When is sin a sin and to who?

For those deep thinkers out there.
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AlwaysLearning
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When is sin a sin and to who?

Post by AlwaysLearning » Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:16 pm

PipeAndPint wrote: case in point: one of the guys who's causing the most problems at my church right now will sit around and argue that it's a sin not to vote, but never thinks about whether his behavior as a leader in the church is sinful..
Ok, I'll bite. Outside of black and white issues spelled out in the Bible (ie. 10 commandment type stuff, examples Christ gives), when is it right to judge another man's sin? For the above example it appears it is on this man's heart, that him not voting is disobedience to God. I cannot say I feel the same way.

So where is the line? If it is a sin to me is it a sin to you? when or not when? :)

I will now sit back with a pipe and wait for all the wisdom of this forum to pour out (of course many Christians would comment about my sin of tobacco use as we discuss this topic :wink: ).
If you are in God's will, no task is trivial.

“Whoever knows what is right to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin” (Jas 4:17).

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Post by Jasonian » Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:21 am

Is it a sin to argue a point? If so, I know I'm screwed, and so is half of this community.

Is it a sin to not vote? Well that depends.

Is voting a right or is it a duty.. on a legal basis. We are to obey the laws of the land.. but we have the right to NOT vote as well as to vote.

= not voting is not a sin
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Post by Odysseus » Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:06 am

Romans 14
Peace be with you.

+ OD
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Post by PipeAndPint » Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:05 am

if the fellow in question were content to let his coscience dictate his own actions, neither i nor anybody else would quarrel with him - odyssey is right. but what he does is start harping on everybody else who dares to share a contrary opinion that if they don't vote, they are either sinning, or they should move to China.. ugh.

i vote in most elections, but i would never say that it's a sin to obstain. as somebody i know once told me, we ought not use our own consciences to "build fences in other people's backyards" when the matter is not Scripturally clear-cut.
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Post by SinisterHand » Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:28 am

I believe that if something is not a sin but you believe it to be a sin and you do it any way, you have sinned. For example pipe smoking. Of coarse we find no fault in it. But if I thought it a sin, as many do, and did it anyway I would be doing something that I thought was In disobedience to God. Pipe smoking may not be a sin but my attitude in doing so would be.
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Post by Peccator » Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:25 pm

What is sin?
  • 1. A haughty look
    2. A proud heart
    3. The plowing of the wicked
are sin.

At least that's how I'm reading Proverbs 21:4

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Post by SinisterHand » Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:57 pm

I've only smoked one bowl of tobacco this week. THAT has to be a sin.
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Post by PipeAndPint » Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:59 am

SinisterHand wrote:I believe that if something is not a sin but you believe it to be a sin and you do it any way, you have sinned. For example pipe smoking. Of coarse we find no fault in it. But if I thought it a sin, as many do, and did it anyway I would be doing something that I thought was In disobedience to God. Pipe smoking may not be a sin but my attitude in doing so would be.
I think I agree to an extent. Paul's example of food sacrified to idols needs to be remember. But this position is often abused. Say, for example, if somebody thought it were sinful to eat - would we still want to say that it is sinful for them to do so?

That's a silly example, but not as silly as we might think.. at the Last Supper, Christ hands out wine and tells his disciples to drink. Many Christians today refuse to follow this example, claiming that their conscience tells them that drinking wine is wrong. But at some point, even our consciences have to be recognized as sinful and reconciled with Scripture.

My point is this: if Scripture doesn't condemn it, neither we - nor our consciences - should be permitted to condemn it.
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Post by Odysseus » Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:55 am

PnP wrote:
'My point is this: if Scripture doesn't condemn it, neither we - nor our consciences - should be permitted to condemn it.'
So, since pornographic movies aren't condemned in Scripture, they're okay? :P
Peace be with you.

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Post by PipeAndPint » Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:30 pm

odyssey wrote:PnP wrote:
'My point is this: if Scripture doesn't condemn it, neither we - nor our consciences - should be permitted to condemn it.'
So, since pornographic movies aren't condemned in Scripture, they're okay? :P
Lust is condemned, odyssey..
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Post by AlwaysLearning » Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:31 pm

Interesting... Well in the Garden of Eden everyone was naked. :lol:


Anyway, moving on... I think there is a lot more confusion on things that are not black and white spelled out in the Bible, then we care to admit.

I have to laugh at people arguing about how detrimental some things are to life (smoking in moderation, drinking in moderation, etc. ) and they are about 50 lbs overweight and have not seen a treadmill in their life. Seems we should all sit back and make sure self examination comes first. Unfortunately it seems most don't really want to take a hard look at themselves first, it is remarkably uncomfortable.

