Can a Christian Support Gay Marriage?

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Del
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Re: Can a Christian Support Gay Marriage?

Post by Del » Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:59 am

harkpuff wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:27 pm
Ultimately….It does not matter what we, Justice Kennedy, or any other court determines regarding marriage. God, who created mankind is the one who created, ordained and sets the standard for God's institution of marriage. Marriage was created by God and belongs to God. Our personal opinions, preferences, or official judicial rulings concerning the issue doesn't mean a hill of beans to God since God answers to no one and it will be we who answer to Him.
Mankind in his pride and arrogance tends to forget who is in charge....and it ain't us!
It does not matter whether one knows God or not.... Human nature is not up for re-definition by courts or legislatures.

We have decided to permit this unnatural view of human sexuality and marriage in our culture, and we will have to deal with the consequences.

In ancient cultures and societies that openly permitted homosexuality, we also find the practices of infanticide and sexual abuse of children. Often, we also find polygamy, harems, prostitution.... signs that women are viewed as possessions and property, rather than free persons.

Not that any one of these causes the other, but it seems that these are all caused by some root cause -- a failure to understand the value and natural purpose of sex and marriage.

Our culture has homosexuality and infanticide, legal and openly tolerated. We also have a growing problem of child sexual abuse, although this is not yet legal or tolerated by the culture. But we do encourage sexualization of children at younger ages, through our schools and the entertainment media, so we are headed that way. And it seems like women are also being treated and traded like property, a thing to be purchased when wanted and discarded when unwanted.
Last edited by Del on Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can a Christian Support Gay Marriage?

Post by Thunktank » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:08 am

Marriage was always about making children together.
Well, that is a natural desired outcome of marriage. The sacrament of marriage in Christianity is based off of Trinitarian theology. Man is not made to live alone except under certain circumstances. Adam and Eve were made to be together before the fall in perfect U***n and harmony. That U***n was disrupted by sin. Christian marriage is a mystery with some salvic principles in that it helps bring back together by grace what God already started at creation. The family is a church that should be in communion with the love of God and in love between its members. The same likeness of love found between the persons of the Holy Trinity. One of the markers of this love between a husband and wife in Christ is the desire of children in procreation that shows the outpouring of God’s love in creation.

So as to the answer of the OP question. Homosexuality and gay “marriage” can not fulfill God’s plan of marriage, Christians who “support” gay marriage are supporting something other than a marriage. Christians do often “support” things that God did not intend, but that doesn’t cancel out baptism.

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Re: Can a Christian Support Gay Marriage?

Post by harkpuff » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:44 am

Amen to your comments Del and Thunktank! Well said.

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Re: Can a Christian Support Gay Marriage?

Post by jasonsilver » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:52 am

Interesting conversation!

I think there are three aspects to this questions.
1. The definition of a marriage or a civil U***n
2. The definition of sin, and with that, the balance between the OT law and the NT grace, the consideration of culture, compared between now and ancient times
3. Conversation about what makes a Christian- ie, are Christians without sin, can a Christian believe something that isn't aligned with God's perfect will for us, etc.

I agree with one commenter who said he observed the state's role in civil unions for the things like tax advantages, legal issues, and so on, contrasted with the means of grace available through a marriage in the church. If they are viewed as two different things (as I believe they should be), then it makes the whole process less murky.

Afterall, a judge who marries two people may or may not be a Christian (and is most likely not a pastor or priest), and just because they oversee a U***n, that does not necessarily make a marriage in the eyes of the church (local denominations may have different approaches). Likewise, in many locales, getting married in a church is not enough to claim one is in a civil U***n, but a license from the state is required as well (or the reading of the bans is accepted in some places). Cohabitating for a minimum length of time automatically institutes a common-law marriage (at least in Canada).

So if the state separates itself from religion, there is no reason it should submit to the behest of religious institutions who claim they are the true protectors of this institution of marriage. It might be better for the country spiritually speaking, if they did, but as representatives of the majority, a state may want to allow all people the right to such a U***n.

It might be important to add here that I've noticed some homosexuals apparently are not satisfied with a civil U***n, as they want the blessing of the Church. I find this interesting... but unpacking that is best left for another topic.

