Faith in the News

For those deep thinkers out there.

Moderator: tuttle

Post Reply
User avatar
Rusty
In Memoriam
Posts: 25059
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Beelzebub's Rare Tobacco Emporium

Re: Faith in the News

Post by Rusty » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:54 am

JMG wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:46 am
Rusty wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:31 am
Hey! It's Winter Solstice Day - today! 11:28 am. Paint your belly blue. Be careful which direction your blue spiral runs.
I felt kind of bad about Christianity being in decline so let me suggest an alternative that is growing and it's probably pre-christian.
You can start by celebrating Yule. I have a guide to practical matters that you can enjoy too.

Yule Rituals for beginners

This covers prayers, setting up altars, welcoming the return of the sun, etc. Lots here for the whole family. Goats are for later.

They're gonna go nuts at Stonehenge today.

Here, for the abstainers, is a more neutral approach to solstice.
The winter solstice is Thursday: 7 things to know about the shortest day of the year

If you follow the astrologers, as yet a third possible approach, we're in trouble and it's the worst day of the year.
I choose rather to celebrate the creator of all things...not the things.
Ok. If you were in PNG (are you?) I'd say you're in the S. Hemisphere and winter solstice isn't geographically appropriate for you right now. It's an ecumenical matter.
You're out of the woods
You're out of the dark
You're out of the night
Step into the sun
Step into the light

User avatar
wosbald
Crux' Cleveland Correspondent
Crux' Cleveland Correspondent
Posts: 18743
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Contact:

Re: Faith in the News

Post by wosbald » Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:48 am

+JMJ+
JMG wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:46 am
Rusty wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:31 am
Hey! It's Winter Solstice Day - today! 11:28 am. Paint your belly blue. Be careful which direction your blue spiral runs.
I felt kind of bad about Christianity being in decline so let me suggest an alternative that is growing and it's probably pre-christian.
You can start by celebrating Yule. I have a guide to practical matters that you can enjoy too.

Yule Rituals for beginners

This covers prayers, setting up altars, welcoming the return of the sun, etc. Lots here for the whole family. Goats are for later.

They're gonna go nuts at Stonehenge today.

Here, for the abstainers, is a more neutral approach to solstice.
The winter solstice is Thursday: 7 things to know about the shortest day of the year

If you follow the astrologers, as yet a third possible approach, we're in trouble and it's the worst day of the year.
I choose rather to celebrate the creator of all things...not the things.
Image




"In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph." - Our Lady of Fatima

User avatar
Del
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Posts: 36728
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: Re:

Post by Del » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:38 am

UncleB wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:39 pm
Thoth wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:28 pm
An interesting observation I heard recently which dovetails with this based on James K.A. Smith's "How (Not) To Be secular" is that we are no longer in a post-Christian era but have transition back into a pre-Christian era, with a fundemental education or knowledge of Christianity no longer a given.
Oh, they wish. The problem (for folks like Smith) is that people are less educated in theology but more aware as to the dark under belly of Christianity. This is nothing like the lies against Christians in the pre-Christian era that could be defended with evidence. Now the evidence demonstrates those kinds of evils exist.
And the supposed evidence of "evil Christians" is that they didn't vote with folks like Smith, right?
=======================================

Cigarson was a FOCUS missionary for four years.

He shared much the same observation, but they did not speak of "pre-Christian" and "post-Christian." The FOCUS missionaries talked about an Apostolic Age and an Age of Christendom. Cultures cycle slowly back and forth through these.

In an Apostolic Age, the culture is mostly pagan. The job of the Church is to evangelize and share the good news. We have to show people that they can be happier with Christ and mastery of themselves than the with decadence of secular paganism.

Eventually, the culture is converted. The work of evangelization is done by families and communities. The Church can focus on building infrastructure -- hospitals, charities, universities, monasteries.

But from time to time, social upheaval leads the culture to see Christian faith as a problem to overcome, rather than the means of progress that brought them to their present joy. French Revolution, communist revolutions, Nazis, the modern American Left.... Then the culture ceases to support the Church and its charitable endeavors, we have to let those go.

In an Apostolic Age, we have to drop back into the mode of the Apostolic Age. We build small groups of committed Christians. We encourage each other against the oppression and persecution. We practice virtue and charity in our communities. We show our joy.

The hard part is living in the cusp of change, as the society is falling apart. Just carry on, being Christian, and go down swinging!
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"I shall not wear a crown of gold where my Master wore a crown of thorns." - Godfrey de Bouillon

User avatar
Del
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Posts: 36728
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: Faith in the News

Post by Del » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:52 am

University Memo Proposes Banning Christmas, Prohibiting Celebrations With Nativity Scenes, Angels or Santa Claus

This one is funny, because the University of Minnesota quickly walked back from this story.

Original story:
Liberal political correctness has gone wild at the University of Minnesota and officials at one of the biggest universities in the United States are essentially banning Christmas. Not only that, any colors or themes or “icons” that may possible be associated with Christmas are banned as well. Even jolly ole Santa Claus gets the boot.

....

The handout, which originated from the school’s Equal Opportunity and Affirmative Action office, encouraged recipients “to recognize the holidays in ways that are respectful of the diversity of the University community.” It listed several specific examples of “religious iconography” that were inappropriate for gatherings and displays at this time of year such as: “Santa Claus, Angels, Christmas trees, Star of Bethlehem, Dreidels, Nativity scene, Bows/wrapped gifts, Menorah, Bells, Doves, Red and Green or Blue and White/Silver decoration themes (red and green are representative of the Christian tradition as blue and white/silver are for Jewish Hanukkah that is also celebrated at this time of year).”
Even images of "Santa Claus" and "bows & wrapped gifts"!

Turns out that an intersectionalist grinch was a bit zealous in her political correctness:
UPDATE:
....

