Can a Christian Support Gay Marriage?

For those deep thinkers out there.

Moderator: tuttle

Post Reply
User avatar
Kerdy
Smootchie
Smootchie
Posts: 16971
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: North Carolina

Post by Kerdy » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:56 pm

wosbald wrote:+JMJ+
Gabriel wrote:
TNLawPiper wrote:Just as the Supreme Court gave interracial couples the same right to be married as it had given white couples, we should give homosexual couples the same rights to be married as we give heterosexual couples. This isn't a matter of individual rights, but of substantive due process rights of couples to marry.
<redacted_emoji>
Seriously? Apples to Oranges my friend.
Exactly.

TNLP's analysis only works if there is no substantive difference between men and women. If the differences are only accidental (such as the differences between caucasians, negroes, and orientals) then there is no justification in U.S. law for prohibition.

There are those who claim that human/animal, human/vegetable, or human/inanimate object marriages will inevitably result from such blurring of natural law. The response to this objection is that allowing homosexual marriage will not result in such lunacy. And it is true, that such a ruling would not immediately lead to such an end. But it would only be one short and logically progressive step from this point to claim that there is no substantive difference between Man and the rest of Creation.
Keep in mind these are the same people who tell the father of a child who is about to be aborted he has no rights after the sperm leaves his body, but as soon as a child he didnt want is born those people demand he magically be required to care of the child. Double standard is all they know.
"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr  ( c.160 )

“Moral principles do not depend on a majority vote. Wrong is wrong, even if everybody is wrong. Right is right, even if nobody is right.” - Venerable Servant of God, Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

User avatar
Bigwill
Near! Far!
Near! Far!
Posts: 10000
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:00 pm
Location: Woodstock, IL
Contact:

Post by Bigwill » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:57 pm

Kerdy wrote:If marriage is a right then I DEMAND to be married to Kate Beckinsale, Kelly Monaco and Famke by the end of the week!
Sorry, Kerdy, but I don't think that polygamy is on the table . . . yet.
And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good? Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?

User avatar
Onyx
Darth Onyx, Bringer of Unity
Darth Onyx, Bringer of Unity
Posts: 10857
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Skeptopolis

Post by Onyx » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:58 pm

Kerdy wrote:
infidel wrote:
To say someone can "recover" from homosexuality like alcoholism is just retarded too.
And yet, it happens everyday. What were you saying about retarded?
This is something I'd like to see some longitudinal research on. By that I mean, it's no good (from an objective point of view) getting the testimony of "recovered" homosexual still in the hot flush of his deliverance story. Researchers would need to follow up on these guys 30 years later. If you did the same thing with alcoholics, you'd find that some remained sober, others didn't. I don't know what you would find with homosexuality.

I understand that Alcoholics Anonymous take the view that a person remains an alcoholic who has abstained from drink, rather than speaking of being cured. The Christian might believe that true healing is possible. But in both cases, they agree that the alcoholism is harmful. So in this respect, the analogy with homosexuality falls down. There is not agreement that homosexuality is bad as there is generally with alcoholism.

User avatar
Kerdy
Smootchie
Smootchie
Posts: 16971
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: North Carolina

Post by Kerdy » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:00 pm

infidel wrote:
wosbald wrote:But it would only be one short and logically progressive step from this point to claim that there is no substantive difference between Man and the rest of Creation.
Nonsense, we don't allow people to make contracts with animals, vegetables or inanimate objects. Those things do not logically follow from allowing any two adults to legally marry.
Now YOUR post was nonsense because people are actively trying to do those things right now.

Animals - In Europe recently they were attempting to give chimps personhood which entitles them to human rights. People will their cats stuff all the time.

Inanimate objects - Did you notice the "green" movement lately?
"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr  ( c.160 )

“Moral principles do not depend on a majority vote. Wrong is wrong, even if everybody is wrong. Right is right, even if nobody is right.” - Venerable Servant of God, Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

User avatar
Kerdy
Smootchie
Smootchie
Posts: 16971
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: North Carolina

Post by Kerdy » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:01 pm

Bigwill wrote:
Kerdy wrote:If marriage is a right then I DEMAND to be married to Kate Beckinsale, Kelly Monaco and Famke by the end of the week!
Sorry, Kerdy, but I don't think that polygamy is on the table . . . yet.
Well, thats just right out discrimination!!!!
"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr  ( c.160 )

“Moral principles do not depend on a majority vote. Wrong is wrong, even if everybody is wrong. Right is right, even if nobody is right.” - Venerable Servant of God, Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

User avatar
Kerdy
Smootchie
Smootchie
Posts: 16971
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: North Carolina

Post by Kerdy » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:03 pm

Onyx wrote:
Kerdy wrote:
infidel wrote:
To say someone can "recover" from homosexuality like alcoholism is just retarded too.
And yet, it happens everyday. What were you saying about retarded?
This is something I'd like to see some longitudinal research on. By that I mean, it's no good (from an objective point of view) getting the testimony of "recovered" homosexual still in the hot flush of his deliverance story. Researchers would need to follow up on these guys 30 years later. If you did the same thing with alcoholics, you'd find that some remained sober, others didn't. I don't know what you would find with homosexuality.

