Faith in the News

For those deep thinkers out there.

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UncleBob
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Re: Faith in the News

Post by UncleBob » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:15 pm

"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

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Re: Faith in the News

Post by Del » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:57 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:22 pm
Skip wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:02 pm
wosbald wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:28 pm
+JMJ+
infidel wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:22 pm
Skip wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:40 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:37 pm
infidel wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:23 pm
Eat, pray, live: the Lagos megachurches building their very own cities
Redemption Camp has 5,000 houses, roads, rubbish collection, police, supermarkets, banks, a fun fair, a post office – even a 25 megawatt power plant. In Nigeria, the line between church and city is rapidly vanishing
Interesting. Old style feudal manor system, rewritten for the churchman to rule instead of the local lord. There might be hope for us disenfranchised types yet.
Cue Del rejoicing in 3, 2, 1, ...
I bet you could gather enough of an offering here to buy Del a one way ticket to Lagos. :cheese:
Somehow, I don't think that being governed by Protestant theocrats fits Del's template.
"Old style feudal manor system, rewritten for the churchman to rule instead of the local lord."
You people sell Del short. He'd never be governed by some tribalist convert to prosperity gospel. And he has no problem rejecting churchmen who interfere with his politics.

I'm heartily in favor of a good squireocracy, though.
I gave some thought toward emigrating to Malta, before the election....

As for the megachurches of Lagos -- If the people lack a government that is adequate to provide basic services, then it is simple charity for a local church to provide these things.

I know a Catholic priest, missionary in Tanzania, whose primary ministry was building roads. He has an antique bulldozer and an old road grader, and whenever he can afford to buy diesel fuel he is building or repairing dirt and gravel roads for the people. And then he built chapels in the villages, a school for girls, medical clinics. For over 40 years.... and even now, he refuses to retire to the Maryknoll rest home. He is depending upon his native converts to provide for his old age.

There is no government to do these things.
Last edited by Del on Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Faith in the News

Post by hugodrax » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:02 pm

Del wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:57 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:22 pm
Skip wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:02 pm
wosbald wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:28 pm
+JMJ+
infidel wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:22 pm
Skip wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:40 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:37 pm
infidel wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:23 pm
Eat, pray, live: the Lagos megachurches building their very own cities
Redemption Camp has 5,000 houses, roads, rubbish collection, police, supermarkets, banks, a fun fair, a post office – even a 25 megawatt power plant. In Nigeria, the line between church and city is rapidly vanishing
Interesting. Old style feudal manor system, rewritten for the churchman to rule instead of the local lord. There might be hope for us disenfranchised types yet.
Cue Del rejoicing in 3, 2, 1, ...
I bet you could gather enough of an offering here to buy Del a one way ticket to Lagos. :cheese:
Somehow, I don't think that being governed by Protestant theocrats fits Del's template.
"Old style feudal manor system, rewritten for the churchman to rule instead of the local lord."
You people sell Del short. He'd never be governed by some tribalist convert to prosperity gospel. And he has no problem rejecting churchmen who interfere with his politics.

I'm heartily in favor of a good squireocracy, though.
I gave some thought toward emigrating to Malta, before the election....
Invest a million, get citizenship in a tax free haven? I've heard worse ideas.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: Faith in the News

Post by Cleon » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:40 am

tuttle wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:28 am
wosbald wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:15 pm
+JMJ+

500 Years After Reformation, Many Protestants Closer to Catholics than Martin Luther
Image
Image: Thierry Ehrmann / Flickr / Martin Luther

Pew finds less than half of Protestants in many countries believe both sola fide and sola scriptura.

[…]

Today, half of American Protestants say that both good deeds and faith in God are needed to get into heaven (52%); the same number believe that in addition to the Bible, Christians need guidance from church teachings and traditions, according to two studies released today by the Pew Research Center. …

Image
I think the definition of sola scriptura as a separation from guidance via church teaching and tradition is faulty. Sola Scriptura is the idea that Scripture is the primary authority. I hold to sola scriptura and I would agree with the other 52% if using the poll's definition. Martin Luther would agree as well.

Even the question about sola fide could use some clarification.

That's not to say I don't agree with their outcome, that many Protestants don't understand what it means to be Protestant or hold to the teachings of the reformers. I'm more interested in the 7 percent of US Catholics who believe in sola scriptura and sola fide!
I'm glad this was addressed. Thanks.

I will say, though, that I find myself sympathizing more with my Roman Catholic and Orthodox brethren nowadays than a lot of my Evangelical brethren.
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Re: Faith in the News

Post by wosbald » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:21 am

+JMJ+
Cleon wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:40 am
I will say, though, that I find myself sympathizing more with my Roman Catholic and Orthodox brethren nowadays than a lot of my Evangelical brethren.
Image
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Re: Faith in the News

Post by wosbald » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:28 am

+JMJ+
Skip wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:02 pm
wosbald wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:28 pm
infidel wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:22 pm
Skip wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:40 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:37 pm
Interesting. Old style feudal manor system, rewritten for the churchman to rule instead of the local lord. There might be hope for us disenfranchised types yet.
Cue Del rejoicing in 3, 2, 1, ...
I bet you could gather enough of an offering here to buy Del a one way ticket to Lagos. :cheese:
Somehow, I don't think that being governed by Protestant theocrats fits Del's template.
"Old style feudal manor system, rewritten for the churchman to rule instead of the local lord."
Regardless, I thought that politics was verboten here.