The University representative stated: “There is no ‘Religious Diversity and the Holidays’ memo. The actions of a single employee, whose attempt at a diversity training session was, to be blunt, ill-advised, does not constitute a policy on the part of the University. The document in question was created by one individual as part of a session for a segment of employees within one area of the University. It was not provided by, reviewed by, or approved by the University of Minnesota...
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"I shall not wear a crown of gold where my Master wore a crown of thorns." - Godfrey de Bouillon

User avatar
Rusty
In Memoriam
Posts: 25059
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Beelzebub's Rare Tobacco Emporium

Re: Re:

Post by Rusty » Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:07 pm

Del wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:38 am
UncleB wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:39 pm
Thoth wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:28 pm
An interesting observation I heard recently which dovetails with this based on James K.A. Smith's "How (Not) To Be secular" is that we are no longer in a post-Christian era but have transition back into a pre-Christian era, with a fundemental education or knowledge of Christianity no longer a given.
Oh, they wish. The problem (for folks like Smith) is that people are less educated in theology but more aware as to the dark under belly of Christianity. This is nothing like the lies against Christians in the pre-Christian era that could be defended with evidence. Now the evidence demonstrates those kinds of evils exist.
And the supposed evidence of "evil Christians" is that they didn't vote with folks like Smith, right?
=======================================

Cigarson was a FOCUS missionary for four years.

He shared much the same observation, but they did not speak of "pre-Christian" and "post-Christian." The FOCUS missionaries talked about an Apostolic Age and an Age of Christendom. Cultures cycle slowly back and forth through these.

In an Apostolic Age, the culture is mostly pagan. The job of the Church is to evangelize and share the good news. We have to show people that they can be happier with Christ and mastery of themselves than the with decadence of secular paganism.

Eventually, the culture is converted. The work of evangelization is done by families and communities. The Church can focus on building infrastructure -- hospitals, charities, universities, monasteries.

But from time to time, social upheaval leads the culture to see Christian faith as a problem to overcome, rather than the means of progress that brought them to their present joy. French Revolution, communist revolutions, Nazis, the modern American Left.... Then the culture ceases to support the Church and its charitable endeavors, we have to let those go.

In an Apostolic Age, we have to drop back into the mode of the Apostolic Age. We build small groups of committed Christians. We encourage each other against the oppression and persecution. We practice virtue and charity in our communities. We show our joy.

The hard part is living in the cusp of change, as the society is falling apart. Just carry on, being Christian, and go down swinging!
Today, are we living in an age of Christendom or an Apostolic age?

I think the evidence is overwhelming that it's Christendom and it will be for a long time to come. This is the case for both America and Europe. Look at the demographics. On the Focus page, one of the messages cited concerns the unaffiliated being the fastest growing religious demographic in the US. But they're growing at about 1% per year presently, and that is being fed by mainline Protestants and Catholics. Their growth rate has been increasing over the last few decades but it's really slow still. Christians outnumber them by about 3 to 1. You're reacting to demographic trends that have changed little so far. There has been huge change in the culture but it can't be attributed to the unaffiliated. If the shift to a majority secular persists to an Apostolic age you won't live long enough to see it. Your sons may not see it either. We are seeing it in the most northern European countries. They're the ones that make the annual top ten happiest countries list.
You're out of the woods
You're out of the dark
You're out of the night
Step into the sun
Step into the light

User avatar
Del
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Posts: 36728
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: Re:

Post by Del » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:34 pm

Rusty wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:07 pm
Del wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:38 am
UncleB wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:39 pm
Thoth wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:28 pm
An interesting observation I heard recently which dovetails with this based on James K.A. Smith's "How (Not) To Be secular" is that we are no longer in a post-Christian era but have transition back into a pre-Christian era, with a fundemental education or knowledge of Christianity no longer a given.
Oh, they wish. The problem (for folks like Smith) is that people are less educated in theology but more aware as to the dark under belly of Christianity. This is nothing like the lies against Christians in the pre-Christian era that could be defended with evidence. Now the evidence demonstrates those kinds of evils exist.
And the supposed evidence of "evil Christians" is that they didn't vote with folks like Smith, right?
=======================================

Cigarson was a FOCUS missionary for four years.

He shared much the same observation, but they did not speak of "pre-Christian" and "post-Christian." The FOCUS missionaries talked about an Apostolic Age and an Age of Christendom. Cultures cycle slowly back and forth through these.

In an Apostolic Age, the culture is mostly pagan. The job of the Church is to evangelize and share the good news. We have to show people that they can be happier with Christ and mastery of themselves than the with decadence of secular paganism.

Eventually, the culture is converted. The work of evangelization is done by families and communities. The Church can focus on building infrastructure -- hospitals, charities, universities, monasteries.

But from time to time, social upheaval leads the culture to see Christian faith as a problem to overcome, rather than the means of progress that brought them to their present joy. French Revolution, communist revolutions, Nazis, the modern American Left.... Then the culture ceases to support the Church and its charitable endeavors, we have to let those go.

In an Apostolic Age, we have to drop back into the mode of the Apostolic Age. We build small groups of committed Christians. We encourage each other against the oppression and persecution. We practice virtue and charity in our communities. We show our joy.

The hard part is living in the cusp of change, as the society is falling apart. Just carry on, being Christian, and go down swinging!
Today, are we living in an age of Christendom or an Apostolic age?

I think the evidence is overwhelming that it's Christendom and it will be for a long time to come. This is the case for both America and Europe. Look at the demographics. On the Focus page, one of the messages cited concerns the unaffiliated being the fastest growing religious demographic in the US. But they're growing at about 1% per year presently, and that is being fed by mainline Protestants and Catholics. Their growth rate has been increasing over the last few decades but it's really slow still. Christians outnumber them by about 3 to 1. You're reacting to demographic trends that have changed little so far. There has been huge change in the culture but it can't be attributed to the unaffiliated. If the shift to a majority secular persists to an Apostolic age you won't live long enough to see it. Your sons may not see it either. We are seeing it in the most northern European countries. They're the ones that make the annual top ten happiest countries list.
I have nothing against "happy pagans." The authentically pagan worlds of ancient Greece and Rome received the Christian message as an improvement, not as a "rescue."

