Faith in the News

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wosbald
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Re: Faith in the News

Post by wosbald » Mon May 04, 2020 10:37 pm

+JMJ+

Bishops criticize actions of their predecessors in Nazi Germany
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Limburg Bishop Georg Batzing, president of the German bishops' conference, is pictured in a 2019 photo. (Credit: Harald Oppitz/KNA via CNS)

BONN, Germany — The Catholic bishops in Germany have marked the upcoming 75th anniversary of the end of World War II by issuing a statement criticizing the behavior of their predecessors under the Nazis.

The statement presented April 29 said that, during the Nazi regime, the bishops did not oppose the war of annihilation started by Germany or the crimes the regime committed, and that they gave the war a religious meaning, reported the German Catholic news agency KNA.

Bishop Georg Batzing, president of the German bishops’ conference, said critics had accused the church of failing not only to remember its role, but also of not owning up to it.

Presenting the bishops’ statement at a video news conference, he said: “We must not sit back, but carry the legacy into the future. This is all the more true given that Europe does not seem to be in a good state at the moment.”

Batzing added that the “old demon of division, nationalism, ‘ethnic’ thinking and authoritarian rule” was raising its head in many places. “Terrifying anti-Semitism is widespread, even here in Germany.”

He said anyone who has learned the lessons of history must vehemently oppose these tendencies. “This applies without ifs and buts to the church, which is committed to the gospel of peace and justice.”

[…]

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"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: Faith in the News

Post by wosbald » Tue May 05, 2020 2:59 pm

+JMJ+

Cardinal: Christians, Muslims can protect places of worship together
Image
Muslim men wearing masks offer prayers at a mosque on the first Friday of Ramadan, May 1, 2020, during the coronavirus pandemic in New Delhi. A Vatican official said Christians and Muslims can protect places of worship together. (Credit: Anushree Fadnavis/Reuters via CNS)

ROME — Christian and Muslim communities can work together to safeguard places of worship, thereby helping guarantee the freedom to profess one’s own belief, said the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue’s annual message to Muslims for the end of Ramadan.

Cardinal Miguel Angel Ayuso Guixot, president of the council, also said he was wishing and praying “that Christians and Muslims, united in a spirit of fraternity, demonstrate solidarity” with all of humanity, affected as it has been by the coronavirus.

In a separate note added to the annual message, which had been written before the spread of the COVID-19 pandemic, he asked Christians and Muslims to pray that God would protect “every human being,” and, especially, pray “for the healing of the afflicted and for the grace for all to overcome these difficult moments.”

The annual message to Muslims for the month of Ramadan and Eid al-Fitr, the feast marking the end of the monthlong Ramadan fast, was published by the Vatican May 1. Ramadan began April 24 and will end on or around May 23 this year.

The message was titled, “Christians and Muslims: Protecting together the places of worship,” and it was also signed by the council’s secretary, Msgr. Indunil Janakaratne Kodithuwakku Kankanamalage.

Places of worship hold an important place in Christianity, Islam and other religions as well, the message said.

They have also been an important place to show “spiritual hospitality, where believers of other religions also join for some special ceremonies like weddings, funerals, feasts of the community,” it said.

Guests show due respect to the religious observances of others as well as “savor the hospitality accorded to them. Such practice is a privileged witness to what unites believers, without diminishing or denying what distinguishes them,” the message said.

However, “in the context of recent attacks on churches, mosques and synagogues by wicked persons who seem to perceive the places of worship as a privileged target for their blind and senseless violence, it is worth noting” what was said in the document on “Human Fraternity for World Peace and Living Together.”

Signed by Pope Francis and Sheikh Ahmad el-Tayeb, grand imam of al-Azhar, in 2019, the document said “the protection of places of worship — synagogues, churches and mosques — is a duty guaranteed by religions, human values, laws and international agreements.

“Every attempt to attack places of worship or threaten them by violent assaults, bombings or destruction, is a deviation from the teachings of religions as well as a clear violation of international law,” said document, cited in the message.

[…]

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: Faith in the News

Post by hugodrax » Tue May 05, 2020 3:11 pm

wosbald wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 2:59 pm
+JMJ+

Cardinal: Christians, Muslims can protect places of worship together
Image
Muslim men wearing masks offer prayers at a mosque on the first Friday of Ramadan, May 1, 2020, during the coronavirus pandemic in New Delhi. A Vatican official said Christians and Muslims can protect places of worship together. (Credit: Anushree Fadnavis/Reuters via CNS)

ROME — Christian and Muslim communities can work together to safeguard places of worship, thereby helping guarantee the freedom to profess one’s own belief, said the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue’s annual message to Muslims for the end of Ramadan.

