Definition of Atheism

For those deep thinkers out there.

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Re: Definition of Atheism

Post by Rusty » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:16 pm

Thunktank wrote:
Rusty wrote:
wsblevins wrote:I'm still scratching my head and wondering why an atheist would want to participate in a Christian based forum?


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They're the best forums. The most interesting & important things are often discussed here. Christians readily take on the toughest topics and all remain quite cordial and polite usually. And it's especially interesting because Christians see the world differently than we do. Is there a more interesting basis for discussion? We think this is ideal for good discussions. Diversity of views is very welcome and the forum is most interesting when there is a diverse membership. Also there are subjects of common interest eg pipes and tobaccos and for one of us, evolution (he's an evangelist). BTW there are four of us here with varying degrees of skepticism to agnosticism to atheism. One of the four was a Druid last year. We haven't pigeon-holed his latest worldview variation. Consider us a friendly catch-basin that bridges worldviews.
:lol:

"Christians readily take on the toughest topics and all remain quite cordial and polite usually."

I suppose in Canada you all are nice because you don't readily take on?
It's actually unusual to find discussions on many of the topics we discuss on CPS. Can you recall ever discussing "Saving Cream of Wheat from Hamiltonian Mechanics" with anyone else anywhere at anytime? Unheard of. Only on CPS. There are many topics like that on CPS. Mostly the people we know in real life share or know our views anyway so there is less discussion. We're not exposed to American views when we're talking to other canucks.
Thunktank wrote:And you do know that I never was a Druid right? That was UB's invention of me. You ALL know that right?

I never practiced any other religion other than Christianity. Unless you consider learning about them a practice of them.
Really? I must have missed UB's post and I thought you really were exploring Celtic religion. And here I was 'wearing' Celtic God avatars in encouragement.
Thunktank wrote:I have, for the last three to four years been an agnostic/atheist/nontheist/skeptic/naturalist. There are a few possible untraditional definitions of God I could get behind, but that's just a play on words. Nontheist is the best definition for me. I have played many things for fun around here. I thought you new that. :wink:
Hmmm... nope. I'd like to explore the Japanese religions and beliefs.
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Re: Definition of Atheism

Post by UncleBob » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:32 pm

Rusty wrote:
Thunktank wrote:And you do know that I never was a Druid right? That was UB's invention of me. You ALL know that right?

I never practiced any other religion other than Christianity. Unless you consider learning about them a practice of them.
Really? I must have missed UB's post and I thought you really were exploring Celtic religion. And here I was 'wearing' Celtic God avatars in encouragement.
That's true. It was a joke that Thunktank was in on..wasn't that last year? And he was a Druid, Reformed.

:chili:
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Re: Definition of Atheism

Post by durangopipe » Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:28 pm

It's not the heat.
It's the Druidity.
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Re: Definition of Atheism

Post by Thunktank » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:45 am

Rusty wrote:
Thunktank wrote:
Rusty wrote:
wsblevins wrote:I'm still scratching my head and wondering why an atheist would want to participate in a Christian based forum?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
They're the best forums. The most interesting & important things are often discussed here. Christians readily take on the toughest topics and all remain quite cordial and polite usually. And it's especially interesting because Christians see the world differently than we do. Is there a more interesting basis for discussion? We think this is ideal for good discussions. Diversity of views is very welcome and the forum is most interesting when there is a diverse membership. Also there are subjects of common interest eg pipes and tobaccos and for one of us, evolution (he's an evangelist). BTW there are four of us here with varying degrees of skepticism to agnosticism to atheism. One of the four was a Druid last year. We haven't pigeon-holed his latest worldview variation. Consider us a friendly catch-basin that bridges worldviews.
:lol:

"Christians readily take on the toughest topics and all remain quite cordial and polite usually."

I suppose in Canada you all are nice because you don't readily take on?
It's actually unusual to find discussions on many of the topics we discuss on CPS. Can you recall ever discussing "Saving Cream of Wheat from Hamiltonian Mechanics" with anyone else anywhere at anytime? Unheard of. Only on CPS. There are many topics like that on CPS. Mostly the people we know in real life share or know our views anyway so there is less discussion. We're not exposed to American views when we're talking to other canucks.
Thunktank wrote:And you do know that I never was a Druid right? That was UB's invention of me. You ALL know that right?