Hard to say what age we are in now. We seem to be in a cusp. First derivative is not in steep decline, as you have noted. But second derivative is scary.... see how fast the anti-religion sentiment has ramped up in recent years. And they have started pressing the machinery of government against us, as lawsuits to shut down charities who won't support the abortion lobby's agenda. And forcing Christian artisans to participate in public celebrations that violate our consciences.

France was an overwhelmingly Christian country, until the mood of the French Revolution swept through the culture. Then suddenly nuns in monasteries were carted to the guillotines.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"I shall not wear a crown of gold where my Master wore a crown of thorns." - Godfrey de Bouillon

User avatar
Rusty
In Memoriam
Posts: 25059
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Beelzebub's Rare Tobacco Emporium

Re: Re:

Post by Rusty » Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:02 pm

Del wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:34 pm
Rusty wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:07 pm
Del wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:38 am
UncleB wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:39 pm
Thoth wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:28 pm
An interesting observation I heard recently which dovetails with this based on James K.A. Smith's "How (Not) To Be secular" is that we are no longer in a post-Christian era but have transition back into a pre-Christian era, with a fundemental education or knowledge of Christianity no longer a given.
Oh, they wish. The problem (for folks like Smith) is that people are less educated in theology but more aware as to the dark under belly of Christianity. This is nothing like the lies against Christians in the pre-Christian era that could be defended with evidence. Now the evidence demonstrates those kinds of evils exist.
And the supposed evidence of "evil Christians" is that they didn't vote with folks like Smith, right?
=======================================

Cigarson was a FOCUS missionary for four years.

He shared much the same observation, but they did not speak of "pre-Christian" and "post-Christian." The FOCUS missionaries talked about an Apostolic Age and an Age of Christendom. Cultures cycle slowly back and forth through these.

In an Apostolic Age, the culture is mostly pagan. The job of the Church is to evangelize and share the good news. We have to show people that they can be happier with Christ and mastery of themselves than the with decadence of secular paganism.

Eventually, the culture is converted. The work of evangelization is done by families and communities. The Church can focus on building infrastructure -- hospitals, charities, universities, monasteries.

But from time to time, social upheaval leads the culture to see Christian faith as a problem to overcome, rather than the means of progress that brought them to their present joy. French Revolution, communist revolutions, Nazis, the modern American Left.... Then the culture ceases to support the Church and its charitable endeavors, we have to let those go.

In an Apostolic Age, we have to drop back into the mode of the Apostolic Age. We build small groups of committed Christians. We encourage each other against the oppression and persecution. We practice virtue and charity in our communities. We show our joy.

The hard part is living in the cusp of change, as the society is falling apart. Just carry on, being Christian, and go down swinging!
Today, are we living in an age of Christendom or an Apostolic age?

I think the evidence is overwhelming that it's Christendom and it will be for a long time to come. This is the case for both America and Europe. Look at the demographics. On the Focus page, one of the messages cited concerns the unaffiliated being the fastest growing religious demographic in the US. But they're growing at about 1% per year presently, and that is being fed by mainline Protestants and Catholics. Their growth rate has been increasing over the last few decades but it's really slow still. Christians outnumber them by about 3 to 1. You're reacting to demographic trends that have changed little so far. There has been huge change in the culture but it can't be attributed to the unaffiliated. If the shift to a majority secular persists to an Apostolic age you won't live long enough to see it. Your sons may not see it either. We are seeing it in the most northern European countries. They're the ones that make the annual top ten happiest countries list.
I have nothing against "happy pagans." The authentically pagan worlds of ancient Greece and Rome received the Christian message as an improvement, not as a "rescue."

Hard to say what age we are in now. We seem to be in a cusp. First derivative is not in steep decline, as you have noted. But second derivative is scary.... see how fast the anti-religion sentiment has ramped up in recent years. And they have started pressing the machinery of government against us, as lawsuits to shut down charities who won't support the abortion lobby's agenda. And forcing Christian artisans to participate in public celebrations that violate our consciences.
'They' are all Christians, Del. This is my point to you. "Make the cake! Make the cake!" Skip is one of them.
Del wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:34 pm
France was an overwhelmingly Christian country, until the mood of the French Revolution swept through the culture. Then suddenly nuns in monasteries were carted to the guillotines.
Just 16 of them? The history books tell us there were almost 17,000 people officially sentenced to the guillotine and executed. It is probably a significant under-estimate. For example, they managed to kill off virtually all of the experienced naval officer corp that knew how to fight the ship. The British blockaded their ports so that the uneducated replacements would remain inexperienced. It was unbelievable who they killed off in every field of endeavor. It was like beheading the country. It's a surprise to me that they left any nuns. I think you should declare victory on the Nuns. Just 16, huh. Amazing. These were all Catholics that managed to kill off the adult supervision.
You're out of the woods
You're out of the dark
You're out of the night
Step into the sun
Step into the light

User avatar
Pepik
Working as Intended
Posts: 6435
Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 9:21 am
Location: Just West of Skip
Contact:

Re: Faith in the News

Post by Pepik » Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:27 pm

Faith in the News.

Back on Topic fellows.

Image
Rgrds,
Joe


"I'm an alarmingly happy and optimistic person" - A_Morley
"I drank what?" - Socrates

User avatar
wosbald
Crux' Cleveland Correspondent
Crux' Cleveland Correspondent
Posts: 18743
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Contact:

Re: Faith in the News

Post by wosbald » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:01 am

+JMJ+

As you travel, pause and take a look at airport chapels
Image
Catholic chapel in Zaventem Brussels Airport. (Credit: Ad Meskens/Wikimedia Commons.)

[…]

How airports came to have chapels

The country’s first airport chapels were intended for staff rather than passengers and were established by Catholic leaders in the 1950s and 1960s to make sure their parishioners could attend Mass.