Now regarding the definition of sin, I don't think I'm qualified to speak to that. I like the way someone put it- there are sins of the flesh - so-called animalistic sins, and then there are the sins of a more diabolical nature. Jesus seemed to do a lot more condemning of the latter than the former. I think Christians risk being ignored and obsoleted by society, because we ourselves forget what we're really about, namely the Kingdom of God as Jesus described it.

Finally, the way we define Christianity itself is an important consideration. Are any of us without sin? What makes us suitable for salvation? I've seen some harsh comments in this thread which don't appear to reflect a self awareness of our own fallen nature.

I know we all get this theoretically - that God is at work in us, slowly making us like him, slowly aligning our ways to his; and yet we may sometimes behave as if we all should agree immediately or risk being kicked out of the faith.

Love to all!
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Re: Can a Christian Support Gay Marriage?

Post by coco » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:07 am

DAN wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:43 pm
Well, let's not jump to conclusions.

Had to look up where bestiality is legal. According to this, https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bestiality
It is legal in Argentina, Brazil, Colombia, Mexico, Cambodia, Thailand, Japan, Russia, Finland,[2] Hungary, Turkey, Canada and Romania...
And according to this, https://www.indy100.com/article/us-stat ... al-7451731 , certain states do not outlaw it.
Hawaii, Kentucky, Nevada, New Mexico, Ohio, Texas, Vermont, West Virginia and Wyoming, and the District of Columbia...
Perhaps those goats are not as safe as we would like to think.
Indeed.
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Re: Can a Christian Support Gay Marriage?

Post by artsygeek » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:04 pm


jasonsilver wrote:Interesting conversation!

I think there are three aspects to this questions.
1. The definition of a marriage or a civil U***n
2. The definition of sin, and with that, the balance between the OT law and the NT grace, the consideration of culture, compared between now and ancient times
3. Conversation about what makes a Christian- ie, are Christians without sin, can a Christian believe something that isn't aligned with God's perfect will for us, etc.

I agree with one commenter who said he observed the state's role in civil unions for the things like tax advantages, legal issues, and so on, contrasted with the means of grace available through a marriage in the church. If they are viewed as two different things (as I believe they should be), then it makes the whole process less murky.

Afterall, a judge who marries two people may or may not be a Christian (and is most likely not a pastor or priest), and just because they oversee a U***n, that does not necessarily make a marriage in the eyes of the church (local denominations may have different approaches). Likewise, in many locales, getting married in a church is not enough to claim one is in a civil U***n, but a license from the state is required as well (or the reading of the bans is accepted in some places). Cohabitating for a minimum length of time automatically institutes a common-law marriage (at least in Canada).

So if the state separates itself from religion, there is no reason it should submit to the behest of religious institutions who claim they are the true protectors of this institution of marriage. It might be better for the country spiritually speaking, if they did, but as representatives of the majority, a state may want to allow all people the right to such a U***n.

It might be important to add here that I've noticed some homosexuals apparently are not satisfied with a civil U***n, as they want the blessing of the Church. I find this interesting... but unpacking that is best left for another topic.

Now regarding the definition of sin, I don't think I'm qualified to speak to that. I like the way someone put it- there are sins of the flesh - so-called animalistic sins, and then there are the sins of a more diabolical nature. Jesus seemed to do a lot more condemning of the latter than the former. I think Christians risk being ignored and obsoleted by society, because we ourselves forget what we're really about, namely the Kingdom of God as Jesus described it.

Finally, the way we define Christianity itself is an important consideration. Are any of us without sin? What makes us suitable for salvation? I've seen some harsh comments in this thread which don't appear to reflect a self awareness of our own fallen nature.

I know we all get this theoretically - that God is at work in us, slowly making us like him, slowly aligning our ways to his; and yet we may sometimes behave as if we all should agree immediately or risk being kicked out of the faith.

Love to all!
This Mennonite agrees completely!

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Re: Can a Christian Support Gay Marriage?

Post by jasonsilver » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:05 pm

artsygeek wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:04 pm
This Mennonite agrees completely!
Interesting! My wife is a Mennonite!
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