A Coming Persecution

For those deep thinkers out there.
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Re: A Coming Persecution

Post by UncleBob » Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:41 pm

Thank you. This helps me understand the persecution mindset.
Hovannes wrote:Another point of view from Oz courtesy of The Spectator (sounds like persecution to me)



Gay marriage and the death of freedom

Rather than striking a blow for individual liberties, the dogma of gay marriage is stifling them

44 Comments Brendan O'Neill 6 December 2014





Has there ever been a sweeter-sounding, more goosebump-inducing phrase than ‘Freedom to marry’? Everyone likes freedom (even illiberal politicians pay lip service to liberty), and who doesn’t love a good wedding? Marry these two things together (pun intended) and you end up with an endorphin-releasing buzzphrase that will make anyone grin wildly.

So it has been following Senator David Leyonhjelm’s unveiling of the Freedom to Marry Bill. Across Oz, right-minded people who think gays must be allowed to get hitched experienced paroxysms of joy at the introduction of this new phrase into the political vernacular. Sure, those of a leftish bent had trouble computing the fact that it’s a classical liberal politician who’s championing their most beloved cause. But the instant they made peace with this seeming anomaly, they, together with small-l liberals, gay-rights activists and the Age-reading patrons of non-chain coffee shops across the land (well, in Melbourne), were giving themselves adrenalin rushes by whispering those three magic words: ‘Freedom to marry…’

I hate to rain on this fabulous parade, but there’s a massive problem with this happy-clappy rallying cry. And it’s this: everywhere gay marriage has been introduced it has battered freedom, not boosted it. Debate has been chilled, dissenters harried, critics tear-gassed. Love and marriage might go together like horse and carriage, but freedom and gay marriage certainly do not. The double-thinking ‘freedom to marry’ has done more to power the elbow of the state than it has to expand the liberty of men and women.
There are awkward questions the ‘freedom to marry’ folks just can’t answer. Like: if gay marriage is a liberal cause, how come it’s been attended by authoritarianism wherever it’s been introduced?

Consider France. Hundreds of thousands of French people — or ‘bigots’, as the gay-marriage lobby brands anyone who disagrees with it — marched against the legalisation of gay marriage in 2013. And they were beaten and tear-gassed by riot cops. Parisians in t-shirts celebrating traditional marriage were arrested for holding ‘unauthorised protests’. In the words of Parisian writer John Laughland, critics of gay marriage were turned into ‘ideological enemies’ of the French state. It’s a funny expansion of freedom that so violently pummels the right to protest.

Consider America. The authorities there haven’t had to whip out their truncheons because non-state mobs have policed the opponents of gay marriage on their behalf. In the words of the author Damon Linker, a supporter of gay marriage, Americans who raise even a peep of criticism of gay marriage face ‘ostracism from public life’. We saw this with the medieval hounding of Brendan Eich out of his job at Mozilla after it was revealed that — oh, the humanity! — he isn’t a massive fan of gays getting married. Linker says the gay-marriage brigade has created a menacing climate, where the aim seems to be to ‘stamp out rival visions’. Americans who fail to bow at the altar of same-sex hitching, from wedding photographers to cake-makers, are harassed and boycotted and sometimes put out of business. The ‘freedom to marry’ clearly trumps the freedom of conscience.

Consider Britain. One of the first things gay campaigners here did when they won the right to marry was demand Catholic schools be forced to teach that gay marriage is as good as straight; even though they don’t believe this. Screw you, freedom of religion. Perhaps Catholic schools should bring back ‘priest holes’ to discuss their beliefs free from the watchful stare of the gay-marriage lobby, which, in Linker’s words, demands ‘psychological acceptance’ of gay marriage from all.

Why is this alleged freedom so feverishly embraced by politicians who can’t spell the word freedom? There’s David Cameron, demolisher of press freedom; French officials, so allergic to liberty that they won’t let Muslim women wear what they want; Obama, Christendom’s spymaster-in-general. What draws such freedom-fearing rulers to the ‘freedom to marry’? It’s simple: gay marriage has diddly-squat to do with freedom. Rather, this new institution, invented from pure cloth by tiny numbers of sharp-suited lawyers and agitators, is better seen as a Trojan horse for the enforcement of a new morality, one which calls into question the old virtues of lifelong commitment and familial sovereignty and replaces them with the flightiness and flexibility more commonly associated with gay relationships. ‘Gay marriage’ is the lick of paint modern society gives to its own discomfort with the traditional family set-up and its desire to dismantle, or at least dent, that set-up in favour of pushing new, post-traditional, state-defined hook-ups.