The first one in the United States, Our Lady of the Airways, was built by Boston Archbishop Richard J. Cushing at Logan airport in 1951 and it was explicitly meant for people working at the airport. A neon light pointed to the chapel and souvenir cards handed out at the dedication read,

“We fly to thy patronage, O Holy Mother of God; despise not our petitions in our necessities, but deliver us away from all dangers, O glorious and blessed virgin.”

[…]

Protestant chapels came later. The first was in New York - again at JFK. It was designed in the shape of a Latin cross and was joined by a Jewish synagogue in the 1960s. These chapels were located at a distance from the terminals: Passengers wishing to visit them had to go outside. They were later razed and rebuilt in different area of JFK.

[…]

By the 1990s and 2000s, single faith chapels had become a “dying breed.” Most started to welcome people from all religions. And many were transformed into spaces for reflection, or meditation for weary travelers.

[…]

Some airports, such as JFK, continue with their “Our Lady” names, indicating their faith-based origins.

Others include religious symbols and objects from a range of religious traditions. The chapel in Charlotte, North Carolina, for example, has multiple religious texts alongside prayer rugs, rosary beads and artistically rendered quotes from the world’s major religions.

[…]




"In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph." - Our Lady of Fatima

User avatar
Del
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Posts: 36728
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: Re:

Post by Del » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:27 am

Rusty wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:02 pm
Del wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:34 pm
Rusty wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:07 pm
Del wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:38 am
UncleB wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:39 pm
Thoth wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:28 pm
An interesting observation I heard recently which dovetails with this based on James K.A. Smith's "How (Not) To Be secular" is that we are no longer in a post-Christian era but have transition back into a pre-Christian era, with a fundemental education or knowledge of Christianity no longer a given.
Oh, they wish. The problem (for folks like Smith) is that people are less educated in theology but more aware as to the dark under belly of Christianity. This is nothing like the lies against Christians in the pre-Christian era that could be defended with evidence. Now the evidence demonstrates those kinds of evils exist.
And the supposed evidence of "evil Christians" is that they didn't vote with folks like Smith, right?
=======================================

Cigarson was a FOCUS missionary for four years.

He shared much the same observation, but they did not speak of "pre-Christian" and "post-Christian." The FOCUS missionaries talked about an Apostolic Age and an Age of Christendom. Cultures cycle slowly back and forth through these.

In an Apostolic Age, the culture is mostly pagan. The job of the Church is to evangelize and share the good news. We have to show people that they can be happier with Christ and mastery of themselves than the with decadence of secular paganism.

Eventually, the culture is converted. The work of evangelization is done by families and communities. The Church can focus on building infrastructure -- hospitals, charities, universities, monasteries.

But from time to time, social upheaval leads the culture to see Christian faith as a problem to overcome, rather than the means of progress that brought them to their present joy. French Revolution, communist revolutions, Nazis, the modern American Left.... Then the culture ceases to support the Church and its charitable endeavors, we have to let those go.

In an Apostolic Age, we have to drop back into the mode of the Apostolic Age. We build small groups of committed Christians. We encourage each other against the oppression and persecution. We practice virtue and charity in our communities. We show our joy.

The hard part is living in the cusp of change, as the society is falling apart. Just carry on, being Christian, and go down swinging!
Today, are we living in an age of Christendom or an Apostolic age?

I think the evidence is overwhelming that it's Christendom and it will be for a long time to come. This is the case for both America and Europe. Look at the demographics. On the Focus page, one of the messages cited concerns the unaffiliated being the fastest growing religious demographic in the US. But they're growing at about 1% per year presently, and that is being fed by mainline Protestants and Catholics. Their growth rate has been increasing over the last few decades but it's really slow still. Christians outnumber them by about 3 to 1. You're reacting to demographic trends that have changed little so far. There has been huge change in the culture but it can't be attributed to the unaffiliated. If the shift to a majority secular persists to an Apostolic age you won't live long enough to see it. Your sons may not see it either. We are seeing it in the most northern European countries. They're the ones that make the annual top ten happiest countries list.
I have nothing against "happy pagans." The authentically pagan worlds of ancient Greece and Rome received the Christian message as an improvement, not as a "rescue."

Hard to say what age we are in now. We seem to be in a cusp. First derivative is not in steep decline, as you have noted. But second derivative is scary.... see how fast the anti-religion sentiment has ramped up in recent years. And they have started pressing the machinery of government against us, as lawsuits to shut down charities who won't support the abortion lobby's agenda. And forcing Christian artisans to participate in public celebrations that violate our consciences.
'They' are all Christians, Del. This is my point to you. "Make the cake! Make the cake!" Skip is one of them.
Del wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:34 pm
France was an overwhelmingly Christian country, until the mood of the French Revolution swept through the culture. Then suddenly nuns in monasteries were carted to the guillotines.
Just 16 of them? The history books tell us there were almost 17,000 people officially sentenced to the guillotine and executed. It is probably a significant under-estimate. For example, they managed to kill off virtually all of the experienced naval officer corp that knew how to fight the ship. The British blockaded their ports so that the uneducated replacements would remain inexperienced. It was unbelievable who they killed off in every field of endeavor. It was like beheading the country. It's a surprise to me that they left any nuns. I think you should declare victory on the Nuns. Just 16, huh. Amazing. These were all Catholics that managed to kill off the adult supervision.
I miss Rusty so very much.