Cardinal Miguel Angel Ayuso Guixot, president of the council, also said he was wishing and praying “that Christians and Muslims, united in a spirit of fraternity, demonstrate solidarity” with all of humanity, affected as it has been by the coronavirus.

In a separate note added to the annual message, which had been written before the spread of the COVID-19 pandemic, he asked Christians and Muslims to pray that God would protect “every human being,” and, especially, pray “for the healing of the afflicted and for the grace for all to overcome these difficult moments.”

The annual message to Muslims for the month of Ramadan and Eid al-Fitr, the feast marking the end of the monthlong Ramadan fast, was published by the Vatican May 1. Ramadan began April 24 and will end on or around May 23 this year.

The message was titled, “Christians and Muslims: Protecting together the places of worship,” and it was also signed by the council’s secretary, Msgr. Indunil Janakaratne Kodithuwakku Kankanamalage.

Places of worship hold an important place in Christianity, Islam and other religions as well, the message said.

They have also been an important place to show “spiritual hospitality, where believers of other religions also join for some special ceremonies like weddings, funerals, feasts of the community,” it said.

Guests show due respect to the religious observances of others as well as “savor the hospitality accorded to them. Such practice is a privileged witness to what unites believers, without diminishing or denying what distinguishes them,” the message said.

However, “in the context of recent attacks on churches, mosques and synagogues by wicked persons who seem to perceive the places of worship as a privileged target for their blind and senseless violence, it is worth noting” what was said in the document on “Human Fraternity for World Peace and Living Together.”

Signed by Pope Francis and Sheikh Ahmad el-Tayeb, grand imam of al-Azhar, in 2019, the document said “the protection of places of worship — synagogues, churches and mosques — is a duty guaranteed by religions, human values, laws and international agreements.

“Every attempt to attack places of worship or threaten them by violent assaults, bombings or destruction, is a deviation from the teachings of religions as well as a clear violation of international law,” said document, cited in the message.

[…]
While theoretically possible, statistically very improbable.

Many, many Christians would indicate this has not been their experience. I say "would indicate" because they cannot affirm or deny his statement on account of they're %fracking well dead.
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth
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non nobis, Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam

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Re: Faith in the News

Post by tuttle » Wed May 06, 2020 6:38 am

hugodrax wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 3:11 pm
wosbald wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 2:59 pm
+JMJ+

Cardinal: Christians, Muslims can protect places of worship together
Image
Muslim men wearing masks offer prayers at a mosque on the first Friday of Ramadan, May 1, 2020, during the coronavirus pandemic in New Delhi. A Vatican official said Christians and Muslims can protect places of worship together. (Credit: Anushree Fadnavis/Reuters via CNS)

ROME — Christian and Muslim communities can work together to safeguard places of worship, thereby helping guarantee the freedom to profess one’s own belief, said the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue’s annual message to Muslims for the end of Ramadan.

Cardinal Miguel Angel Ayuso Guixot, president of the council, also said he was wishing and praying “that Christians and Muslims, united in a spirit of fraternity, demonstrate solidarity” with all of humanity, affected as it has been by the coronavirus.

In a separate note added to the annual message, which had been written before the spread of the COVID-19 pandemic, he asked Christians and Muslims to pray that God would protect “every human being,” and, especially, pray “for the healing of the afflicted and for the grace for all to overcome these difficult moments.”

The annual message to Muslims for the month of Ramadan and Eid al-Fitr, the feast marking the end of the monthlong Ramadan fast, was published by the Vatican May 1. Ramadan began April 24 and will end on or around May 23 this year.

The message was titled, “Christians and Muslims: Protecting together the places of worship,” and it was also signed by the council’s secretary, Msgr. Indunil Janakaratne Kodithuwakku Kankanamalage.

Places of worship hold an important place in Christianity, Islam and other religions as well, the message said.

They have also been an important place to show “spiritual hospitality, where believers of other religions also join for some special ceremonies like weddings, funerals, feasts of the community,” it said.

Guests show due respect to the religious observances of others as well as “savor the hospitality accorded to them. Such practice is a privileged witness to what unites believers, without diminishing or denying what distinguishes them,” the message said.