Twenty-five years ago, American thinker Christopher Lasch argued that ‘progressive rhetoric has the effect of concealing social crisis and moral breakdown by presenting them as the birth pangs of a new order’. Bingo! There’s no better description of gay marriage. Here, too, progressive-sounding rhetoric is really the dolling-up of our atomised, risk-averse societies’ growing disdain for those deep relationships in which families and communities traditionally socialised the next generation, mostly away from the prying eyes of the state. This is why the gay-marriage campaign is so contradictorily illiberal, so hostile to dissent, and so attractive to petty-authoritarian politicians: because it isn’t about expanding liberty at all; it’s about unilaterally overhauling the moral outlook of the traditionalist sections of society and elevating the commitment-phobic, passion-lite, short-termist values of the chattering classes instead.
Aussie campaigners for the ‘Freedom to marry’ are actually lucky that the PM isn’t cheering their moral crusade. Because this means that when they finally win this illiberal liberty — which they unquestionably will — they’ll be able to present it as a great victory for civil libertarians who bravely took on The Man. When in truth, their victory will be built on the spilt blood of French protesters and the trampled-upon right to dissent of Americans and Britons and the transformation of gay marriage by Western political elites into a new orthodoxy that you question at your peril.

Poor Mr Leyonhjelm — he thinks he’s striking a blow for liberty, when really he’s completing the final act in a pink-tinged tyranny kickstarted by the new authoritarians of the modern West.

This article first appeared in the print edition of The Spectator magazine, dated 6 December 2014 Aus
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Re: A Coming Persecution

Post by Kerdy » Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:03 pm

Onyx wrote:Every time Kerdy links to Fox News I get a bit whiter.
That's awesome. Only you know what it means, but I'm happy for you! :taco:
"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr  ( c.160 )

“Moral principles do not depend on a majority vote. Wrong is wrong, even if everybody is wrong. Right is right, even if nobody is right.” - Venerable Servant of God, Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

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Re: A Coming Persecution

Post by Kerdy » Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:04 pm

UncleBob wrote:
Kerdy wrote:In fact, this guy shows all sorts of steps.

http://www.foxnews.com/archive/todd-starnes/index.html

Like this one you guys say will never happen.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/10/ ... -weddings/

“The other side insisted this would never happen – that pastors would not have to perform same-sex marriages,” Tedesco told me. “The reality is – it’s already happening.”
Wow. Now read the text:
According to the lawsuit, the wedding chapel is registered with the state as a “religious corporation” limited to performing “one-man-one-woman marriages as defined by the Holy Bible.”

But the chapel is also registered as a for-profit business – not as a church or place of worship – and city officials said that means the owners must comply with a local nondiscrimination ordinance.

That ordinance, passed last year, prohibits discrimination based on sexual orientation, and it applies to housing, employment and public accommodation.
Because I didn't already read it?
"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr  ( c.160 )

“Moral principles do not depend on a majority vote. Wrong is wrong, even if everybody is wrong. Right is right, even if nobody is right.” - Venerable Servant of God, Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

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Re: A Coming Persecution

Post by Kerdy » Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:05 pm

wosbald wrote:+JMJ+

Let's cut to the chase …

If there is to be a persecution, there will be one against those who won't affirm Separation of Church and State as an absolute value. But you'll be good, if you can be a proper Reformational Protestant who knows his place.

And if there is to be a persecution, there will be one against those who won't affirm Separation of Material and Spiritual as an absolute value. But you'll be good, if you can be a moral Enlightenment Man who knows his place.
...who knows his place.
"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr  ( c.160 )

“Moral principles do not depend on a majority vote. Wrong is wrong, even if everybody is wrong. Right is right, even if nobody is right.” - Venerable Servant of God, Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

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Re: A Coming Persecution

Post by Kerdy » Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:08 pm

Fixed it for you.
UncleBob wrote:Thank you. This helps me understand the persecution.
Hovannes wrote:Another point of view from Oz courtesy of The Spectator (sounds like persecution to me)



Gay marriage and the death of freedom

Rather than striking a blow for individual liberties, the dogma of gay marriage is stifling them

44 Comments Brendan O'Neill 6 December 2014





Has there ever been a sweeter-sounding, more goosebump-inducing phrase than ‘Freedom to marry’? Everyone likes freedom (even illiberal politicians pay lip service to liberty), and who doesn’t love a good wedding? Marry these two things together (pun intended) and you end up with an endorphin-releasing buzzphrase that will make anyone grin wildly.

So it has been following Senator David Leyonhjelm’s unveiling of the Freedom to Marry Bill. Across Oz, right-minded people who think gays must be allowed to get hitched experienced paroxysms of joy at the introduction of this new phrase into the political vernacular. Sure, those of a leftish bent had trouble computing the fact that it’s a classical liberal politician who’s championing their most beloved cause. But the instant they made peace with this seeming anomaly, they, together with small-l liberals, gay-rights activists and the Age-reading patrons of non-chain coffee shops across the land (well, in Melbourne), were giving themselves adrenalin rushes by whispering those three magic words: ‘Freedom to marry…’

I hate to rain on this fabulous parade, but there’s a massive problem with this happy-clappy rallying cry. And it’s this: everywhere gay marriage has been introduced it has battered freedom, not boosted it. Debate has been chilled, dissenters harried, critics tear-gassed. Love and marriage might go together like horse and carriage, but freedom and gay marriage certainly do not. The double-thinking ‘freedom to marry’ has done more to power the elbow of the state than it has to expand the liberty of men and women.
There are awkward questions the ‘freedom to marry’ folks just can’t answer. Like: if gay marriage is a liberal cause, how come it’s been attended by authoritarianism wherever it’s been introduced?