Yes, Rusty.... When the Christians turn against Christians, it comes like an avalanche.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"I shall not wear a crown of gold where my Master wore a crown of thorns." - Godfrey de Bouillon

User avatar
hugodrax
All Around Nice Guy
All Around Nice Guy
Posts: 16268
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:00 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: Re:

Post by hugodrax » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:47 am

Del wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:27 am
Rusty wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:02 pm
Del wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:34 pm
Rusty wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:07 pm
Del wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:38 am
UncleB wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:39 pm
Thoth wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:28 pm
An interesting observation I heard recently which dovetails with this based on James K.A. Smith's "How (Not) To Be secular" is that we are no longer in a post-Christian era but have transition back into a pre-Christian era, with a fundemental education or knowledge of Christianity no longer a given.
Oh, they wish. The problem (for folks like Smith) is that people are less educated in theology but more aware as to the dark under belly of Christianity. This is nothing like the lies against Christians in the pre-Christian era that could be defended with evidence. Now the evidence demonstrates those kinds of evils exist.
And the supposed evidence of "evil Christians" is that they didn't vote with folks like Smith, right?
=======================================

Cigarson was a FOCUS missionary for four years.

He shared much the same observation, but they did not speak of "pre-Christian" and "post-Christian." The FOCUS missionaries talked about an Apostolic Age and an Age of Christendom. Cultures cycle slowly back and forth through these.

In an Apostolic Age, the culture is mostly pagan. The job of the Church is to evangelize and share the good news. We have to show people that they can be happier with Christ and mastery of themselves than the with decadence of secular paganism.

Eventually, the culture is converted. The work of evangelization is done by families and communities. The Church can focus on building infrastructure -- hospitals, charities, universities, monasteries.

But from time to time, social upheaval leads the culture to see Christian faith as a problem to overcome, rather than the means of progress that brought them to their present joy. French Revolution, communist revolutions, Nazis, the modern American Left.... Then the culture ceases to support the Church and its charitable endeavors, we have to let those go.

In an Apostolic Age, we have to drop back into the mode of the Apostolic Age. We build small groups of committed Christians. We encourage each other against the oppression and persecution. We practice virtue and charity in our communities. We show our joy.

The hard part is living in the cusp of change, as the society is falling apart. Just carry on, being Christian, and go down swinging!
Today, are we living in an age of Christendom or an Apostolic age?

I think the evidence is overwhelming that it's Christendom and it will be for a long time to come. This is the case for both America and Europe. Look at the demographics. On the Focus page, one of the messages cited concerns the unaffiliated being the fastest growing religious demographic in the US. But they're growing at about 1% per year presently, and that is being fed by mainline Protestants and Catholics. Their growth rate has been increasing over the last few decades but it's really slow still. Christians outnumber them by about 3 to 1. You're reacting to demographic trends that have changed little so far. There has been huge change in the culture but it can't be attributed to the unaffiliated. If the shift to a majority secular persists to an Apostolic age you won't live long enough to see it. Your sons may not see it either. We are seeing it in the most northern European countries. They're the ones that make the annual top ten happiest countries list.
I have nothing against "happy pagans." The authentically pagan worlds of ancient Greece and Rome received the Christian message as an improvement, not as a "rescue."

Hard to say what age we are in now. We seem to be in a cusp. First derivative is not in steep decline, as you have noted. But second derivative is scary.... see how fast the anti-religion sentiment has ramped up in recent years. And they have started pressing the machinery of government against us, as lawsuits to shut down charities who won't support the abortion lobby's agenda. And forcing Christian artisans to participate in public celebrations that violate our consciences.
'They' are all Christians, Del. This is my point to you. "Make the cake! Make the cake!" Skip is one of them.
Del wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:34 pm
France was an overwhelmingly Christian country, until the mood of the French Revolution swept through the culture. Then suddenly nuns in monasteries were carted to the guillotines.
Just 16 of them? The history books tell us there were almost 17,000 people officially sentenced to the guillotine and executed. It is probably a significant under-estimate. For example, they managed to kill off virtually all of the experienced naval officer corp that knew how to fight the ship. The British blockaded their ports so that the uneducated replacements would remain inexperienced. It was unbelievable who they killed off in every field of endeavor. It was like beheading the country. It's a surprise to me that they left any nuns. I think you should declare victory on the Nuns. Just 16, huh. Amazing. These were all Catholics that managed to kill off the adult supervision.
I miss Rusty so very much.

Yes, Rusty.... When the Christians turn against Christians, it comes like an avalanche.
Do you know, my last unread pm to him was giving him hell for this post. You're making a hero of an Orangeman.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

User avatar
Del
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Posts: 36728
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: Re:

Post by Del » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:39 am

hugodrax wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:47 am
Del wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:27 am
Rusty wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:02 pm
Del wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:34 pm
Rusty wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:07 pm
Del wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:38 am
UncleB wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:39 pm
Thoth wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:28 pm
An interesting observation I heard recently which dovetails with this based on James K.A. Smith's "How (Not) To Be secular" is that we are no longer in a post-Christian era but have transition back into a pre-Christian era, with a fundemental education or knowledge of Christianity no longer a given.
Oh, they wish. The problem (for folks like Smith) is that people are less educated in theology but more aware as to the dark under belly of Christianity. This is nothing like the lies against Christians in the pre-Christian era that could be defended with evidence. Now the evidence demonstrates those kinds of evils exist.
And the supposed evidence of "evil Christians" is that they didn't vote with folks like Smith, right?
=======================================

Cigarson was a FOCUS missionary for four years.

He shared much the same observation, but they did not speak of "pre-Christian" and "post-Christian." The FOCUS missionaries talked about an Apostolic Age and an Age of Christendom. Cultures cycle slowly back and forth through these.

In an Apostolic Age, the culture is mostly pagan. The job of the Church is to evangelize and share the good news. We have to show people that they can be happier with Christ and mastery of themselves than the with decadence of secular paganism.

Eventually, the culture is converted. The work of evangelization is done by families and communities. The Church can focus on building infrastructure -- hospitals, charities, universities, monasteries.

But from time to time, social upheaval leads the culture to see Christian faith as a problem to overcome, rather than the means of progress that brought them to their present joy. French Revolution, communist revolutions, Nazis, the modern American Left.... Then the culture ceases to support the Church and its charitable endeavors, we have to let those go.

In an Apostolic Age, we have to drop back into the mode of the Apostolic Age. We build small groups of committed Christians. We encourage each other against the oppression and persecution. We practice virtue and charity in our communities. We show our joy.