However, “in the context of recent attacks on churches, mosques and synagogues by wicked persons who seem to perceive the places of worship as a privileged target for their blind and senseless violence, it is worth noting” what was said in the document on “Human Fraternity for World Peace and Living Together.”

Signed by Pope Francis and Sheikh Ahmad el-Tayeb, grand imam of al-Azhar, in 2019, the document said “the protection of places of worship — synagogues, churches and mosques — is a duty guaranteed by religions, human values, laws and international agreements.

“Every attempt to attack places of worship or threaten them by violent assaults, bombings or destruction, is a deviation from the teachings of religions as well as a clear violation of international law,” said document, cited in the message.

[…]
While theoretically possible, statistically very improbable.

Many, many Christians would indicate this has not been their experience. I say "would indicate" because they cannot affirm or deny his statement on account of they're %fracking well dead.
No joke. Protect it from whom, again?

Someone might want to tell the Muslims in the Middle East, Asia, Africa, and France that instead of desecrating and burning the Christian places of worship, not to mention kidnapping/killing the worshippers therein, that the pope signed a document informing everyone that protection of places of Christian worship is a duty guaranteed by Islam.

Next on the docket, “Chickens and Foxes: Protecting together the places where hens lay eggs."
"The Evangelium has not abrogated legends; it has hallowed them" -JRR Tolkien

"Better to die cheerfully with the aid of a little tobacco, than to live disagreeably and remorseful without." -CS Lewis

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Re: Faith in the News

Post by hugodrax » Wed May 06, 2020 7:17 am

tuttle wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 6:38 am
hugodrax wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 3:11 pm
wosbald wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 2:59 pm
+JMJ+

Cardinal: Christians, Muslims can protect places of worship together
Image
Muslim men wearing masks offer prayers at a mosque on the first Friday of Ramadan, May 1, 2020, during the coronavirus pandemic in New Delhi. A Vatican official said Christians and Muslims can protect places of worship together. (Credit: Anushree Fadnavis/Reuters via CNS)

ROME — Christian and Muslim communities can work together to safeguard places of worship, thereby helping guarantee the freedom to profess one’s own belief, said the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue’s annual message to Muslims for the end of Ramadan.

Cardinal Miguel Angel Ayuso Guixot, president of the council, also said he was wishing and praying “that Christians and Muslims, united in a spirit of fraternity, demonstrate solidarity” with all of humanity, affected as it has been by the coronavirus.

In a separate note added to the annual message, which had been written before the spread of the COVID-19 pandemic, he asked Christians and Muslims to pray that God would protect “every human being,” and, especially, pray “for the healing of the afflicted and for the grace for all to overcome these difficult moments.”

The annual message to Muslims for the month of Ramadan and Eid al-Fitr, the feast marking the end of the monthlong Ramadan fast, was published by the Vatican May 1. Ramadan began April 24 and will end on or around May 23 this year.

The message was titled, “Christians and Muslims: Protecting together the places of worship,” and it was also signed by the council’s secretary, Msgr. Indunil Janakaratne Kodithuwakku Kankanamalage.

Places of worship hold an important place in Christianity, Islam and other religions as well, the message said.

They have also been an important place to show “spiritual hospitality, where believers of other religions also join for some special ceremonies like weddings, funerals, feasts of the community,” it said.

Guests show due respect to the religious observances of others as well as “savor the hospitality accorded to them. Such practice is a privileged witness to what unites believers, without diminishing or denying what distinguishes them,” the message said.

However, “in the context of recent attacks on churches, mosques and synagogues by wicked persons who seem to perceive the places of worship as a privileged target for their blind and senseless violence, it is worth noting” what was said in the document on “Human Fraternity for World Peace and Living Together.”

Signed by Pope Francis and Sheikh Ahmad el-Tayeb, grand imam of al-Azhar, in 2019, the document said “the protection of places of worship — synagogues, churches and mosques — is a duty guaranteed by religions, human values, laws and international agreements.

“Every attempt to attack places of worship or threaten them by violent assaults, bombings or destruction, is a deviation from the teachings of religions as well as a clear violation of international law,” said document, cited in the message.

[…]
While theoretically possible, statistically very improbable.

Many, many Christians would indicate this has not been their experience. I say "would indicate" because they cannot affirm or deny his statement on account of they're %fracking well dead.
No joke. Protect it from whom, again?

Someone might want to tell the Muslims in the Middle East, Asia, Africa, and France that instead of desecrating and burning the Christian places of worship, not to mention kidnapping/killing the worshippers therein, that the pope signed a document informing everyone that protection of places of Christian worship is a duty guaranteed by Islam.