I never practiced any other religion other than Christianity. Unless you consider learning about them a practice of them.
Really? I must have missed UB's post and I thought you really were exploring Celtic religion. And here I was 'wearing' Celtic God avatars in encouragement.
Thunktank wrote:I have, for the last three to four years been an agnostic/atheist/nontheist/skeptic/naturalist. There are a few possible untraditional definitions of God I could get behind, but that's just a play on words. Nontheist is the best definition for me. I have played many things for fun around here. I thought you new that. :wink:
Hmmm... nope. I'd like to explore the Japanese religions and beliefs.
I was and continue to "explore" all kinds of religions and philosophies. I do love learning theology and the different models people have about deity. There is inspiration found the world over. I still read the Bible every now and then, I still have much of it committed to memory and find it useful from time to time. Stoicism and Buddhism hold particular importance to my life for different reasons even though both have fundamentally "wrong" assumptions of what things are. Granted, all these very different traditions have their impasses at times, but I think each unveils a piece of real human experience and worthy of respect for what it is. Deity also has reasons for existing in each place it's found. It's a shame and a mistake when nontheists demonize all things religious or try to erase them or ignore them. I'm not sure many do, but we hear most from those that do. And perhaps we are forced into silence about it because we can never embrace their Gods like they (the believers) want us to.
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Re: Definition of Atheism

Post by UncleBob » Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:53 am

Pakistan’s secret atheists
Being an atheist in Pakistan can be life-threatening. But behind closed doors, non-believers are getting together to support one another. How do they survive in a nation where blasphemy carries a death sentence?
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Re: Definition of Atheism

Post by UncleBob » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:30 pm

The new atheists are not atheist enough
I want to criticise new atheists – whether 1.0, 2.0 or 3.0 – from the opposite direction: they aren’t atheist enough. They give an alternative to religion that inherits some of the most important features of religion. In short, they all urge us to have an unquestioning attitude towards some cause or project. They all want us to think of ourselves as little cogs in some giant machine.
Hmm... I wonder what the author's CPS moniker is.

:chili:
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Re: Definition of Atheism

Post by UncleBob » Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:03 am

Good without God? More Americans say amen to that
For the first time, a majority of Americans — 56 percent — say it is possible to be a good person without a religious belief.

So says new Pew Research Center data drawn from two polls conducted among about 5,000 American adults in June and July.

“God is not a prerequisite for good values and morality,” Greg Smith, Pew’s associate director of research, said in a post about the findings. ” … [T]he public’s increased rejection of the idea that belief in God is necessary for morality is due, in large part, to the spike in the share of Americans who are religious ‘nones.'”

Nones now account for about one-quarter — 23 percent — of American adults, up from 16 percent in 2007. But their growth is not the whole story behind the numbers.

In the current poll, Protestants and Catholics were also polled, and 45 percent of them agree that God is not necessary for personal morality, up from 42 percent in 2011.
This is surprising to me.
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

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Re: Definition of Atheism

Post by sweetandsour » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:14 am

UncleBob wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:03 am
Good without God? More Americans say amen to that
For the first time, a majority of Americans — 56 percent — say it is possible to be a good person without a religious belief.

So says new Pew Research Center data drawn from two polls conducted among about 5,000 American adults in June and July.

“God is not a prerequisite for good values and morality,” Greg Smith, Pew’s associate director of research, said in a post about the findings. ” … [T]he public’s increased rejection of the idea that belief in God is necessary for morality is due, in large part, to the spike in the share of Americans who are religious ‘nones.'”

Nones now account for about one-quarter — 23 percent — of American adults, up from 16 percent in 2007. But their growth is not the whole story behind the numbers.

