Pipe Cake

Pipe and other hardware related discussions
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Rusty
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Re: Pipe Cake

Post by Rusty » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:48 pm

Hovannes wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:24 pm
The best luck I've with building cake came from a 1970's edition of Esquire Magazine's What Every Young Man Should Know in the chapter entitled Young Man Smoke A Pipe
Essentially it's the Frank protocol with a thin smear of honey to start the ball rolling, and smoking a rough cut Burley to enhance the process---I found Prince Albert fills the bill. Or fills the bowl 2/3rds.
We have protocols now?
That's all myth Hov. You don't have to smear anything in the chamber. Just relight a lot. And cake occurs as a result of lighting/relighting.
You can use pretty much any blend you want. There are some that will leave a very dirty soft cake though.
Cake is a maintenance problem for many of us.

Goose is clearly concerned about the ember coming into contact with the chamber wall. I have no idea how the tobacco adjacent to the wall is burned in this Goosian nightmare. What do you think about the ember near the chamber wall?
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hugodrax
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Re: Pipe Cake

Post by hugodrax » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:54 pm

Rusty wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:48 pm
Hovannes wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:24 pm
The best luck I've with building cake came from a 1970's edition of Esquire Magazine's What Every Young Man Should Know in the chapter entitled Young Man Smoke A Pipe
Essentially it's the Frank protocol with a thin smear of honey to start the ball rolling, and smoking a rough cut Burley to enhance the process---I found Prince Albert fills the bill. Or fills the bowl 2/3rds.
We have protocols now?
That's all myth Hov. You don't have to smear anything in the chamber. Just relight a lot. And cake occurs as a result of lighting/relighting.
You can use pretty much any blend you want. There are some that will leave a very dirty soft cake though.
Cake is a maintenance problem for many of us.

Goose is clearly concerned about the ember coming into contact with the chamber wall. I have no idea how the tobacco adjacent to the wall is burned in this Goosian nightmare. What do you think about the ember near the chamber wall?
How are you coming on the freezing Rusty's ooh-oohs off in 2017 project?
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: Pipe Cake

Post by SlowToke » Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:06 pm

I believe cake is formed as a result of the byproducts of combusting tobacco that wicks to the chamber walls being baked on when the ember gets hot enough or, as Rusty says, from the heat of relights. Have you ever seen what happens when moisture from wood gets baked on the glass of a wood burning stove? Or, what forms on the inside of an oven over time? Same principle. I don't think it's rocket surgery.
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Hovannes
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Re: Pipe Cake

Post by Hovannes » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:11 am

Rusty wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:48 pm
Hovannes wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:24 pm
The best luck I've with building cake came from a 1970's edition of Esquire Magazine's What Every Young Man Should Know in the chapter entitled Young Man Smoke A Pipe
Essentially it's the Frank protocol with a thin smear of honey to start the ball rolling, and smoking a rough cut Burley to enhance the process---I found Prince Albert fills the bill. Or fills the bowl 2/3rds.
We have protocols now?
That's all myth Hov. You don't have to smear anything in the chamber. Just relight a lot. And cake occurs as a result of lighting/relighting.
You can use pretty much any blend you want. There are some that will leave a very dirty soft cake though.
Cake is a maintenance problem for many of us.

Goose is clearly concerned about the ember coming into contact with the chamber wall. I have no idea how the tobacco adjacent to the wall is burned in this Goosian nightmare. What do you think about the ember near the chamber wall?
Is time a myth then? I've built cake both ways and following the old Esquire article's advice has always built cake faster. Much faster.

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Re: Pipe Cake

Post by Goose55 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:37 am

Hovannes wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:24 pm
The best luck I've with building cake came from a 1970's edition of Esquire Magazine's What Every Young Man Should Know in the chapter entitled Young Man Smoke A Pipe
Essentially it's the Frank protocol with a thin smear of honey to start the ball rolling, and smoking a rough cut Burley to enhance the process---I found Prince Albert fills the bill. Or fills the bowl 2/3rds.
There seems to be a consensus about PA type tobaccos building cake faster. And the honey. Could that be because pipe cake is mostly carbonized sugars from the tobacco? Rusty claims that the cake is carbonized tobacco, but if that were the case, there would be no ash.
"At present we're on the wrong side of the door. But all the pages of the New Testament are rustling with the rumor that it will not always be so." ~ C.S. Lewis

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Hovannes
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Re: Pipe Cake

Post by Hovannes » Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:45 am

hugodrax wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:54 pm

We have protocols now?
I was trying to sound like a lawyer, old chap!

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Rusty
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Re: Pipe Cake

Post by Rusty » Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:39 am

Goose55 wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:37 am
Hovannes wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:24 pm
The best luck I've with building cake came from a 1970's edition of Esquire Magazine's What Every Young Man Should Know in the chapter entitled Young Man Smoke A Pipe
Essentially it's the Frank protocol with a thin smear of honey to start the ball rolling, and smoking a rough cut Burley to enhance the process---I found Prince Albert fills the bill. Or fills the bowl 2/3rds.
There seems to be a consensus about PA type tobaccos building cake faster. And the honey. Could that be because pipe cake is mostly carbonized sugars from the tobacco? Rusty claims that the cake is carbonized tobacco, but if that were the case, there would be no ash.
LOL! No ash? What are you thinking?