The hard part is living in the cusp of change, as the society is falling apart. Just carry on, being Christian, and go down swinging!
Today, are we living in an age of Christendom or an Apostolic age?

I think the evidence is overwhelming that it's Christendom and it will be for a long time to come. This is the case for both America and Europe. Look at the demographics. On the Focus page, one of the messages cited concerns the unaffiliated being the fastest growing religious demographic in the US. But they're growing at about 1% per year presently, and that is being fed by mainline Protestants and Catholics. Their growth rate has been increasing over the last few decades but it's really slow still. Christians outnumber them by about 3 to 1. You're reacting to demographic trends that have changed little so far. There has been huge change in the culture but it can't be attributed to the unaffiliated. If the shift to a majority secular persists to an Apostolic age you won't live long enough to see it. Your sons may not see it either. We are seeing it in the most northern European countries. They're the ones that make the annual top ten happiest countries list.
I have nothing against "happy pagans." The authentically pagan worlds of ancient Greece and Rome received the Christian message as an improvement, not as a "rescue."

Hard to say what age we are in now. We seem to be in a cusp. First derivative is not in steep decline, as you have noted. But second derivative is scary.... see how fast the anti-religion sentiment has ramped up in recent years. And they have started pressing the machinery of government against us, as lawsuits to shut down charities who won't support the abortion lobby's agenda. And forcing Christian artisans to participate in public celebrations that violate our consciences.
'They' are all Christians, Del. This is my point to you. "Make the cake! Make the cake!" Skip is one of them.
Del wrote:
Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:34 pm
France was an overwhelmingly Christian country, until the mood of the French Revolution swept through the culture. Then suddenly nuns in monasteries were carted to the guillotines.
Just 16 of them? The history books tell us there were almost 17,000 people officially sentenced to the guillotine and executed. It is probably a significant under-estimate. For example, they managed to kill off virtually all of the experienced naval officer corp that knew how to fight the ship. The British blockaded their ports so that the uneducated replacements would remain inexperienced. It was unbelievable who they killed off in every field of endeavor. It was like beheading the country. It's a surprise to me that they left any nuns. I think you should declare victory on the Nuns. Just 16, huh. Amazing. These were all Catholics that managed to kill off the adult supervision.
I miss Rusty so very much.

Yes, Rusty.... When the Christians turn against Christians, it comes like an avalanche.
Do you know, my last unread pm to him was giving him hell for this post. You're making a hero of an Orangeman.
This post was some classic trollery. Rusty was a master of the art. I enjoyed him very much, because there was never any malice in him.

Rusty believed fervently in "progress" -- the dogma that changes in human societies are always for the better. If a Christian culture is throwing off its Christian behavior, then whatever follows must be better somehow. This is why he always rejoiced at news polls showing a drop in faith and church attendance.

I do not share his faith. I prefer hard evidence. In the record of history, whenever a culture threw away its Christian foundation... whatever followed was much worse.

Those 16 nuns who went to the guillotine are historically important. Like Ann Frank, they put a human face on the tragic holocaust of the Reign of Terror. Innocent and harmless, living quietly in their monastery, there was no reason why they had to die.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"I shall not wear a crown of gold where my Master wore a crown of thorns." - Godfrey de Bouillon

User avatar
wosbald
Crux' Cleveland Correspondent
Crux' Cleveland Correspondent
Posts: 18743
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Contact:

Re: Faith in the News

Post by wosbald » Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:11 pm

+JMJ+

Ten Commandments monument attracts Texas shoppers, not protesters
Image
Music City Mall Lewisville general manager Richard Morton unveils a stone tablet that displays the Ten Commandments on Dec. 29, 2017, in Lewisville, Texas. Photo courtesy of Music City Mall Lewisville

(RNS) — Ten Commandment monuments erected in Alabama, Oklahoma and New Mexico have brought lawsuits and removals.

But when an 800-pound granite tablet engraved with “Thou shalts” and “Thou shalt nots” went up in a suburban Dallas shopping mall just before New Year’s, not a protester was in sight.

The difference, of course, is location, location, location. The controversial tablets were originally placed on public land, while the Texas tablets are in a privately owned shopping mall.

“We’re not trying to make a statement or create a controversy,” Richard Morton, general manager of the Music City Mall at Vista Ridge, told Texas reporters Friday (Dec. 29) as the block was unveiled. Instead, he said, the monument reflects the mall owner’s “belief system and he is not afraid to share it.”

[…]

Local non-Christians have, so far, not objected publicly. Dallas is among the most Christian U.S. cities, with a population that is 78 percent Christian and with 18 percent who claim to have no religious affiliation, according to the Pew Research Center. Adherents of non-Christian faiths make up just 4 percent of Dallas-area residents.

But the tablets have inspired numerous comments on the blogosphere. Hemant Mehta, an atheist author and advocate with the popular Friendly Atheist blog, wrote of owner Bushman: “He would’ve been better off just putting up a sign saying ‘Thou shalt not steal’ and leaving it at that. Instead, he used his faith to create a spectacle, to drum up publicity, to make more money. Just like Jesus wanted.”

Gary Randall, who writes for the blog Faith and Freedom, praised the monument. “(I)t is the basis for the legal system in America, the most free, prosperous, blessed and exceptional nation in the history of the world, even though secularists claim the Commandments are ‘not’ the basis for our laws,” he wrote.

[…]




"In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph." - Our Lady of Fatima

User avatar
wosbald
Crux' Cleveland Correspondent
Crux' Cleveland Correspondent
Posts: 18743
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Contact:

Re: Faith in the News

Post by wosbald » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:50 am

+JMJ+

Ecumenical, interfaith experts in Rome ponder promise and perils of division
Image
Vasudha Narayanan, religion professor at the University of Florida, speaks at the conference, ‘The Whole is Greater than Its Parts: Christian Unity and Interreligious Encounter Today’ in Rome, Jan. 9, 2018. (Credit: Claire Giangrave.)