Next on the docket, “Chickens and Foxes: Protecting together the places where hens lay eggs."
He's had some good ones recently. I also enjoyed the one where he told us to share with our Muslim neighbors their sundown meals which break their Ramadan fast...like, hey Holmes, you know we locked down, yeah? Can't even go to our own church? Remember when you had that one-man Good Friday thing and destroyed the medieval crucifix in the rain?

Yeah, that's still happening. Ok. Yeah yeah. Solidarity with the workers...ok...you know they're all laid off, yeah? Might not go back to work anytime soon and you probably shouldnt have fired all those employees on St Joseph's Day and then talked about the necessity for continuous employment... Ok, then. Whatever. Cup of yerba mate and a nice relaxing sit down, then. Here's your hammer and sickle crucifix. Shhhhhh. It's ok.
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth
—Marcus Aurelius

non nobis, Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam

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Re: Faith in the News

Post by wosbald » Wed May 06, 2020 7:47 am

+JMJ+

Pope Francis joins Muslim leaders in calling for world day of prayer to end the coronavirus [In-Depth]
Image

Pope Francis calls on believers of all religions to pray together on May 14 to ask God to rid the world of the pandemic and asks that the vaccines to be made available to all persons threatened with infection.

Pope Francis has endorsed the call to “the believers of all the religions to unite together spiritually on May 14 in a day of prayer and fasting, to implore God to help humanity overcome the coronavirus pandemic.”

He also encouraged international cooperation to respond to the crisis, and emphasized the importance that scientific efforts to find a vaccine be put together in “a transparent and disinterested way” and that “the essential technologies be made universally available” so that every infected person may be able to receive the medical care needed.

The appeal calls on believers in God worldwide to hold “a day for fasting, prayers, and supplications” on May 14.

He focused on these two issues when he addressed a virtual global audience by Vatican Media from the library of the Vatican’s Apostolic Palace at midday on Sunday, May 3.

In his address, he repeated the call for an interreligious day of prayer saying, “Remember, May 14, all believers together, believers of the different [religious] traditions, to pray, to fast, and to do works of charity.”

The proposal for this worldwide day of prayer came originally from the High Committee for Human Fraternity, which was established in September 2019 as a concrete response to the Document on Human Fraternity for World Peace and Living Together signed by Pope Francis and Sheikh Ahmed el-Tayeb, Grand Imam of Al-Azhar, during the pope’s visit to the United Arab Emirates in February 2019.

As the pope endorsed that call today he explained that “since prayer is a universal value, I accepted its proposal [for this day of prayer].”

“Remember, May 14, all believers together, believers of the different traditions, to pray, to fast, and to do works of charity.”

[…]

The Vatican published the appeal from the Higher Committee of Human Fraternity on Saturday May 2. The document draws attention to the “great danger” from Covid-19 “that threatens the lives of millions of people around the world” and says, “while we reaffirm the role of medicine and scientific research in fighting this pandemic, we should not forget to seek refuge in God, the All-Creator, as we face such severe crisis.”

The appeal calls on believers in God worldwide to hold “a day for fasting, prayers, and supplications” on May 14.

It calls on “all peoples around the world to do good deeds, observe fast, pray, and make devout supplications to God Almighty to end this pandemic.” It continues that “each one from wherever they are and according to the teachings of their religion, faith, or sect, should implore God to lift this pandemic off us and the entire world, to rescue us all from this adversity, to inspire scientists to find a cure that can turn back this disease, and to save the whole world from the health, economic, and human repercussions of this serious pandemic.”

The committee “invites all religious leaders and peoples around the world to respond to this call for humanity and together beseech God Almighty to safeguard the entire world, to help us overcome this pandemic, to restore security, stability, healthiness, and prosperity, so that, after this pandemic is over, our world will become a better place for humanity and fraternity than ever before.”

The committee is composed of nine members, including Cardinal Miguel Ángel Ayuso Guixot, president of the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue, Mohamed Hussein Mahrasawi, president of Al-Azhar University, Monsignor Yoannis Lahzi Gaid, personal secretary of Pope Francis, and Judge Mohamed Mahmoud Abdel Salam, advisor to the Grand Imam. It seeks to promote that Document on Human Fraternity, which reminds people everywhere that we are all brothers and sisters and members of the one human family, a point that is reinforced by today’s call to prayer and fasting.