All I said, earlier in this thread:
Rusty wrote:I'll leave the sugar comment alone except for noting that the leaf itself is organic so it has a lot of carbon. Any sucrose/sugar is in relatively small amount compared to leaf.
I didn't exclude the sugars/sucrose from contributing. Ash (completely burned tobacco) probably contains very little free carbon but unless we submit it for analysis to a lab we're not going to know for sure on our own. There would certainly be Carbon Dioxide and Monoxide released in burning as well. Ash is apparently alkaline so it probably does contain various carbonates. There is no shortage of carbon. But claiming that cake is solely from sugar seems unlikely. That is a claim that requires evidence. I'm curious why you prefer that idea?

I think the combustion process and byproducts are likely quite complex. The location where cake forms is determined by the level of the tobaccos in the bowl at lighting/relighting. And the incidence of lighting/relighting controls the deposit of cake ie how much there is. It seems to be completely independent of the choice of tobacco. The characteristics of the cake are certainly influenced by the constituents in the tobacco. So for example BCA seems to produce a very soft cake so there is more than carbon in cake. Testing beats consensus any day. Given all the advice that is wrong all this is a surprising & interesting discovery. The curious thing is that almost nobody ever seems to point out evidence that shows what is claimed as consensus is not the case. Consensus is often misleading when generations of authoritative advice are misleading and incorrect. Creating more wrong advice through consensus seems to be counter productive to understanding the situation as it is. You weren't here when some argued that one should be waxing jars. Too many myths in this hobby.

You could probably devise an experiment to compare the amount of cake from various tobaccos. I think there's not much variation with the different blends. That seems to be my experience. You could also test the honey in the virgin bowl vs. none. What does it actually do? You could also test the association of cake with lighting/relighting. All this you could test. More testing and no appeals to consensus are preferred. Try not to fool yourself. We are the easiest to fool. That's usually the operative thing behind consensus in absence of testing.

Meanwhile, if you want to build consensus we need gender-loaded pronouns for our pipes. I'm uncomfortable with my pipes all referred to as 'it'. That's far too close to the gender-free pronouns that the nutty left are trying to apply by fiat. We're not going to take it. LOL!
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Hovannes
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Re: Pipe Cake

Post by Hovannes » Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:06 pm

Rusty wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:39 am
Too many myths in this hobby.
Why, that's part of the charm!

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Rusty
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Re: Pipe Cake

Post by Rusty » Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:11 pm

Hovannes wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:06 pm
Rusty wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:39 am
Too many myths in this hobby.
Why, that's part of the charm!
You had me in stitches laughing at the idea that you smoked a 1970 Esquire magazine. Those years were surreal so I figured you might have smoked a magazine.

Not so long ago the advice was to shake the remaining ash in the bowl and coat the chamber walls with ash for cake build up. You & Goose might test that one too.

In my early days there wasn't a lot of talk about cake. I think it's possibly because there were relatively few new pipe smokers compared to older daily smokers. There was a very real generation gap at the time. We had long hair and they didn't. We noticed that our relatively new pipes looked much different than the older guys pipes. Mostly because they really used them. That's a secret that nobody talks about. How can I make my pipes look like I use them? Well.... LOL!

For daily smokers cake is a maintenance problem. It's not something to be encouraged because it reduced the bowl capacity at least. But I never heard anyone explain why it occurs where it occurs. I did ask too. Nobody connected it with lighting/relighting. So we were told about maintaining the pipe and reaming back the growing cake. But its cause wasn't ever addressed that I remember. And we were all nuts cleaning our pipes. That's a newb thing. The 1/3 bowl technique for new pipes was recommended and of course the reasoning is wrong. The intended result doesn't occur. So the old guys that said we didn't have to do that were right. AFAIR none of them did that.

This hobby has a lot of pointless ritual.
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Goose55
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Re: Pipe Cake

Post by Goose55 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:38 pm

Rusty wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:11 pm
This hobby has a lot of pointless ritual.
Maybe. But the ritual, whatever it is, is part of the pleasure.
"At present we're on the wrong side of the door. But all the pages of the New Testament are rustling with the rumor that it will not always be so." ~ C.S. Lewis

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Re: Pipe Cake

Post by Rusty » Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:10 pm

Goose55 wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:38 pm
Rusty wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:11 pm
This hobby has a lot of pointless ritual.
Maybe. But the ritual, whatever it is, is part of the pleasure.
Tell us more. You've said interesting unconventional things. You might start with the ember and the chamber wall. That one appears to be operative already, right? The reasoning that lead to no ash / cake as sugar is also welcome.

Pipe smokers are often a little different from the average. Some of the older pipe smokers had unconventional ideas on many subjects including pipes. We used to listen to them. They were like Jocose recommending killer tobacco and they did. You're in that park. I'm probably in there too. Go ahead, you're among friends.
You're out of the woods
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Hovannes
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Re: Pipe Cake

Post by Hovannes » Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:55 pm

Rusty wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:10 pm
Goose55 wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:38 pm
Rusty wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:11 pm
This hobby has a lot of pointless ritual.
Maybe. But the ritual, whatever it is, is part of the pleasure.
Tell us more. You've said interesting unconventional things. You might start with the ember and the chamber wall. That one appears to be operative already, right? The reasoning that lead to no ash / cake as sugar is also welcome.

Pipe smokers are often a little different from the average. Some of the older pipe smokers had unconventional ideas on many subjects including pipes. We used to listen to them. They were like Jocose recommending killer tobacco and they did. You're in that park. I'm probably in there too. Go ahead, you're among friends.
A.A. Milne, as an example?
https://finetobacconyc.com/2012/12/21/s ... a-a-milne/

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