I understand that Alcoholics Anonymous take the view that a person remains an alcoholic who has abstained from drink, rather than speaking of being cured. The Christian might believe that true healing is possible. But in both cases, they agree that the alcoholism is harmful. So in this respect, the analogy with homosexuality falls down. There is not agreement that homosexuality is bad as there is generally with alcoholism.
Has anyone ever wondered why STD's are only spread among the sexually deviant? If so, the answer is because their actions are WRONG!
"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr  ( c.160 )

“Moral principles do not depend on a majority vote. Wrong is wrong, even if everybody is wrong. Right is right, even if nobody is right.” - Venerable Servant of God, Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

User avatar
infidel
kthxbai
kthxbai
Posts: 6483
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:00 pm

Post by infidel » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:04 pm

Kerdy wrote:
infidel wrote:
wosbald wrote:But it would only be one short and logically progressive step from this point to claim that there is no substantive difference between Man and the rest of Creation.
Nonsense, we don't allow people to make contracts with animals, vegetables or inanimate objects. Those things do not logically follow from allowing any two adults to legally marry.
Now YOUR post was nonsense because people are actively trying to do those things right now.

Animals - In Europe recently they were attempting to give chimps personhood which entitles them to human rights. People will their cats stuff all the time.

Inanimate objects - Did you notice the "green" movement lately?
These are different than allowing contracts between a person and a non-person.
Inadvertently emboldening the cause of naïve Evolutionism since 2016.

"Who the hell ponders placentas? Dude, you're a freak of nature." - DepartedLight

"One man's saint is another man's infidel." - hugodrax

"Total. Freaking. Win." - Skip

User avatar
Onyx
Darth Onyx, Bringer of Unity
Darth Onyx, Bringer of Unity
Posts: 10857
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Skeptopolis

Post by Onyx » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:07 pm

Kerdy wrote:Has anyone ever wondered why STD's are only spread among the sexually deviant? If so, the answer is because their actions are WRONG!
Thrush is sexually transmitted. It can be passed between husband and wife in the missionary position with no other sexual partners ever involved.

User avatar
thegreatswalmi
Sandblasted Canadian
Sandblasted Canadian
Posts: 1652
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2003 6:00 pm
Location: Calgary
Contact:

Post by thegreatswalmi » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:08 pm

Can a Christian Support Gay Marriage?

I think a Christian can support the legalization of gay marriage if seen from a certain perspective i.e. human rights etc. That doesn't mean one "supports" gay marriage, however.
Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why several of us died of tuberculosis.
-Jack Handey

User avatar
Kerdy
Smootchie
Smootchie
Posts: 16971
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: North Carolina

Post by Kerdy » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:11 pm

infidel wrote:
Kerdy wrote:
infidel wrote:
wosbald wrote:But it would only be one short and logically progressive step from this point to claim that there is no substantive difference between Man and the rest of Creation.
Nonsense, we don't allow people to make contracts with animals, vegetables or inanimate objects. Those things do not logically follow from allowing any two adults to legally marry.
Now YOUR post was nonsense because people are actively trying to do those things right now.

Animals - In Europe recently they were attempting to give chimps personhood which entitles them to human rights. People will their cats stuff all the time.

Inanimate objects - Did you notice the "green" movement lately?
These are different than allowing contracts between a person and a non-person.
Did you not read the part about giving apes personhood?
"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr  ( c.160 )

“Moral principles do not depend on a majority vote. Wrong is wrong, even if everybody is wrong. Right is right, even if nobody is right.” - Venerable Servant of God, Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

User avatar
infidel
kthxbai
kthxbai
Posts: 6483
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:00 pm

Post by infidel » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:12 pm

Onyx wrote:
Kerdy wrote:Has anyone ever wondered why STD's are only spread among the sexually deviant? If so, the answer is because their actions are WRONG!
Thrush is sexually transmitted. It can be passed between husband and wife in the missionary position with no other sexual partners ever involved.
Why bother responding at this point?
Inadvertently emboldening the cause of naïve Evolutionism since 2016.