In the current poll, Protestants and Catholics were also polled, and 45 percent of them agree that God is not necessary for personal morality, up from 42 percent in 2011.
This is surprising to me.
I was involved in a discussion about this a couple weeks ago at BSF, wrt the current study of Romans, chapt 1 at that time.

I commented that i had atheist friends that were good folks, give you the shirt off their back, etc.. Apparently God hasn't "given them up" yet. Or maybe the darkening of a heart has various levels.
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Re: Definition of Atheism

Post by Del » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:06 pm

sweetandsour wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:14 am
Good without God? More Americans say amen to that
For the first time, a majority of Americans — 56 percent — say it is possible to be a good person without a religious belief.

So says new Pew Research Center data drawn from two polls conducted among about 5,000 American adults in June and July.

“God is not a prerequisite for good values and morality,” Greg Smith, Pew’s associate director of research, said in a post about the findings. ” … [T]he public’s increased rejection of the idea that belief in God is necessary for morality is due, in large part, to the spike in the share of Americans who are religious ‘nones.'”

Nones now account for about one-quarter — 23 percent — of American adults, up from 16 percent in 2007. But their growth is not the whole story behind the numbers.

In the current poll, Protestants and Catholics were also polled, and 45 percent of them agree that God is not necessary for personal morality, up from 42 percent in 2011.
This is surprising to me.
I was involved in a discussion about this a couple weeks ago at BSF, wrt the current study of Romans, chapt 1 at that time.

I commented that i had atheist friends that were good folks, give you the shirt off their back, etc.. Apparently God hasn't "given them up" yet. Or maybe the darkening of a heart has various levels.
Atheist folks who are raised in a Christian culture and absorb Christian values will behave like Christian atheists. They can easily practice all of the outward habits valued by a Christian society, and be happy.

But when the whole culture turns atheist (such as happens under socialist totalitarian regimes, Nazis & Communists), acts of Christian goodness can get you disappeared in the middle of the night.
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Re: Definition of Atheism

Post by sweetandsour » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:39 pm

Del wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:06 pm
sweetandsour wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:14 am
Good without God? More Americans say amen to that
For the first time, a majority of Americans — 56 percent — say it is possible to be a good person without a religious belief.

So says new Pew Research Center data drawn from two polls conducted among about 5,000 American adults in June and July.

“God is not a prerequisite for good values and morality,” Greg Smith, Pew’s associate director of research, said in a post about the findings. ” … [T]he public’s increased rejection of the idea that belief in God is necessary for morality is due, in large part, to the spike in the share of Americans who are religious ‘nones.'”

Nones now account for about one-quarter — 23 percent — of American adults, up from 16 percent in 2007. But their growth is not the whole story behind the numbers.

In the current poll, Protestants and Catholics were also polled, and 45 percent of them agree that God is not necessary for personal morality, up from 42 percent in 2011.
This is surprising to me.
I was involved in a discussion about this a couple weeks ago at BSF, wrt the current study of Romans, chapt 1 at that time.

I commented that i had atheist friends that were good folks, give you the shirt off their back, etc.. Apparently God hasn't "given them up" yet. Or maybe the darkening of a heart has various levels.
Atheist folks who are raised in a Christian culture and absorb Christian values will behave like Christian atheists. They can easily practice all of the outward habits valued by a Christian society, and be happy.

But when the whole culture turns atheist (such as happens under socialist totalitarian regimes, Nazis & Communists), acts of Christian goodness can get you disappeared in the middle of the night.
Regardless, St Paul says in Romans 1&2 that there is no excuse, and that atheist hearts will eventually turn dark. Paraphrasing here of course. Don't want or need to turn this into a study of Romans, but just saying that Bob's posting reminded me of a recent Romans 1-2 discussion.
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Re: Definition of Atheism

Post by infidel » Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:43 pm

Del wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:06 pm
sweetandsour wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:14 am
Good without God? More Americans say amen to that
For the first time, a majority of Americans — 56 percent — say it is possible to be a good person without a religious belief.

So says new Pew Research Center data drawn from two polls conducted among about 5,000 American adults in June and July.