My 2 cents.
If you are in God's will, no task is trivial.

“Whoever knows what is right to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin” (Jas 4:17).

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Post by John-Boy » Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:46 pm

AlwaysLearning wrote:Interesting... Well in the Garden of Eden everyone was naked. :lol:
Pre-fall, eh? So there was no lust. Then post-fall God didn't slap them around for making coverings with the leaves he gave them better clothes from skins. So put your clothes back on Todd!

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Post by John-Boy » Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:48 pm

AlwaysLearning wrote:...have not seen a treadmill in their life.
Usually you can see it after the laundry gets picked up and put away.

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Post by AlwaysLearning » Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:58 pm

John-Boy wrote:
AlwaysLearning wrote:Interesting... Well in the Garden of Eden everyone was naked. :lol:
Pre-fall, eh? So there was no lust. Then post-fall God didn't slap them around for making coverings with the leaves he gave them better clothes from skins. So put your clothes back on Todd!
crap... ok, I will get dressed now. :oops:
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“Whoever knows what is right to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin” (Jas 4:17).

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Post by Peccator » Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:45 pm

Where is lust condemed? If you're thinking of the sermon on the mount, I'd have to disagree and say that that is lusting after another man's wife or betrothed. I could be wrong but I can't think of any other place in the bible where sleeping with a virgin is called adultery.

The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is Job making a covenant with his eyes not to lust after virgins. That or taking the same principle as the sermon on the mount, applying it to virgins and saying, "If anyone lusts after a virgin, he has already commitied fornication with her in his heart" (then he'd probably have to go marry her and pay her dad a fee:D )

Also, I'd say lusting after you wife is a good thing (I don't know greek very well, but isn't lust just eros?), and I don't think I have commited adultery with her.

I'd say there are good things to lust after and bad things to lust after and then there's a big grey area. I'd put porn in the bad area (as I think we all would) but I don't think we have to take scripture out of context to get there (I'm not saying anyone has taking anything out of context yet, it's just that people tend to do so).

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Post by John-Boy » Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:33 pm

Peccator wrote:Where is lust condemed?
How about:
Galatians 3:5-6 wrote:Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, the wrath of God is coming
Peccator wrote:If you're thinking of the sermon on the mount, I'd have to disagree and say that that is lusting after another man's wife or betrothed. I could be wrong but I can't think of any other place in the bible where sleeping with a virgin is called adultery.
That went over my head. Where did the sleeping with a virgin thing come into play?
Peccator wrote:The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is Job making a covenant with his eyes not to lust after virgins. That or taking the same principle as the sermon on the mount, applying it to virgins and saying, "If anyone lusts after a virgin, he has already commitied fornication with her in his heart" (then he'd probably have to go marry her and pay her dad a fee:D )
Ooooh - are you saying it’s okay to lust after virgins? Since they're not married? I've always thought that those virgins would be someone else's wife at some point - so they fall into the same category as someone else's wife. No pass for me on lusting after the virgins.
Peccator wrote:Also, I'd say lusting after you wife is a good thing (I don't know greek very well, but isn't lust just eros?), and I don't think I have commited adultery with her.
I guess I can agree with that... to the extent that lust is a desire for luvin' :D and doesn't have to be a bad thing. But I think the context of most/all of it's uses aren't about desiring a spouse. To me that's like saying well "for all have sinned... SEE! Jesus was a sinner!"
Peccator wrote:I'd say there are good things to lust after and bad things to lust after and then there's a big grey area.
I think you're trying to redefine a word that has a specific negative connotation.

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Post by PipeAndPint » Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:28 pm

I'm with the LOTR-hater on this one! :P
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Post by John-Boy » Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:47 pm

PipeAndPint wrote:I'm with the LOTR-hater on this one! :P
:wink: I don't really hate it... since I haven't read it or seen it. :D

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Post by PipeAndPint » Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:27 pm

John-Boy wrote:
PipeAndPint wrote:I'm with the LOTR-hater on this one! :P
:wink: I don't really hate it... since I haven't read it or seen it. :D
So what you're saying is that you're hobbophobic?
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Post by kendrck » Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:31 pm

PipeAndPint wrote:
John-Boy wrote:
PipeAndPint wrote:I'm with the LOTR-hater on this one! :P
:wink: I don't really hate it... since I haven't read it or seen it. :D
So what you're saying is that you're hobbophobic?
hmmm ... sounds like a job for the Minister of Political Correctness

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