Nature of World During End Times

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Kerdy
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Nature of World During End Times

Post by Kerdy » Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:42 am

I brough this over from another thread simply because the other thread was for prayer request and I didnt want to take away from the need of a brother.
Kerdy wrote:
ShellBriar wrote:
In response to your statement about the Holy Spirit giving you some peace...just my gut feeling and I have nothing to back it up with, but I dont see the kind of peace you are thinking of coming. Peace, you bet, but a different kind.

I think the world is about to be turned upside down and we Christians are sensing this and starting to truly search our faith for a solid unmovable foundation for that time. I think the Holy Spirit is giving us a little warning to get right, solid, and unshakable for things to come. Again, just my opinion. I guess what I am saying is, dont hestiate in your search. Get on it and find what God is pointing you to find.
Kerdy, what will the nature of the endtimes be in your opinion? How will the world be turned upside down? I've been interested in this myself, and would like to know what you think.
I will have to put my 2 cents worth in later, but please feel free to post your views as you understand scripture.
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Post by justynblack » Fri Jun 04, 2010 7:19 am

People have been seeing the end of the world coming since the beginning of recorded history. There have been times when such an opinion could be justified like during WWI or WWII. The conflicts going on right now have nothing on what we've already been through.

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Post by sysiphus » Fri Jun 04, 2010 7:22 am

justynblack wrote:People have been seeing the end of the world coming since the beginning of recorded history. There have been times when such an opinion could be justified like during WWI or WWII. The conflicts going on right now have nothing on what we've already been through.
And we are nowhere near the level of Sodom.
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Post by Hovannes » Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:20 am

The ends times are pretty well described in the Bible---it follows an era of peace (which we have yet to see) and more importantly nobody knows when it's gonna hit.

Christians have suffered persecution in the past, are doing so now and will in the future. I'd look at it as a great honor to share in Christ's suffering (although I'd prefer it be quick!)

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Post by ChildOfGod » Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:07 am

Hey Kerdy and Fellows - I didn't say what I'm quoted as saying above. Would you correct that?
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Post by Del » Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:14 am

This is just pure, self-indulgent speculation on my part.

We have endured several antichrists, from the fathers of the reformation to Hitler/Stalin/Mao in the 20th Century. (An antichrist is anyone who promises an easier salvation without Christ and His Church). I am no longer sure that the Big Antichrist will be a person... I think it will be a general attitude of secular salvation. the messianic tone of Obama's campaign gave me the heebie-jeebies.

We are living in the midst of the Great Apostacy. The easiest measure is to look at those nations who have democratically embraced abortion and infanticide. That world-map is a great deal more red than blue. Tolerating the killing of innocent children is the most visible rejection of Christ that I can imagine.

At my judgment, Jesus is going to point at the 50+ million American children who were killed during my lifetime and ask, "What did you do to help them?" And I will answer, "Not enough, My Lord."
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Post by jruegg » Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:14 am

Hovannes wrote:The ends times are pretty well described in the Bible---it follows an era of peace (which we have yet to see) and more importantly nobody knows when it's gonna hit.

Christians have suffered persecution in the past, are doing so now and will in the future. I'd look at it as a great honor to share in Christ's suffering (although I'd prefer it be quick!)

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Post by ChildOfGod » Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:34 am

Del wrote:This is just pure, self-indulgent speculation on my part.

We have endured several antichrists, from the fathers of the reformation to Hitler/Stalin/Mao in the 20th Century.
That's a troll post right there buddy. That is the spark that ignites a flame war. I'll refrain from posting about my own views on antichrists so that I don't follow your lead in the error of troll posting, and I hope that others would do the same. Simply put: cut it out, Del.
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Post by Thoth » Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:42 am

sysiphus wrote:
justynblack wrote:People have been seeing the end of the world coming since the beginning of recorded history. There have been times when such an opinion could be justified like during WWI or WWII. The conflicts going on right now have nothing on what we've already been through.
And we are nowhere near the level of Sodom.
Ever been to the Halloween parade in Greenwich Village.
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Post by Del » Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:44 am

ShellBriar wrote:
Del wrote:This is just pure, self-indulgent speculation on my part.