The appeal was published in English, Italian, French, German, Spanish, Arabic, Afghan, Malaysian, Persian, Swahili, Turkish, Urdu, Chinese and Hebrew.

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: Faith in the News

Post by tuttle » Wed May 06, 2020 8:55 am

wosbald wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 7:47 am
+JMJ+

Pope Francis joins Muslim leaders in calling for world day of prayer to end the coronavirus [In-Depth]
Image

Pope Francis calls on believers of all religions to pray together on May 14 to ask God to rid the world of the pandemic and asks that the vaccines to be made available to all persons threatened with infection.

Pope Francis has endorsed the call to “the believers of all the religions to unite together spiritually on May 14 in a day of prayer and fasting, to implore God to help humanity overcome the coronavirus pandemic.”
I get the idea of calling on all religions to fast, pray, etc. What really is quite flabbergasting is the idea that the Pope would endorse that all religions unite together spiritually. Either that means something or nothing.

If it means nothing, then to hell with it, if it means something then why bring hell into it?

Oh, and Muslims kill more people than Covid-19.
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"Better to die cheerfully with the aid of a little tobacco, than to live disagreeably and remorseful without." -CS Lewis

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Re: Faith in the News

Post by wosbald » Wed May 06, 2020 9:05 am

+JMJ+
tuttle wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 8:55 am
[…]

If it means nothing, then to hell with it, if it means something then why bring hell into it?

[…]
I think that sounded much cleverer when still knocking 'round inside yer head. :wink:

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: Faith in the News

Post by tuttle » Wed May 06, 2020 10:25 am

wosbald wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 9:05 am
+JMJ+
tuttle wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 8:55 am
[…]

If it means nothing, then to hell with it, if it means something then why bring hell into it?

[…]
I think that sounded much cleverer when still knocking 'round inside yer head. :wink:
I'm trying to figure out how Christians and any other religion that is not founded in Christ can remain as they are and still unite spiritually.

If to unite "spiritually" is just purely nominal jargon for prayer and supplication, then who cares (ie. to hell with it)?

If if to unite spiritually is more than nominal jargon, and implies an actual spiritual uniting, what spirit is doing the uniting? Are we to believe the Holy Spirit is the one spiritually uniting all other religions on their own terms? Or are we to imagine some sort of spiritual plane where Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Jew, X, Y, Z, all co-equally exist or have a right to? Equating and or attributing the power of the Holy Spirit with any other seems to me to qualify for blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Thus, why bring hell into it?
"The Evangelium has not abrogated legends; it has hallowed them" -JRR Tolkien

"Better to die cheerfully with the aid of a little tobacco, than to live disagreeably and remorseful without." -CS Lewis

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Re: Faith in the News

Post by wosbald » Wed May 06, 2020 10:47 am

+JMJ+
tuttle wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 10:25 am
wosbald wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 9:05 am
tuttle wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 8:55 am
[…]

If it means nothing, then to hell with it, if it means something then why bring hell into it?

[…]
I think that sounded much cleverer when still knocking 'round inside yer head. :wink:
I'm trying to figure out how Christians and any other religion that is not founded in Christ can remain as they are and still unite spiritually.

If to unite "spiritually" is just purely nominal jargon for prayer and supplication, then who cares (ie. to hell with it)?

If if to unite spiritually is more than nominal jargon, and implies an actual spiritual uniting, what spirit is doing the uniting? Are we to believe the Holy Spirit is the one spiritually uniting all other religions on their own terms? Or are we to imagine some sort of spiritual plane where Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Jew, X, Y, Z, all co-equally exist or have a right to? Equating and or attributing the power of the Holy Spirit with any other seems to me to qualify for blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Thus, why bring hell into it?
Nope. Still not soundin' any cleverer. :razz:

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: Faith in the News

Post by Del » Wed May 06, 2020 10:48 am

tuttle wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 10:25 am
wosbald wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 9:05 am
+JMJ+
tuttle wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 8:55 am
[…]

If it means nothing, then to hell with it, if it means something then why bring hell into it?

[…]
I think that sounded much cleverer when still knocking 'round inside yer head. :wink:
I'm trying to figure out how Christians and any other religion that is not founded in Christ can remain as they are and still unite spiritually.

If to unite "spiritually" is just purely nominal jargon for prayer and supplication, then who cares (ie. to hell with it)?