“God is not a prerequisite for good values and morality,” Greg Smith, Pew’s associate director of research, said in a post about the findings. ” … [T]he public’s increased rejection of the idea that belief in God is necessary for morality is due, in large part, to the spike in the share of Americans who are religious ‘nones.'”

Nones now account for about one-quarter — 23 percent — of American adults, up from 16 percent in 2007. But their growth is not the whole story behind the numbers.

In the current poll, Protestants and Catholics were also polled, and 45 percent of them agree that God is not necessary for personal morality, up from 42 percent in 2011.
This is surprising to me.
I was involved in a discussion about this a couple weeks ago at BSF, wrt the current study of Romans, chapt 1 at that time.

I commented that i had atheist friends that were good folks, give you the shirt off their back, etc.. Apparently God hasn't "given them up" yet. Or maybe the darkening of a heart has various levels.
Atheist folks who are raised in a Christian culture and absorb Christian values will behave like Christian atheists. They can easily practice all of the outward habits valued by a Christian society, and be happy.

But when the whole culture turns atheist (such as happens under socialist totalitarian regimes, Nazis & Communists), acts of Christian goodness can get you disappeared in the middle of the night.
This is too simplistic. Christian acts get you disappeared when they are illegal, like hiding jews from the Nazis or converting Muslims in Iran - and neither of those regimes is/was atheist.

This idea that there is no goodness without god is just as silly to atheists as the idea that all of creation screams out evidence of a creator. It just doesn't compute. Like saying nobody would ever do anything self-sacrificing if the sky wasn't blue.
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Re: Definition of Atheism

Post by sweetandsour » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:24 pm

infidel wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:43 pm
Del wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:06 pm
sweetandsour wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:14 am
Good without God? More Americans say amen to that
For the first time, a majority of Americans — 56 percent — say it is possible to be a good person without a religious belief.

So says new Pew Research Center data drawn from two polls conducted among about 5,000 American adults in June and July.

“God is not a prerequisite for good values and morality,” Greg Smith, Pew’s associate director of research, said in a post about the findings. ” … [T]he public’s increased rejection of the idea that belief in God is necessary for morality is due, in large part, to the spike in the share of Americans who are religious ‘nones.'”

Nones now account for about one-quarter — 23 percent — of American adults, up from 16 percent in 2007. But their growth is not the whole story behind the numbers.

In the current poll, Protestants and Catholics were also polled, and 45 percent of them agree that God is not necessary for personal morality, up from 42 percent in 2011.
This is surprising to me.
I was involved in a discussion about this a couple weeks ago at BSF, wrt the current study of Romans, chapt 1 at that time.

I commented that i had atheist friends that were good folks, give you the shirt off their back, etc.. Apparently God hasn't "given them up" yet. Or maybe the darkening of a heart has various levels.
Atheist folks who are raised in a Christian culture and absorb Christian values will behave like Christian atheists. They can easily practice all of the outward habits valued by a Christian society, and be happy.

But when the whole culture turns atheist (such as happens under socialist totalitarian regimes, Nazis & Communists), acts of Christian goodness can get you disappeared in the middle of the night.
This is too simplistic. Christian acts get you disappeared when they are illegal, like hiding jews from the Nazis or converting Muslims in Iran - and neither of those regimes is/was atheist.

This idea that there is no goodness without god is just as silly to atheists as the idea that all of creation screams out evidence of a creator. It just doesn't compute. Like saying nobody would ever do anything self-sacrificing if the sky wasn't blue.
So you're calling any good act a Christian act. If you hid a Jew from a nazi you'd be in trouble whether you believe in God or not.
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Re: Definition of Atheism

Post by infidel » Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:34 pm

sweetandsour wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:24 pm
infidel wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:43 pm
Del wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:06 pm
sweetandsour wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:14 am
Good without God? More Americans say amen to that
For the first time, a majority of Americans — 56 percent — say it is possible to be a good person without a religious belief.

So says new Pew Research Center data drawn from two polls conducted among about 5,000 American adults in June and July.