ROME – Participants at a global conference in Rome this week on ecumenism and interreligious dialogue pondered both the promise and peril of divisions within different Christian and religious traditions, not just among them, acknowledging those tensions often get in the way of forging closer ties, but also insisting they have an upside.

One expert went so far as to issue a rule of thumb for understanding another tradition — don’t focus just on where that tradition is compact, he said, but also where people are fighting among themselves.

It’s important that “each religion participating in dialogue acknowledge its vulnerabilities and inner tensions, and for the other partner to be attentive to the tensions and disagreements in its own culture and the other,” said Robert Gimello, Research Professor of Theology and East Asian Languages & Cultures at the University of Notre Dame.

The discussion came as part of a second installment at an international conference called ‘The Whole is Greater than Its Parts: Christian Unity and Interreligious Encounter Today’, organized by the World Religions World Church (WRWC) program of the University of Notre Dame and staged at Notre Dame’s Global Gateway facility in Rome.

Church leaders, theologians, and scholars of global religions from various parts of the world came to Rome Jan. 8-10 to address the most pressing matters regarding dialogue between the Church and other religions, including Muslim/Christian tensions, international ecumenical models such as India and ongoing debates in Christianity over a whole variety of matters.

[…]




"In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph." - Our Lady of Fatima

User avatar
hugodrax
All Around Nice Guy
All Around Nice Guy
Posts: 16268
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:00 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: Faith in the News

Post by hugodrax » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:56 pm

wosbald wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:50 am
+JMJ+

Ecumenical, interfaith experts in Rome ponder promise and perils of division
Image
Vasudha Narayanan, religion professor at the University of Florida, speaks at the conference, ‘The Whole is Greater than Its Parts: Christian Unity and Interreligious Encounter Today’ in Rome, Jan. 9, 2018. (Credit: Claire Giangrave.)

ROME – Participants at a global conference in Rome this week on ecumenism and interreligious dialogue pondered both the promise and peril of divisions within different Christian and religious traditions, not just among them, acknowledging those tensions often get in the way of forging closer ties, but also insisting they have an upside.

One expert went so far as to issue a rule of thumb for understanding another tradition — don’t focus just on where that tradition is compact, he said, but also where people are fighting among themselves.

It’s important that “each religion participating in dialogue acknowledge its vulnerabilities and inner tensions, and for the other partner to be attentive to the tensions and disagreements in its own culture and the other,” said Robert Gimello, Research Professor of Theology and East Asian Languages & Cultures at the University of Notre Dame.

The discussion came as part of a second installment at an international conference called ‘The Whole is Greater than Its Parts: Christian Unity and Interreligious Encounter Today’, organized by the World Religions World Church (WRWC) program of the University of Notre Dame and staged at Notre Dame’s Global Gateway facility in Rome.

Church leaders, theologians, and scholars of global religions from various parts of the world came to Rome Jan. 8-10 to address the most pressing matters regarding dialogue between the Church and other religions, including Muslim/Christian tensions, international ecumenical models such as India and ongoing debates in Christianity over a whole variety of matters.

[…]
Well, that was just stupid. Man, you're boring. Like, really, really boring.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

User avatar
Del
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Posts: 36728
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: Faith in the News

Post by Del » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:28 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:56 pm
wosbald wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:50 am
+JMJ+

Ecumenical, interfaith experts in Rome ponder promise and perils of division
Image
Vasudha Narayanan, religion professor at the University of Florida, speaks at the conference, ‘The Whole is Greater than Its Parts: Christian Unity and Interreligious Encounter Today’ in Rome, Jan. 9, 2018. (Credit: Claire Giangrave.)

ROME – Participants at a global conference in Rome this week on ecumenism and interreligious dialogue pondered both the promise and peril of divisions within different Christian and religious traditions, not just among them, acknowledging those tensions often get in the way of forging closer ties, but also insisting they have an upside.

One expert went so far as to issue a rule of thumb for understanding another tradition — don’t focus just on where that tradition is compact, he said, but also where people are fighting among themselves.

It’s important that “each religion participating in dialogue acknowledge its vulnerabilities and inner tensions, and for the other partner to be attentive to the tensions and disagreements in its own culture and the other,” said Robert Gimello, Research Professor of Theology and East Asian Languages & Cultures at the University of Notre Dame.

The discussion came as part of a second installment at an international conference called ‘The Whole is Greater than Its Parts: Christian Unity and Interreligious Encounter Today’, organized by the World Religions World Church (WRWC) program of the University of Notre Dame and staged at Notre Dame’s Global Gateway facility in Rome.

Church leaders, theologians, and scholars of global religions from various parts of the world came to Rome Jan. 8-10 to address the most pressing matters regarding dialogue between the Church and other religions, including Muslim/Christian tensions, international ecumenical models such as India and ongoing debates in Christianity over a whole variety of matters.

[…]
Well, that was just stupid. Man, you're boring. Like, really, really boring.
I skipped over this one, because it looked boring.

But then hugo posted about how boring it was, and so I had to go back and check... just to make sure.

And dang if I wasn't right the first time. Really boring. I normally trust hugo -- I should do so, even when he agrees with me.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"I shall not wear a crown of gold where my Master wore a crown of thorns." - Godfrey de Bouillon

User avatar
hugodrax
All Around Nice Guy
All Around Nice Guy
Posts: 16268
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:00 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: Faith in the News

Post by hugodrax » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:08 pm

Del wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:28 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:56 pm
wosbald wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:50 am
+JMJ+

Ecumenical, interfaith experts in Rome ponder promise and perils of division
Image
Vasudha Narayanan, religion professor at the University of Florida, speaks at the conference, ‘The Whole is Greater than Its Parts: Christian Unity and Interreligious Encounter Today’ in Rome, Jan. 9, 2018. (Credit: Claire Giangrave.)