We have endured several antichrists, from the fathers of the reformation to Hitler/Stalin/Mao in the 20th Century.
That's a troll post right there buddy. That is the spark that ignites a flame war. I'll refrain from posting about my own views on antichrists so that I don't follow your lead in the error of troll posting, and I hope that others would do the same. Simply put: cut it out, Del.
I'm sorry. Look.... the Scripture says that a great many Christians will be pulled away from the Body of Christ by the lure of the antichrists. We are often so proud as to think that we will be smart enough to recognize the antichrist -- but most of us won't.
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Post by Gabriel » Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:56 am

Questions about the end times? Just ask Glenn Beck! :D

I'm actually listening to the last 1/2 hour of his radio program today. Crazy stuff right there. 8O

(I knew Del was going to name Protestant leaders as examples of anti-Christs as soon as I saw he'd posted to this thread. :wink: )


Seriously Del, if you'd state your position without using examples of people you know will be super duper controversial... A lot of Protestants believe the Pope to be an anti-christ. You know it, I know it, but I don't use him as an example because it would be offensive in this company. I'm not offended, because I know your motivations and your sincere attempts to recognize where God is working, even in movements you despise. However, it is a fairly offensive statement...
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Post by Skip » Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:01 am

Del wrote:
ShellBriar wrote:
Del wrote:This is just pure, self-indulgent speculation on my part.

We have endured several antichrists, from the fathers of the reformation to Hitler/Stalin/Mao in the 20th Century.
That's a troll post right there buddy. That is the spark that ignites a flame war. I'll refrain from posting about my own views on antichrists so that I don't follow your lead in the error of troll posting, and I hope that others would do the same. Simply put: cut it out, Del.
I'm sorry. Look.... the Scripture says that a great many Christians will be pulled away from the Body of Christ by the lure of the antichrists. We are often so proud as to think that we will be smart enough to recognize the antichrist -- but most of us won't.
Del. Seriously. Cut it out.

You want to discuss differences in doctrine, you go for it. But save the antichrist commentary. This is a forum for exchanging information, not insults.

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Post by Thoth » Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:21 am

A series of entetaining podcasts from the "Our Life in Christ" radio show of the Orthodox view of the end times contrasted with various protestant and evangelic views (as they are the most widespread in the media)...

End Times pt.1 (discussion of various popular scenarios)
End Times pt.2 (a historical look at the understanding of end times)
End Times pt.3 (discuss rapture, dispentionalism, zionism...)
End Times pt.4 (Discuss the beast, anti-christ, 666...)
Last edited by Thoth on Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Thoth » Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:33 am

Though there is something to Kerdy's point of the Holy Spirit moving us to an umovable foundation. It brings to mind a meditation on the miracle of raising Lazarus, one of the commentators (can't remember who) said that Christ performed His most spectacular miracle right before the events of His passion and crucifixion to serves as a form of comfort and reassurance to His apostles that He has power over death ( a lesson they forgot though)
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Post by Del » Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:36 am

Skip wrote:
Del wrote:
ShellBriar wrote:
Del wrote:This is just pure, self-indulgent speculation on my part.

We have endured several antichrists, from the fathers of the reformation to Hitler/Stalin/Mao in the 20th Century.
That's a troll post right there buddy. That is the spark that ignites a flame war. I'll refrain from posting about my own views on antichrists so that I don't follow your lead in the error of troll posting, and I hope that others would do the same. Simply put: cut it out, Del.
I'm sorry. Look.... the Scripture says that a great many Christians will be pulled away from the Body of Christ by the lure of the antichrists. We are often so proud as to think that we will be smart enough to recognize the antichrist -- but most of us won't.
Del. Seriously. Cut it out.

You want to discuss differences in doctrine, you go for it. But save the antichrist commentary. This is a forum for exchanging information, not insults.
Okay... I think I see what is going on. I don't mean any insult, but it looks like I have to explain myself.

The Protestant Fathers, particularly Luther and Calvin, were very fond of accusing the Roman Pope of being an "antichrist," and encouraging their followers in this practice. I suppose we could say that they were just being trolls and indulging in name-calling.

But I believe they knew exactly what they were doing.

Let's generously grant that the Protestant Fathers were genuinely interested in the good of the Church, as they perceived it. They knew they were breaking up the Church. They saw themselves as surgeons, separating the good flesh from the bad.

So it was critically important for the Protestant Fathers to see the Pope as an antichrist -- because if the Pope was not and antichrist, then they were.