“God is not a prerequisite for good values and morality,” Greg Smith, Pew’s associate director of research, said in a post about the findings. ” … [T]he public’s increased rejection of the idea that belief in God is necessary for morality is due, in large part, to the spike in the share of Americans who are religious ‘nones.'”

Nones now account for about one-quarter — 23 percent — of American adults, up from 16 percent in 2007. But their growth is not the whole story behind the numbers.

In the current poll, Protestants and Catholics were also polled, and 45 percent of them agree that God is not necessary for personal morality, up from 42 percent in 2011.
This is surprising to me.
I was involved in a discussion about this a couple weeks ago at BSF, wrt the current study of Romans, chapt 1 at that time.

I commented that i had atheist friends that were good folks, give you the shirt off their back, etc.. Apparently God hasn't "given them up" yet. Or maybe the darkening of a heart has various levels.
Atheist folks who are raised in a Christian culture and absorb Christian values will behave like Christian atheists. They can easily practice all of the outward habits valued by a Christian society, and be happy.

But when the whole culture turns atheist (such as happens under socialist totalitarian regimes, Nazis & Communists), acts of Christian goodness can get you disappeared in the middle of the night.
This is too simplistic. Christian acts get you disappeared when they are illegal, like hiding jews from the Nazis or converting Muslims in Iran - and neither of those regimes is/was atheist.

This idea that there is no goodness without god is just as silly to atheists as the idea that all of creation screams out evidence of a creator. It just doesn't compute. Like saying nobody would ever do anything self-sacrificing if the sky wasn't blue.
So you're calling any good act a Christian act. If you hid a Jew from a nazi you'd be in trouble whether you believe in God or not.
I didn't mean any good act is a Christian act, although I'm sure that could be argued from a certain perspective.
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Re: Definition of Atheism

Post by Rusty » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:11 pm

Del wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:06 pm
sweetandsour wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:14 am
Good without God? More Americans say amen to that
For the first time, a majority of Americans — 56 percent — say it is possible to be a good person without a religious belief.

So says new Pew Research Center data drawn from two polls conducted among about 5,000 American adults in June and July.

“God is not a prerequisite for good values and morality,” Greg Smith, Pew’s associate director of research, said in a post about the findings. ” … [T]he public’s increased rejection of the idea that belief in God is necessary for morality is due, in large part, to the spike in the share of Americans who are religious ‘nones.'”

Nones now account for about one-quarter — 23 percent — of American adults, up from 16 percent in 2007. But their growth is not the whole story behind the numbers.

In the current poll, Protestants and Catholics were also polled, and 45 percent of them agree that God is not necessary for personal morality, up from 42 percent in 2011.
This is surprising to me.
I was involved in a discussion about this a couple weeks ago at BSF, wrt the current study of Romans, chapt 1 at that time.

I commented that i had atheist friends that were good folks, give you the shirt off their back, etc.. Apparently God hasn't "given them up" yet. Or maybe the darkening of a heart has various levels.
Atheist folks who are raised in a Christian culture and absorb Christian values will behave like Christian atheists. They can easily practice all of the outward habits valued by a Christian society, and be happy.

But when the whole culture turns atheist (such as happens under socialist totalitarian regimes, Nazis & Communists), acts of Christian goodness can get you disappeared in the middle of the night.
You don't think that rapture is responsible for the disappearance of Christian folks? In a bad bunch the moral contrast with real Christians has to be glaring. And who knows what instruments God uses to rapture deserving folks?

The regimes you mentioned were rotten personality cults that killed people. Millions of them. The average citizen may not have been like that at all. And I would guess that religion persists through all the hardships that all of these anti-religious societies encountered.

Perhaps a useful exercise is to examine and compare the differences between secular and Christian society or community.
For example, Christians are counseled continually on living a good life. This is a proactive contribution for individuals. Whereas in secular society there is no proactive counseling but rather one seeks or is compelled to obtain counseling after a serious problem has occurred. It's more difficult to rectify problems at that point and it may be that the damage is very serious. Also there are generational problems that are perpetuated across generations that may not ever be addressed. Mentoring offsets this hugely but it isn't common enough in our culture, perhaps because of the presence of Christian communities.
This is one example. There are a lot of differences. There are benefits to being active in a Christian community that do not have an equivalent in secular life. If you compare these honestly and think about the potential behaviour differences you may see symptoms of some of the problems already.
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Re: Definition of Atheism

Post by UncleBob » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:03 pm

UncleBob wrote:
Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:03 am
Good without God? More Americans say amen to that
For the first time, a majority of Americans — 56 percent — say it is possible to be a good person without a religious belief.