"Who the hell ponders placentas? Dude, you're a freak of nature." - DepartedLight

"One man's saint is another man's infidel." - hugodrax

"Total. Freaking. Win." - Skip

User avatar
Onyx
Darth Onyx, Bringer of Unity
Darth Onyx, Bringer of Unity
Posts: 10857
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Skeptopolis

Post by Onyx » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:12 pm

Kerdy wrote:
infidel wrote:
Kerdy wrote:
infidel wrote:
wosbald wrote:But it would only be one short and logically progressive step from this point to claim that there is no substantive difference between Man and the rest of Creation.
Nonsense, we don't allow people to make contracts with animals, vegetables or inanimate objects. Those things do not logically follow from allowing any two adults to legally marry.
Now YOUR post was nonsense because people are actively trying to do those things right now.

Animals - In Europe recently they were attempting to give chimps personhood which entitles them to human rights. People will their cats stuff all the time.

Inanimate objects - Did you notice the "green" movement lately?
These are different than allowing contracts between a person and a non-person.
Did you not read the part about giving apes personhood?
The trouble with the slippery-slope argument is that it's a slippery slope. Once you accept the argument in one thing, they start using it everywhere.

User avatar
Bigwill
Near! Far!
Near! Far!
Posts: 10000
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:00 pm
Location: Woodstock, IL
Contact:

Post by Bigwill » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:15 pm

Onyx wrote:The trouble with the slippery-slope argument is that it's a slippery slope. Once you accept the argument in one thing, they start using it everywhere.
The trouble with the "slippery slope argument" is that it's fallacious. Just becuase you grant X does not necessarily imply that you will grant X+1 in the future. If we operate from reason and prinicples, then slippery slopes won't be a problem. Either the principles support X+1, or they don't. And that fact is irrespective of whether they supported X in the past.
Last edited by Bigwill on Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good? Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?

User avatar
Kerdy
Smootchie
Smootchie
Posts: 16971
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: North Carolina

Post by Kerdy » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:16 pm

Onyx wrote:
Kerdy wrote:Has anyone ever wondered why STD's are only spread among the sexually deviant? If so, the answer is because their actions are WRONG!
Thrush is sexually transmitted. It can be passed between husband and wife in the missionary position with no other sexual partners ever involved.
I can bite my tongue when I eat sometimes. Frogs bump their butt when they hop. If dogs could talk they would still say "bark" because they may be what they intend to say. See, I can toss out pointless things too.

BTW - Females get this infection (yeast infection for those who didnt know what he was talking about) without ever having sex. I'm just sayin...

This is always present in women and can become a problem simply by using modern femine products. Anything else you want to try?
"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr  ( c.160 )

“Moral principles do not depend on a majority vote. Wrong is wrong, even if everybody is wrong. Right is right, even if nobody is right.” - Venerable Servant of God, Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

User avatar
Onyx
Darth Onyx, Bringer of Unity
Darth Onyx, Bringer of Unity
Posts: 10857
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Skeptopolis

Post by Onyx » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:20 pm

Kerdy wrote:
Onyx wrote:
Kerdy wrote:Has anyone ever wondered why STD's are only spread among the sexually deviant? If so, the answer is because their actions are WRONG!
Thrush is sexually transmitted. It can be passed between husband and wife in the missionary position with no other sexual partners ever involved.
I can bite my tongue when I eat sometimes. Frogs bump their butt when they hop. If dogs could talk they would still say "bark" because they may be what they intend to say. See, I can toss out pointless things too.

BTW - Females get this infection (yeast infection for those who didnt know what he was talking about) without ever having sex. I'm just sayin...

This is always present in women and can become a problem simply by using modern femine products. Anything else you want to try?
Yes, and it may be sexually transmitted, to their husbands when they do have sex. I was simply illustrating that your point is false. Note that you used the word "only" in your statement. Therefore, a single exception disproves your point. That's all.

User avatar
SlowToke
John Crosby's Friend
John Crosby's Friend
Posts: 8606
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:00 pm
Location: Cloverdale, IN
Contact:

Post by SlowToke » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:21 pm

infidel wrote:
Kerdy wrote:
infidel wrote:
wosbald wrote:But it would only be one short and logically progressive step from this point to claim that there is no substantive difference between Man and the rest of Creation.
Nonsense, we don't allow people to make contracts with animals, vegetables or inanimate objects. Those things do not logically follow from allowing any two adults to legally marry.
Now YOUR post was nonsense because people are actively trying to do those things right now.