During the early years of the Reformation, one side or the other was following an antichrist. And the Protestant Fathers knew it.
==================================

That was then.

Our understanding now is that all Christians participate in Christ's Truth. And we must join together to face a common enemy: the great secular apostacy.

I'll stop mentioning this, since I really don't want to offend anybody. This is old history to me, and not really applicable to our modern problems. Luther and Nero have both been dead a long, long time.
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Post by twentyoneeight » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:00 am

Del wrote:
Skip wrote:
Del wrote:
ShellBriar wrote:
Del wrote:This is just pure, self-indulgent speculation on my part.

We have endured several antichrists, from the fathers of the reformation to Hitler/Stalin/Mao in the 20th Century.
That's a troll post right there buddy. That is the spark that ignites a flame war. I'll refrain from posting about my own views on antichrists so that I don't follow your lead in the error of troll posting, and I hope that others would do the same. Simply put: cut it out, Del.
I'm sorry. Look.... the Scripture says that a great many Christians will be pulled away from the Body of Christ by the lure of the antichrists. We are often so proud as to think that we will be smart enough to recognize the antichrist -- but most of us won't.
Del. Seriously. Cut it out.

You want to discuss differences in doctrine, you go for it. But save the antichrist commentary. This is a forum for exchanging information, not insults.
Okay... I think I see what is going on. I don't mean any insult, but it looks like I have to explain myself.
First, you don't see what's going on and that's why you mistakenly believed that you had to explain yourself.

I am going to suggest that one reason why you frequently find yourself being reprimanded by Protestants is that you approach matters of Theology in a very patronizing manner. Your understanding of the Roman Catholic Church as the one true Church of Christ seems to lead you to believe that you can say what you wish about Protestants (specifically those of the Reformed bent). This makes some sense as you believe that Protestantism is a heresy and that we Protestants need to return to Christ's Church. The problem is that you also seem to have a dismissive attitude towards many things regarding Protestant theology. This is one reason why you don't make any efforts to learn what it is we actually believe (and whenever you are challenged to do so your response goes something like this: "Until you prove to me that I should study your theology I'm not going to do it!"). I believe that you have been admonished by at least two moderators (JB and Skip) and several Protestants (the list is really too numerous) to cool it on throwing out the heresy remarks. Maybe you should take heed and listen to this counsel.

There was no need to explain the history as Gabriel clearly recognized that, historically, the name calling has gone both ways.
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Post by Del » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:24 am

I'm sorry that I sound condescending. I will try very hard to work on that.

There is a fullness of Truth, a gift from God to us, with sacraments and grace too -- and I want everyone to have it.

I still wish there were more Protestant apologists on CPS, who are "always ready to give a reason for your hope."
1 Peter 3:15 wrote:15But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 16keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
I'm hoping for some John Piper-lite guys, who can answer the questions that are asked at CPS.
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Post by justynblack » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:38 am

Thoth wrote:
sysiphus wrote:
justynblack wrote:People have been seeing the end of the world coming since the beginning of recorded history. There have been times when such an opinion could be justified like during WWI or WWII. The conflicts going on right now have nothing on what we've already been through.
And we are nowhere near the level of Sodom.
Ever been to the Halloween parade in Greenwich Village.
I've been the Halloween party on Castro St in SF. Good times.

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Post by ChildOfGod » Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:38 pm

Del wrote:I still wish there were more Protestant apologists on CPS, who are "always ready to give a reason for your hope."
This seems like code for, "I would like to fight!" Del, do you realize that you are using God's Holy Word to try and draw out your brothers into a fight? Just because the topic of the fight is a Holy matter, it doesn't make the fight Holy. You've got to ratchet it back man.

I'll always be ready to give a reason for my hope, at my house, over pie. You are always welcome there Del.
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Post by Gabriel » Fri Jun 04, 2010 12:41 pm

Del wrote:I'm sorry that I sound condescending. I will try very hard to work on that.

There is a fullness of Truth, a gift from God to us, with sacraments and grace too -- and I want everyone to have it.

I still wish there were more Protestant apologists on CPS, who are "always ready to give a reason for your hope."
1 Peter 3:15 wrote:15But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 16keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
I'm hoping for some John Piper-lite guys, who can answer the questions that are asked at CPS.
Are you serious? How many does it take? I assume you mean you want a Protestant apologist who isn't Protestant?
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