So says new Pew Research Center data drawn from two polls conducted among about 5,000 American adults in June and July.

“God is not a prerequisite for good values and morality,” Greg Smith, Pew’s associate director of research, said in a post about the findings. ” … [T]he public’s increased rejection of the idea that belief in God is necessary for morality is due, in large part, to the spike in the share of Americans who are religious ‘nones.'”

Nones now account for about one-quarter — 23 percent — of American adults, up from 16 percent in 2007. But their growth is not the whole story behind the numbers.

In the current poll, Protestants and Catholics were also polled, and 45 percent of them agree that God is not necessary for personal morality, up from 42 percent in 2011.
This is surprising to me.
Something of a follow up opinion piece: The rising belief in moral atheists
Bayle was a 17th-century French Calvinist philosopher of notoriously liberal views. Not only was he all for religious toleration. He believed that atheism didn’t lead to bad behavior.

As he put it in Various Thoughts on the Occasion of the Comet (1682), “[A] society of atheists would practice both civic and moral actions just as other societies practice them, provided that crimes were severely punished and that honor and shame were associated with certain acts.”

Three hundred and 35 years later, Americans seem to be catching up with that view.

According to a Pew survey released this month, a majority of us now say it’s not necessary to believe in God in order to have good morals and good values. Six years ago we were evenly split on the question, 49 percent to 48 percent, but now the “not necessaries” outnumber the “necessaries” 56 percent to 42 percent.
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Re: Definition of Atheism

Post by infidel » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:18 pm

UncleBob wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:03 pm

Something of a follow up opinion piece: The rising belief in moral atheists
Bayle was a 17th-century French Calvinist philosopher of notoriously liberal views. Not only was he all for religious toleration. He believed that atheism didn’t lead to bad behavior.

As he put it in Various Thoughts on the Occasion of the Comet (1682), “[A] society of atheists would practice both civic and moral actions just as other societies practice them, provided that crimes were severely punished and that honor and shame were associated with certain acts.”

Three hundred and 35 years later, Americans seem to be catching up with that view.

According to a Pew survey released this month, a majority of us now say it’s not necessary to believe in God in order to have good morals and good values. Six years ago we were evenly split on the question, 49 percent to 48 percent, but now the “not necessaries” outnumber the “necessaries” 56 percent to 42 percent.
This is a direct consequence of shallow American evangelical gobledegook. Like the classic line "the only thing stopping me from [fill in some crime here] you is my believe in [God|Heaven|Hell]". Of course that's always been nonsense and gives a false sense of what faith is really for/about, so now people are realizing it's false so therefore faith is garbage too. Dumbasses, the lot of 'em.
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Re: Definition of Atheism

Post by UncleBob » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:20 pm

infidel wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:18 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:03 pm

Something of a follow up opinion piece: The rising belief in moral atheists
Bayle was a 17th-century French Calvinist philosopher of notoriously liberal views. Not only was he all for religious toleration. He believed that atheism didn’t lead to bad behavior.

As he put it in Various Thoughts on the Occasion of the Comet (1682), “[A] society of atheists would practice both civic and moral actions just as other societies practice them, provided that crimes were severely punished and that honor and shame were associated with certain acts.”

Three hundred and 35 years later, Americans seem to be catching up with that view.