If if to unite spiritually is more than nominal jargon, and implies an actual spiritual uniting, what spirit is doing the uniting? Are we to believe the Holy Spirit is the one spiritually uniting all other religions on their own terms? Or are we to imagine some sort of spiritual plane where Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Jew, X, Y, Z, all co-equally exist or have a right to? Equating and or attributing the power of the Holy Spirit with any other seems to me to qualify for blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Thus, why bring hell into it?
This is what I was trying to get at in an earlier discussion.

It is one thing to share our prayers among our various faith traditions.

It is another thing to act as if we share a common worship.

When you are the Pope, you need to specify what it means to unite spiritually. We can't just bandy fluffy words that sound nice. Don't be afraid to say, "We should unite in love, as one common humanity." That has a fiercely clear meaning -- to Christians and Islamists and Communists.
G.K. Chesterton — 'It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged.'

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Re: Faith in the News

Post by tuttle » Wed May 06, 2020 10:56 am

Del wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 10:48 am
tuttle wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 10:25 am
wosbald wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 9:05 am
+JMJ+
tuttle wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 8:55 am
[…]

If it means nothing, then to hell with it, if it means something then why bring hell into it?

[…]
I think that sounded much cleverer when still knocking 'round inside yer head. :wink:
I'm trying to figure out how Christians and any other religion that is not founded in Christ can remain as they are and still unite spiritually.

If to unite "spiritually" is just purely nominal jargon for prayer and supplication, then who cares (ie. to hell with it)?

If if to unite spiritually is more than nominal jargon, and implies an actual spiritual uniting, what spirit is doing the uniting? Are we to believe the Holy Spirit is the one spiritually uniting all other religions on their own terms? Or are we to imagine some sort of spiritual plane where Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Jew, X, Y, Z, all co-equally exist or have a right to? Equating and or attributing the power of the Holy Spirit with any other seems to me to qualify for blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Thus, why bring hell into it?
This is what I was trying to get at in an earlier discussion.

It is one thing to share our prayers among our various faith traditions.

It is another thing to act as if we share a common worship.

When you are the Pope, you need to specify what it means to unite spiritually. We can't just bandy fluffy words that sound nice. Don't be afraid to say, "We should unite in love, as one common humanity." That has a fiercely clear meaning -- to Christians and Islamists and Communists.
Yes. This.
"The Evangelium has not abrogated legends; it has hallowed them" -JRR Tolkien

"Better to die cheerfully with the aid of a little tobacco, than to live disagreeably and remorseful without." -CS Lewis

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Re: Faith in the News

Post by tuttle » Wed May 06, 2020 10:58 am

wosbald wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 10:47 am
+JMJ+
tuttle wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 10:25 am
wosbald wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 9:05 am
tuttle wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 8:55 am
[…]

If it means nothing, then to hell with it, if it means something then why bring hell into it?

[…]
I think that sounded much cleverer when still knocking 'round inside yer head. :wink:
I'm trying to figure out how Christians and any other religion that is not founded in Christ can remain as they are and still unite spiritually.

If to unite "spiritually" is just purely nominal jargon for prayer and supplication, then who cares (ie. to hell with it)?

If if to unite spiritually is more than nominal jargon, and implies an actual spiritual uniting, what spirit is doing the uniting? Are we to believe the Holy Spirit is the one spiritually uniting all other religions on their own terms? Or are we to imagine some sort of spiritual plane where Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Jew, X, Y, Z, all co-equally exist or have a right to? Equating and or attributing the power of the Holy Spirit with any other seems to me to qualify for blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Thus, why bring hell into it?
Nope. Still not soundin' any cleverer. :razz:
Care to poke any holes?
"The Evangelium has not abrogated legends; it has hallowed them" -JRR Tolkien

"Better to die cheerfully with the aid of a little tobacco, than to live disagreeably and remorseful without." -CS Lewis

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wosbald
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Re: Faith in the News

Post by wosbald » Wed May 06, 2020 11:16 am

+JMJ+
tuttle wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 10:58 am
wosbald wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 10:47 am
tuttle wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 10:25 am
wosbald wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 9:05 am
tuttle wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 8:55 am
[…]

If it means nothing, then to hell with it, if it means something then why bring hell into it?

[…]
I think that sounded much cleverer when still knocking 'round inside yer head. :wink:
I'm trying to figure out how Christians and any other religion that is not founded in Christ can remain as they are and still unite spiritually.

If to unite "spiritually" is just purely nominal jargon for prayer and supplication, then who cares (ie. to hell with it)?