I wonder if this seeming infraction is due to the rule being trumped by the imperative of smacking-down Del's ostensible politics. Or, rather, if it because the line twixt the "Two Kingdoms" necessarily bleeds a bit, and all the king's horses can't erase that bleeding edge.
"In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph." - Our Lady of Fatima

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Re: Faith in the News

Post by hugodrax » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:47 am

wosbald wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:28 am
+JMJ+
Skip wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:02 pm
wosbald wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:28 pm
infidel wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:22 pm
Skip wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:40 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:37 pm
Interesting. Old style feudal manor system, rewritten for the churchman to rule instead of the local lord. There might be hope for us disenfranchised types yet.
Cue Del rejoicing in 3, 2, 1, ...
I bet you could gather enough of an offering here to buy Del a one way ticket to Lagos. :cheese:
Somehow, I don't think that being governed by Protestant theocrats fits Del's template.
"Old style feudal manor system, rewritten for the churchman to rule instead of the local lord."
Regardless, I thought that politics was verboten here.

I wonder if this seeming infraction is due to the rule being trumped by the imperative of smacking-down Del's ostensible politics. Or, rather, if it because the line twixt the "Two Kingdoms" necessarily bleeds a bit, and all the king's horses can't erase that bleeding edge.
The world may never know.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: Faith in the News

Post by Del » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:56 am

hugodrax wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:47 am
wosbald wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:28 am
+JMJ+
Skip wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:02 pm
wosbald wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:28 pm
infidel wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:22 pm
Skip wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:40 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:37 pm
Interesting. Old style feudal manor system, rewritten for the churchman to rule instead of the local lord. There might be hope for us disenfranchised types yet.
Cue Del rejoicing in 3, 2, 1, ...
I bet you could gather enough of an offering here to buy Del a one way ticket to Lagos. :cheese:
Somehow, I don't think that being governed by Protestant theocrats fits Del's template.
"Old style feudal manor system, rewritten for the churchman to rule instead of the local lord."
Regardless, I thought that politics was verboten here.

I wonder if this seeming infraction is due to the rule being trumped by the imperative of smacking-down Del's ostensible politics. Or, rather, if it because the line twixt the "Two Kingdoms" necessarily bleeds a bit, and all the king's horses can't erase that bleeding edge.
The world may never know.
I hate how everything is considered "politics" now.

Discussing the medieval economic system isn't politics.
Discussing how churches in modern Africa are providing people with basic infrastructure isn't politics.

Let's celebrate whenever local families can cooperate to their common benefit through the leadership of a convenient authority.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"I shall not wear a crown of gold where my Master wore a crown of thorns." - Godfrey de Bouillon

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Re: Faith in the News

Post by hugodrax » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:28 am

Del wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:56 am
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:47 am
wosbald wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:28 am
+JMJ+
Skip wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:02 pm
wosbald wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:28 pm
infidel wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:22 pm
Skip wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:40 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:37 pm
Interesting. Old style feudal manor system, rewritten for the churchman to rule instead of the local lord. There might be hope for us disenfranchised types yet.
Cue Del rejoicing in 3, 2, 1, ...
I bet you could gather enough of an offering here to buy Del a one way ticket to Lagos. :cheese:
Somehow, I don't think that being governed by Protestant theocrats fits Del's template.
"Old style feudal manor system, rewritten for the churchman to rule instead of the local lord."
Regardless, I thought that politics was verboten here.

I wonder if this seeming infraction is due to the rule being trumped by the imperative of smacking-down Del's ostensible politics. Or, rather, if it because the line twixt the "Two Kingdoms" necessarily bleeds a bit, and all the king's horses can't erase that bleeding edge.
The world may never know.
I hate how everything is considered "politics" now.

Discussing the medieval economic system isn't politics.
Discussing how churches in modern Africa are providing people with basic infrastructure isn't politics.

Let's celebrate whenever local families can cooperate to their common benefit through the leadership of a convenient authority.
Wos was posting before he had his first cup of syphon-brewed coffee. No potato chips even. He's like the before part of a Snicker's commercial before he's had syphon-brewed coffee and esoteric potato chips.

Have a little charity. The man's had enough wedgies for one lifetime.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: Faith in the News

Post by UncleBob » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:49 pm

Bible passage used to stop women become ordained 'added later', academic claims
His analysis of the Codex Vaticanus, one of the oldest versions of the Greek Bible in existence, identifies a symbol called a "distigme-obelos", which appears next to the relevant passage.

He says scribes used these symbols to identify added text, which did not appear in the original, and identifies several other cases where they were used.

The symbol, two small dots and a dash, appears in the left margin of the text at the start of verse 34.

He also argues that the passage is inconsistent with other sections of Paul's letters to the Corinthians, such as 1 Corinthians 11:5, which says: "every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head" - suggesting that women were allowed to preach.