ROME – Participants at a global conference in Rome this week on ecumenism and interreligious dialogue pondered both the promise and peril of divisions within different Christian and religious traditions, not just among them, acknowledging those tensions often get in the way of forging closer ties, but also insisting they have an upside.

One expert went so far as to issue a rule of thumb for understanding another tradition — don’t focus just on where that tradition is compact, he said, but also where people are fighting among themselves.

It’s important that “each religion participating in dialogue acknowledge its vulnerabilities and inner tensions, and for the other partner to be attentive to the tensions and disagreements in its own culture and the other,” said Robert Gimello, Research Professor of Theology and East Asian Languages & Cultures at the University of Notre Dame.

The discussion came as part of a second installment at an international conference called ‘The Whole is Greater than Its Parts: Christian Unity and Interreligious Encounter Today’, organized by the World Religions World Church (WRWC) program of the University of Notre Dame and staged at Notre Dame’s Global Gateway facility in Rome.

Church leaders, theologians, and scholars of global religions from various parts of the world came to Rome Jan. 8-10 to address the most pressing matters regarding dialogue between the Church and other religions, including Muslim/Christian tensions, international ecumenical models such as India and ongoing debates in Christianity over a whole variety of matters.

[…]
Well, that was just stupid. Man, you're boring. Like, really, really boring.
I skipped over this one, because it looked boring.

But then hugo posted about how boring it was, and so I had to go back and check... just to make sure.

And dang if I wasn't right the first time. Really boring. I normally trust hugo -- I should do so, even when he agrees with me.
Yeah, it was boring. Pointless, too. Of absolutely no interest to any rational person.

I should bill Wosbald for my time.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

User avatar
Del
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Posts: 36728
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: Faith in the News

Post by Del » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:17 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:08 pm
Del wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:28 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:56 pm
wosbald wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:50 am
+JMJ+

Ecumenical, interfaith experts in Rome ponder promise and perils of division
Image
Vasudha Narayanan, religion professor at the University of Florida, speaks at the conference, ‘The Whole is Greater than Its Parts: Christian Unity and Interreligious Encounter Today’ in Rome, Jan. 9, 2018. (Credit: Claire Giangrave.)

ROME – Participants at a global conference in Rome this week on ecumenism and interreligious dialogue pondered both the promise and peril of divisions within different Christian and religious traditions, not just among them, acknowledging those tensions often get in the way of forging closer ties, but also insisting they have an upside.

One expert went so far as to issue a rule of thumb for understanding another tradition — don’t focus just on where that tradition is compact, he said, but also where people are fighting among themselves.

It’s important that “each religion participating in dialogue acknowledge its vulnerabilities and inner tensions, and for the other partner to be attentive to the tensions and disagreements in its own culture and the other,” said Robert Gimello, Research Professor of Theology and East Asian Languages & Cultures at the University of Notre Dame.

The discussion came as part of a second installment at an international conference called ‘The Whole is Greater than Its Parts: Christian Unity and Interreligious Encounter Today’, organized by the World Religions World Church (WRWC) program of the University of Notre Dame and staged at Notre Dame’s Global Gateway facility in Rome.

Church leaders, theologians, and scholars of global religions from various parts of the world came to Rome Jan. 8-10 to address the most pressing matters regarding dialogue between the Church and other religions, including Muslim/Christian tensions, international ecumenical models such as India and ongoing debates in Christianity over a whole variety of matters.

[…]
Well, that was just stupid. Man, you're boring. Like, really, really boring.
I skipped over this one, because it looked boring.

But then hugo posted about how boring it was, and so I had to go back and check... just to make sure.

And dang if I wasn't right the first time. Really boring. I normally trust hugo -- I should do so, even when he agrees with me.
Yeah, it was boring. Pointless, too. Of absolutely no interest to any rational person.

I should bill Wosbald for my time.
Are you down for some class action action?
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"I shall not wear a crown of gold where my Master wore a crown of thorns." - Godfrey de Bouillon

User avatar
wosbald
Crux' Cleveland Correspondent
Crux' Cleveland Correspondent
Posts: 18743
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Contact:

Re: Faith in the News

Post by wosbald » Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:45 pm

+JMJ+

Pope Francis to Christians: Our common Baptism unites us
Image
Pope Francis. Credit: Hannah Brockhaus/CNA.

Vatican City, Jan 25, 2018 / 10:51 am (CNA/EWTN News).- At an ecumenical Vespers service Thursday, Pope Francis told members of several Christian communities that the grace of Baptism creates a unity in the family of God.

Even when differences separate us, we can recognize that we have the same Baptism, and we belong “to the same family of brothers and sisters loved by the one Father,” the Pope said Jan. 25.

“This is our experience as believers. As we grow in spiritual life, we increasingly understand that grace reaches us together with others and is to be shared with others. So, when I raise my thanksgiving to God for what he has done in me, I find I do not sing alone, because other brothers and sisters have my same song of praise.”

[…]

“Many ancient Fathers understood this liberating passage [the Red Sea event] as an image of Baptism,” Francis explained. “It is our sins that have been drowned by God in the living waters of Baptism.”

“Much more than Egypt, sin threatened to make us slaves forever, but the power of divine love overwhelmed it.” He also said that St. Augustine interpreted the Red Sea as an anticipatory sign of the blood of “Christ crucified, source of salvation.”

All of us Christians have passed through the waters of Baptism, and the grace of the Sacrament has destroyed our enemies, sin and death,” he emphasized.

[…]

In the last 100 years, the different Christian confessions have realized that we are standing together on the same shores of the Red Sea, he continued. We have all been saved through our Baptism, and can sing a grateful song of praise together.

[…]




"In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph." - Our Lady of Fatima

User avatar
UncleBob
CPS Theological Dogmatician
CPS Theological Dogmatician
Posts: 33753
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:00 pm
Location: Lubbock, TX USA
Contact:

Re: Faith in the News

Post by UncleBob » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:07 am

"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

Post Reply