Animals - In Europe recently they were attempting to give chimps personhood which entitles them to human rights. People will their cats stuff all the time.

Inanimate objects - Did you notice the "green" movement lately?
These are different than allowing contracts between a person and a non-person.
What if a man wanted to marry his father? If they truly love each other they should be afforded the same rights as the rest of us shouldn't they? How about adults and children? Where do we draw the line? Just after same gender marriage?

The answer is that a Christian can support gay marriage if they so choose but they would be in opposition to natural law and God's law and therefor would be committing sin.
Wayne Teipen
http://teipenpipes.com
"Fools have no interest in understanding; they only want to air their own opinions." Proverbs 18:2

"Life is tough, and it's tougher when you're stupid." -- John Wayne

User avatar
SlowToke
John Crosby's Friend
John Crosby's Friend
Posts: 8606
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:00 pm
Location: Cloverdale, IN
Contact:

Post by SlowToke » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:21 pm

infidel wrote:
Kerdy wrote:
infidel wrote:
wosbald wrote:But it would only be one short and logically progressive step from this point to claim that there is no substantive difference between Man and the rest of Creation.
Nonsense, we don't allow people to make contracts with animals, vegetables or inanimate objects. Those things do not logically follow from allowing any two adults to legally marry.
Now YOUR post was nonsense because people are actively trying to do those things right now.

Animals - In Europe recently they were attempting to give chimps personhood which entitles them to human rights. People will their cats stuff all the time.

Inanimate objects - Did you notice the "green" movement lately?
These are different than allowing contracts between a person and a non-person.
Wayne Teipen
http://teipenpipes.com
"Fools have no interest in understanding; they only want to air their own opinions." Proverbs 18:2

"Life is tough, and it's tougher when you're stupid." -- John Wayne

User avatar
Kerdy
Smootchie
Smootchie
Posts: 16971
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: North Carolina

Post by Kerdy » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:21 pm

Onyx wrote:
Kerdy wrote:
Onyx wrote:
Kerdy wrote:Has anyone ever wondered why STD's are only spread among the sexually deviant? If so, the answer is because their actions are WRONG!
Thrush is sexually transmitted. It can be passed between husband and wife in the missionary position with no other sexual partners ever involved.
I can bite my tongue when I eat sometimes. Frogs bump their butt when they hop. If dogs could talk they would still say "bark" because they may be what they intend to say. See, I can toss out pointless things too.

BTW - Females get this infection (yeast infection for those who didnt know what he was talking about) without ever having sex. I'm just sayin...

This is always present in women and can become a problem simply by using modern femine products. Anything else you want to try?
Yes, and it may be sexually transmitted, to their husbands when they do have sex. I was simply illustrating that your point is false. Note that you used the word "only" in your statement. Therefore, a single exception disproves your point. That's all.
So, you were grasping at straws.
"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr  ( c.160 )

“Moral principles do not depend on a majority vote. Wrong is wrong, even if everybody is wrong. Right is right, even if nobody is right.” - Venerable Servant of God, Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

User avatar
CodeMonkey
Brother of the Briar
Brother of the Briar
Posts: 4956
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:00 pm
Location: Dark side of the moon

Post by CodeMonkey » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:24 pm

I can't speak for other Christians, but this Christian can't.
“Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play” – Newspaper reporter.

"Trying is the first step towards failure" - Homer Simpson

User avatar
Onyx
Darth Onyx, Bringer of Unity
Darth Onyx, Bringer of Unity
Posts: 10857
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Skeptopolis

Post by Onyx » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:24 pm

Kerdy wrote:
Onyx wrote:
Kerdy wrote:
Onyx wrote:
Kerdy wrote:Has anyone ever wondered why STD's are only spread among the sexually deviant? If so, the answer is because their actions are WRONG!
Thrush is sexually transmitted. It can be passed between husband and wife in the missionary position with no other sexual partners ever involved.
I can bite my tongue when I eat sometimes. Frogs bump their butt when they hop. If dogs could talk they would still say "bark" because they may be what they intend to say. See, I can toss out pointless things too.

BTW - Females get this infection (yeast infection for those who didnt know what he was talking about) without ever having sex. I'm just sayin...

This is always present in women and can become a problem simply by using modern femine products. Anything else you want to try?
Yes, and it may be sexually transmitted, to their husbands when they do have sex. I was simply illustrating that your point is false. Note that you used the word "only" in your statement. Therefore, a single exception disproves your point. That's all.
So, you were grasping at straws.
No, this is where you say... "Oh, ok, you're right. My point was wrong, thanks for correcting me."

Post Reply