In his paper Dr Payne says: "This study demonstrates that scribe B was a careful textual critic who identifies 1 Cor 14.34–5, the only Bible passage silencing women in the church, as added text.
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Re: Faith in the News

Post by infidel » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:50 pm

UncleBob wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:49 pm
Bible passage used to stop women become ordained 'added later', academic claims
His analysis of the Codex Vaticanus, one of the oldest versions of the Greek Bible in existence, identifies a symbol called a "distigme-obelos", which appears next to the relevant passage.

He says scribes used these symbols to identify added text, which did not appear in the original, and identifies several other cases where they were used.

The symbol, two small dots and a dash, appears in the left margin of the text at the start of verse 34.

He also argues that the passage is inconsistent with other sections of Paul's letters to the Corinthians, such as 1 Corinthians 11:5, which says: "every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head" - suggesting that women were allowed to preach.

In his paper Dr Payne says: "This study demonstrates that scribe B was a careful textual critic who identifies 1 Cor 14.34–5, the only Bible passage silencing women in the church, as added text.
I'm sure Del is already furiously typing his dissertation on these hypothetical extrapolations :cheese:
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Re: Faith in the News

Post by Del » Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:25 pm

infidel wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:50 pm
Bible passage used to stop women become ordained 'added later', academic claims
His analysis of the Codex Vaticanus, one of the oldest versions of the Greek Bible in existence, identifies a symbol called a "distigme-obelos", which appears next to the relevant passage.

He says scribes used these symbols to identify added text, which did not appear in the original, and identifies several other cases where they were used.

The symbol, two small dots and a dash, appears in the left margin of the text at the start of verse 34.

He also argues that the passage is inconsistent with other sections of Paul's letters to the Corinthians, such as 1 Corinthians 11:5, which says: "every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head" - suggesting that women were allowed to preach.

In his paper Dr Payne says: "This study demonstrates that scribe B was a careful textual critic who identifies 1 Cor 14.34–5, the only Bible passage silencing women in the church, as added text.
I'm sure Del is already furiously typing his dissertation on these hypothetical extrapolations :cheese:
That verse is not the reason why Apostolic Christians cannot ordain women as priests of Christ.

Just as it was never the reason why Israelites could not ordain women to the Levitical priesthood.

Priesthood isn't about teaching or preaching, in the first place.
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Re: Faith in the News

Post by UncleBob » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:22 pm

"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

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Re: Faith in the News

Post by hugodrax » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:59 pm

:zzz:
The turks, eh? I'd trust a Belgian first.
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Re: Faith in the News

Post by UncleBob » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:49 pm

"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

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Re: Faith in the News

Post by UncleBob » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:13 am

"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

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Re: Faith in the News

Post by Rusty » Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:14 pm

"Religion is here to stay", "Loss of religion" - this vacillation has to stop. Either it's going away or it's staying - choose.

We went through a similar situation when our son was born. Every big event can be, and usually is, turned into a crisis when one is in a mixed family. But in fact neither of us are Jewish. Jewish in-laws presume that secular parents will simply give in and have a bris to make them happy. They even had the temerity to tell me that my opinion didn't matter. It's actually bigger than that. All the Jewish friends will say everyone does this and they predict that like everyone else we will give in. Nope. And those with the grandchild will win any battle. I articulated the 'chooser' point of view and I did realize that it was a competing worldview. It was a shock to the other side who immediately asked - how does anyone ever become Jewish with that crazy idea? Exactly.
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Re: Faith in the News

Post by UncleBob » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:10 am

CHRISTIANS LOVE PEDOPHILIA SAYS CHURCH OF SATAN
“We should probably talk about how there is a segment of evangelicalism and home-school culture where the only thing Roy Moore did wrong was initiating sexual contact outside of marriage,” Kathryn Brightbill of the Coalition for Responsible Home Education, tweeted. "14 year old girls courting adult men isn’t entirely uncommon."
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

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Re: Faith in the News

Post by hugodrax » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:00 pm

UncleBob wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:10 am
CHRISTIANS LOVE PEDOPHILIA SAYS CHURCH OF SATAN
“We should probably talk about how there is a segment of evangelicalism and home-school culture where the only thing Roy Moore did wrong was initiating sexual contact outside of marriage,” Kathryn Brightbill of the Coalition for Responsible Home Education, tweeted. "14 year old girls courting adult men isn’t entirely uncommon."
That's the most spectacularly odd article I've read recently.
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Re: Faith in the News

Post by UncleBob » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:05 am

THE RELIGION OF MUGGLES
This broad use of the term “religion” is, like my Aunt Muggle’s comment about my bohemian parents, a gibe or put-down. As such, it can never hope to convince anyone inside the so-called “religion” itself. Generations of graduate students in theology are swept off their feet by the Drama of Atheist Humanism; generations of non-Christian students are entirely unpersuaded by it. None of the dog-owners who take their “kids” to tea-parties at the School for Dogs in Lower Manhattan will ever be made to believe that they are participants in a kind of religion. It’s a bit like Rahner’s term “anonymous Christian”: No one to whom this label is assigned is likely to accept it.
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

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