If if to unite spiritually is more than nominal jargon, and implies an actual spiritual uniting, what spirit is doing the uniting? Are we to believe the Holy Spirit is the one spiritually uniting all other religions on their own terms? Or are we to imagine some sort of spiritual plane where Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Jew, X, Y, Z, all co-equally exist or have a right to? Equating and or attributing the power of the Holy Spirit with any other seems to me to qualify for blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Thus, why bring hell into it?
Nope. Still not soundin' any cleverer. :razz:
Care to poke any holes?
I don't think it's possible to poke holes in false dichotomies. Rather, the dichotomizer has to release his grip on his "death-trap" logic, by encountering the explanatory limitations of his dichotomy's horizons.

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: Faith in the News

Post by tuttle » Wed May 06, 2020 11:39 am

wosbald wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 11:16 am
+JMJ+
tuttle wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 10:58 am
wosbald wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 10:47 am
tuttle wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 10:25 am
wosbald wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 9:05 am
tuttle wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 8:55 am
[…]

If it means nothing, then to hell with it, if it means something then why bring hell into it?

[…]
I think that sounded much cleverer when still knocking 'round inside yer head. :wink:
I'm trying to figure out how Christians and any other religion that is not founded in Christ can remain as they are and still unite spiritually.

If to unite "spiritually" is just purely nominal jargon for prayer and supplication, then who cares (ie. to hell with it)?

If if to unite spiritually is more than nominal jargon, and implies an actual spiritual uniting, what spirit is doing the uniting? Are we to believe the Holy Spirit is the one spiritually uniting all other religions on their own terms? Or are we to imagine some sort of spiritual plane where Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Jew, X, Y, Z, all co-equally exist or have a right to? Equating and or attributing the power of the Holy Spirit with any other seems to me to qualify for blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Thus, why bring hell into it?
Nope. Still not soundin' any cleverer. :razz:
Care to poke any holes?
I don't think it's possible to poke holes in false dichotomies. Rather, the dichotomizer has to release his grip on his "death-trap" logic, by encountering the explanatory limitations of his dichotomy's horizons.
I think that sounded much cleverer when still knocking 'round inside yer head. :lol:
"The Evangelium has not abrogated legends; it has hallowed them" -JRR Tolkien

"Better to die cheerfully with the aid of a little tobacco, than to live disagreeably and remorseful without." -CS Lewis

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Re: Faith in the News

Post by hugodrax » Wed May 06, 2020 11:41 am

tuttle wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 11:39 am
wosbald wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 11:16 am
+JMJ+
tuttle wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 10:58 am
wosbald wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 10:47 am
tuttle wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 10:25 am
wosbald wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 9:05 am
tuttle wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 8:55 am
[…]

If it means nothing, then to hell with it, if it means something then why bring hell into it?

[…]
I think that sounded much cleverer when still knocking 'round inside yer head. :wink:
I'm trying to figure out how Christians and any other religion that is not founded in Christ can remain as they are and still unite spiritually.

If to unite "spiritually" is just purely nominal jargon for prayer and supplication, then who cares (ie. to hell with it)?

If if to unite spiritually is more than nominal jargon, and implies an actual spiritual uniting, what spirit is doing the uniting? Are we to believe the Holy Spirit is the one spiritually uniting all other religions on their own terms? Or are we to imagine some sort of spiritual plane where Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Jew, X, Y, Z, all co-equally exist or have a right to? Equating and or attributing the power of the Holy Spirit with any other seems to me to qualify for blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Thus, why bring hell into it?
Nope. Still not soundin' any cleverer. :razz:
Care to poke any holes?
I don't think it's possible to poke holes in false dichotomies. Rather, the dichotomizer has to release his grip on his "death-trap" logic, by encountering the explanatory limitations of his dichotomy's horizons.
I think that sounded much cleverer when still knocking 'round inside yer head. :lol:
Wos and Protestant Wos are at it again. :D
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth
—Marcus Aurelius

non nobis, Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam

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Re: Faith in the News

Post by tuttle » Wed May 06, 2020 11:45 am

hugodrax wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 11:41 am
tuttle wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 11:39 am
wosbald wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 11:16 am
+JMJ+
tuttle wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 10:58 am
wosbald wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 10:47 am
tuttle wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 10:25 am
wosbald wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 9:05 am
tuttle wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 8:55 am
[…]

If it means nothing, then to hell with it, if it means something then why bring hell into it?