According to a Pew survey released this month, a majority of us now say it’s not necessary to believe in God in order to have good morals and good values. Six years ago we were evenly split on the question, 49 percent to 48 percent, but now the “not necessaries” outnumber the “necessaries” 56 percent to 42 percent.
This is a direct consequence of shallow American evangelical gobledegook. Like the classic line "the only thing stopping me from [fill in some crime here] you is my believe in [God|Heaven|Hell]". Of course that's always been nonsense and gives a false sense of what faith is really for/about, so now people are realizing it's false so therefore faith is garbage too. Dumbasses, the lot of 'em.
I tend to agree, although I have no direct evidence.
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

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Re: Definition of Atheism

Post by infidel » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:24 pm

UncleBob wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:20 pm
infidel wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:18 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:03 pm

Something of a follow up opinion piece: The rising belief in moral atheists
Bayle was a 17th-century French Calvinist philosopher of notoriously liberal views. Not only was he all for religious toleration. He believed that atheism didn’t lead to bad behavior.

As he put it in Various Thoughts on the Occasion of the Comet (1682), “[A] society of atheists would practice both civic and moral actions just as other societies practice them, provided that crimes were severely punished and that honor and shame were associated with certain acts.”

Three hundred and 35 years later, Americans seem to be catching up with that view.

According to a Pew survey released this month, a majority of us now say it’s not necessary to believe in God in order to have good morals and good values. Six years ago we were evenly split on the question, 49 percent to 48 percent, but now the “not necessaries” outnumber the “necessaries” 56 percent to 42 percent.
This is a direct consequence of shallow American evangelical gobledegook. Like the classic line "the only thing stopping me from [fill in some crime here] you is my believe in [God|Heaven|Hell]". Of course that's always been nonsense and gives a false sense of what faith is really for/about, so now people are realizing it's false so therefore faith is garbage too. Dumbasses, the lot of 'em.
I tend to agree, although I have no direct evidence.
I was on the receiving end of that line plenty of times in my day, and every time it was just another reinforcement to my view that Christians were all IRFs*

*ignorant religious f---heads
Inadvertently emboldening the cause of naïve Evolutionism since 2016.

"Who the hell ponders placentas? Dude, you're a freak of nature." - DepartedLight

"One man's saint is another man's infidel." - hugodrax

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Re: Definition of Atheism

Post by UncleBob » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:30 pm

infidel wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:24 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:20 pm
infidel wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:18 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:03 pm

Something of a follow up opinion piece: The rising belief in moral atheists
Bayle was a 17th-century French Calvinist philosopher of notoriously liberal views. Not only was he all for religious toleration. He believed that atheism didn’t lead to bad behavior.

As he put it in Various Thoughts on the Occasion of the Comet (1682), “[A] society of atheists would practice both civic and moral actions just as other societies practice them, provided that crimes were severely punished and that honor and shame were associated with certain acts.”

Three hundred and 35 years later, Americans seem to be catching up with that view.

According to a Pew survey released this month, a majority of us now say it’s not necessary to believe in God in order to have good morals and good values. Six years ago we were evenly split on the question, 49 percent to 48 percent, but now the “not necessaries” outnumber the “necessaries” 56 percent to 42 percent.
This is a direct consequence of shallow American evangelical gobledegook. Like the classic line "the only thing stopping me from [fill in some crime here] you is my believe in [God|Heaven|Hell]". Of course that's always been nonsense and gives a false sense of what faith is really for/about, so now people are realizing it's false so therefore faith is garbage too. Dumbasses, the lot of 'em.
I tend to agree, although I have no direct evidence.
I was on the receiving end of that line plenty of times in my day, and every time it was just another reinforcement to my view that Christians were all IRFs*

*ignorant religious f---heads
Just trying to be honest. Are you aware of any studies concerning this phenomenon? I would love to read them.
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

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Re: Definition of Atheism

Post by infidel » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:31 pm

UncleBob wrote:
Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:30 pm
Just trying to be honest. Are you aware of any studies concerning this phenomenon? I would love to read them.
Nope I deal strictly with anecdotals :bacon:
Inadvertently emboldening the cause of naïve Evolutionism since 2016.

"Who the hell ponders placentas? Dude, you're a freak of nature." - DepartedLight

"One man's saint is another man's infidel." - hugodrax

"Total. Freaking. Win." - Skip

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