., and we’re a state institution.

Sadly, he may well retire. He smokes to ease pain and any number of other ailments. He’s among the very best teachers/scholars at the college.

We often gather a small group of students and colleagues for conversation when we go outside for a pipe. I’ll miss that, and I know our students will as well.
You vote for a Walloon, you take your chances.
I just read the executive order. Among other requests he’s made to the state legislature is to make the use of “tobacco products” cost prohibitive by increasing taxes.

https://www.colorado.gov/governor/sites ... rettes.pdf

Previously, I had no opinion one way or the other regarding Walloons. I wasn't sure whom among my acquaintances might be one, and in any event I wasn’t aware of having ever been done wrong by anyone of Wallonian ancestry.

Now that I have, and grievously so, I will henceforth view them with a jaundiced eye.
And I’ll likely lay in a bit more pipe tobacco before the legislature has a chance to act.
This past election we had an item on the ballot for a tax increase on tobacco products. It was billed as a Medicaid expansion. The suggested tax increase would only cover, at most, half the expected cost of the expansion it was also going to be a permanent liability on the state budget. Thankfully it was soundly rejected by the voters.


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Re: FDA Delays Deeming Regulations

Post by durangopipe » Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:54 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:32 pm
durangopipe wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:18 pm
DAN wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:15 pm
Heh. Colorado. Demonize tobacco and vapor, encourage doobie.
Yes.
That’s Colorado.
Bad news. He's not a Walloon. He's a Dutchie. Theres trouble brewing there in Colorado.

I would rename the staff restroom in his honor, sir, in a trifling act of civic disobedience. The John Wright Hickenlooper, Jr Memorial Sitzandpooper.
Will doo.
. . . be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you. Ephesians 4:32 (NKJV)

The most improper job of any man, even saints, is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity.. J.R.R. Tolkien

2017 Morley - Outstanding BRATASS of the Year

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Re: FDA Delays Deeming Regulations

Post by FredS » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:02 pm

durangopipe wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:14 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:53 pm
durangopipe wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:31 pm
Forget the FDA, our governor is going to do us in:
“Our college president” wrote:
Dear Skyhawks,

Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper has signed an executive order that, in part, extends the current prohibition on smoking in state buildings to e-cigarettes and vaping. It also extends prohibitions on smoking and vaping to the grounds of state buildings, not just the buildings themselves (i.e. it creates smoke-free campuses) ...
My pipe smoking, hugely popular, tenured, former chair, full professor friend with over 30 of service to the college wrote me to tell me he’s writing a response to the president. I don’t know what good it will do since this comes from state govt., and we’re a state institution.

Sadly, he may well retire. He smokes to ease pain and any number of other ailments. He’s among the very best teachers/scholars at the college.

We often gather a small group of students and colleagues for conversation when we go outside for a pipe. I’ll miss that, and I know our students will as well.
You vote for a Walloon, you take your chances.
I just read the executive order. Among other requests he’s made to the state legislature is to make the use of “tobacco products” cost prohibitive by increasing taxes.

https://www.colorado.gov/governor/sites ... rettes.pdf

Previously, I had no opinion one way or the other regarding Walloons. I wasn't sure whom among my acquaintances might be one, and in any event I wasn’t aware of having ever been done wrong by anyone of Wallonian ancestry.

Now that I have, and grievously so, I will henceforth view them with a jaundiced eye.
And I’ll likely lay in a bit more pipe tobacco before the legislature has a chance to act.
Arrgghh. Dude's been in office eight years and he lays this bomb on his way out the door? I don't expect Polis to be any friendlier to nicotine users/addicts.
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Re: FDA Delays Deeming Regulations

Post by Bloodhound » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:41 pm

And he is making noise about running for president...we don't need that!
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Re: FDA Delays Deeming Regulations

Post by durangopipe » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:45 pm

Bloodhound wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:41 pm
And he is making noise about running for president...we don't need that!
I can’t see him getting any traction nationally.
But I’ve heard that noise, too.
. . . be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you. Ephesians 4:32 (NKJV)

The most improper job of any man, even saints, is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity.. J.R.R. Tolkien

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Re: FDA Delays Deeming Regulations

Post by Bloodhound » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:54 pm

durangopipe wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:45 pm
Bloodhound wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:41 pm
And he is making noise about running for president...we don't need that!
I can’t see him getting any traction nationally.
But I’ve heard that noise, too.
He plays coy every time it comes up...but if it doesn't come up, he "slips" and get it in there...I think you are correct about the national scene, but that doesn't stop him from grand standing in his last days...
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Re: FDA Delays Deeming Regulations

Post by hugodrax » Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:27 pm

durangopipe wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:54 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:32 pm
durangopipe wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:18 pm
DAN wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:15 pm
Heh. Colorado. Demonize tobacco and vapor, encourage doobie.
Yes.
That’s Colorado.
Bad news. He's not a Walloon. He's a Dutchie. Theres trouble brewing there in Colorado.

I would rename the staff restroom in his honor, sir, in a trifling act of civic disobedience. The John Wright Hickenlooper, Jr Memorial Sitzandpooper.
Will doo.
Very much made me giggle.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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