[…]
I think that sounded much cleverer when still knocking 'round inside yer head. :wink:
I'm trying to figure out how Christians and any other religion that is not founded in Christ can remain as they are and still unite spiritually.

If to unite "spiritually" is just purely nominal jargon for prayer and supplication, then who cares (ie. to hell with it)?

If if to unite spiritually is more than nominal jargon, and implies an actual spiritual uniting, what spirit is doing the uniting? Are we to believe the Holy Spirit is the one spiritually uniting all other religions on their own terms? Or are we to imagine some sort of spiritual plane where Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Jew, X, Y, Z, all co-equally exist or have a right to? Equating and or attributing the power of the Holy Spirit with any other seems to me to qualify for blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Thus, why bring hell into it?
Nope. Still not soundin' any cleverer. :razz:
Care to poke any holes?
I don't think it's possible to poke holes in false dichotomies. Rather, the dichotomizer has to release his grip on his "death-trap" logic, by encountering the explanatory limitations of his dichotomy's horizons.
I think that sounded much cleverer when still knocking 'round inside yer head. :lol:
Wos and Protestant Wos are at it again. :D
True story. I had a dream about wos last night.

He lived in a room with a door, like a door between hotel rooms, but magic. It could connect to all sorts of rooms. He happened to invite me over via the door, which I did and we had a delightful conversation about the magical properties of the door.

The funny thing is that the whole time I knew it was wos, but I never once saw his face.
"The Evangelium has not abrogated legends; it has hallowed them" -JRR Tolkien

"Better to die cheerfully with the aid of a little tobacco, than to live disagreeably and remorseful without." -CS Lewis

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Re: Faith in the News

Post by AnungUnRama » Wed May 06, 2020 12:37 pm

That right there sounds like the film "Being John Malcovich". Almost.
Remember, if women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy.
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Re: Faith in the News

Post by hugodrax » Wed May 06, 2020 1:24 pm

AnungUnRama wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 12:37 pm
That right there sounds like the film "Being John Malcovich". Almost.
Gollum vs Gollum. :lol:
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth
—Marcus Aurelius

non nobis, Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam

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Re: Faith in the News

Post by wosbald » Thu May 07, 2020 4:48 pm

+JMJ+

Cooking priest in India: ‘People want recipes; I want to share Jesus’ [Video]
Image
Father Warner D’Souza cooks a meal on his YouTube channel. (Credit: YouTube)

MUMBAI, India — A priest in India who is also a professionally trained chef has gained a new audience during the coronavirus lockdown.

Father Warner D’Souza, who heads St Jude’s Church in Mumbai, told Crux “people wand food recipes and I want to share Jesus.”

The priest’s YouTube channel has nearly 5,000 subscribers, and he uses to share reflections and liturgies to his parishioners — but his program “Food for the Soul” has become the hit of the internet.


“Food for the soul began as a journey led by the Lord,” D’Souza explained. “I was retiring for the day when the news channel reported that the evidence from search engines pointed out that food was high on most people’s list during the lockdown. The next day, I providentially got a call from the ‘Jesus Youth’ asking me if I would do a food show and talk about the faith. I love teaching the Scriptures and food is a passion.”

His passion for food began in his youth, since he often had to cook as a child.

[…]

Part of the reason the show is a success is the priest’s style: He easily switches from food to religion, and his easy-going manner makes these constant shifts seem perfectly natural.

“Teaching comes naturally to me; my parents were teachers and I grew up watching them. Today that seed has borne fruit in my ability to break the word. Since I am passionate about the Word and food, it has not been a challenge,” D’Souza said. “For these days I preach from two pulpits, the one in Church and the kitchen in my residence. God calls each of us to use our pulpit to evangelize. If you sing, make that your pulpit.”

[…]

The lockdown has made D’Souza’s internet ministry vital — and he even uses Zoom to have meetings with his parishioners.

“Since the lockdown people have been hooked on to the internet. When Pope John Paul II called for a new evangelization; new in ardor and method he was calling for every means to be used. The internet is the new normal and we must therefore use every means that God has given us to make Him known,” the priest said.

The St. Jude parish, located in Mumbai’s Malad East area, has just 250 families, but has been highly active during the coronavirus crisis.

“Since the first day of the pandemic we have made sure none of our parishioners, many who live in the shanties, have been in need. From financial aid to groceries we have given 300 packets of groceries enough for a family of 4 for at least ten days,” D’Souza said. “This has also been shared with the community at large which includes Hindus and Muslims.”

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

Locked