Consider France. Hundreds of thousands of French people — or ‘bigots’, as the gay-marriage lobby brands anyone who disagrees with it — marched against the legalisation of gay marriage in 2013. And they were beaten and tear-gassed by riot cops. Parisians in t-shirts celebrating traditional marriage were arrested for holding ‘unauthorised protests’. In the words of Parisian writer John Laughland, critics of gay marriage were turned into ‘ideological enemies’ of the French state. It’s a funny expansion of freedom that so violently pummels the right to protest.

Consider America. The authorities there haven’t had to whip out their truncheons because non-state mobs have policed the opponents of gay marriage on their behalf. In the words of the author Damon Linker, a supporter of gay marriage, Americans who raise even a peep of criticism of gay marriage face ‘ostracism from public life’. We saw this with the medieval hounding of Brendan Eich out of his job at Mozilla after it was revealed that — oh, the humanity! — he isn’t a massive fan of gays getting married. Linker says the gay-marriage brigade has created a menacing climate, where the aim seems to be to ‘stamp out rival visions’. Americans who fail to bow at the altar of same-sex hitching, from wedding photographers to cake-makers, are harassed and boycotted and sometimes put out of business. The ‘freedom to marry’ clearly trumps the freedom of conscience.

Consider Britain. One of the first things gay campaigners here did when they won the right to marry was demand Catholic schools be forced to teach that gay marriage is as good as straight; even though they don’t believe this. Screw you, freedom of religion. Perhaps Catholic schools should bring back ‘priest holes’ to discuss their beliefs free from the watchful stare of the gay-marriage lobby, which, in Linker’s words, demands ‘psychological acceptance’ of gay marriage from all.

Why is this alleged freedom so feverishly embraced by politicians who can’t spell the word freedom? There’s David Cameron, demolisher of press freedom; French officials, so allergic to liberty that they won’t let Muslim women wear what they want; Obama, Christendom’s spymaster-in-general. What draws such freedom-fearing rulers to the ‘freedom to marry’? It’s simple: gay marriage has diddly-squat to do with freedom. Rather, this new institution, invented from pure cloth by tiny numbers of sharp-suited lawyers and agitators, is better seen as a Trojan horse for the enforcement of a new morality, one which calls into question the old virtues of lifelong commitment and familial sovereignty and replaces them with the flightiness and flexibility more commonly associated with gay relationships. ‘Gay marriage’ is the lick of paint modern society gives to its own discomfort with the traditional family set-up and its desire to dismantle, or at least dent, that set-up in favour of pushing new, post-traditional, state-defined hook-ups.

Twenty-five years ago, American thinker Christopher Lasch argued that ‘progressive rhetoric has the effect of concealing social crisis and moral breakdown by presenting them as the birth pangs of a new order’. Bingo! There’s no better description of gay marriage. Here, too, progressive-sounding rhetoric is really the dolling-up of our atomised, risk-averse societies’ growing disdain for those deep relationships in which families and communities traditionally socialised the next generation, mostly away from the prying eyes of the state. This is why the gay-marriage campaign is so contradictorily illiberal, so hostile to dissent, and so attractive to petty-authoritarian politicians: because it isn’t about expanding liberty at all; it’s about unilaterally overhauling the moral outlook of the traditionalist sections of society and elevating the commitment-phobic, passion-lite, short-termist values of the chattering classes instead.
Aussie campaigners for the ‘Freedom to marry’ are actually lucky that the PM isn’t cheering their moral crusade. Because this means that when they finally win this illiberal liberty — which they unquestionably will — they’ll be able to present it as a great victory for civil libertarians who bravely took on The Man. When in truth, their victory will be built on the spilt blood of French protesters and the trampled-upon right to dissent of Americans and Britons and the transformation of gay marriage by Western political elites into a new orthodoxy that you question at your peril.

Poor Mr Leyonhjelm — he thinks he’s striking a blow for liberty, when really he’s completing the final act in a pink-tinged tyranny kickstarted by the new authoritarians of the modern West.

This article first appeared in the print edition of The Spectator magazine, dated 6 December 2014 Aus
"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr  ( c.160 )

“Moral principles do not depend on a majority vote. Wrong is wrong, even if everybody is wrong. Right is right, even if nobody is right.” - Venerable Servant of God, Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

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Re: A Coming Persecution

Post by Kerdy » Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:10 pm

UncleBob wrote:
wosbald wrote:+JMJ+

Let's cut to the chase …

If there is to be a persecution, there will be one against those who won't affirm Separation of Church and State as an absolute value. But you'll be good, if you can be a proper Reformational Protestant who knows his place.

And if there is to be a persecution, there will be one against those who won't affirm Separation of Material and Spiritual as an absolute value. But you'll be good, if you can be a moral Enlightenment Man who knows his place.
Wow. Can you demonstrate any time when the US Govt ever did either of these things?

So it looks like folks here are expecting a Catholic-only persecution. Is that about it?
Practice makes perfect I suppose.
"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr  ( c.160 )

“Moral principles do not depend on a majority vote. Wrong is wrong, even if everybody is wrong. Right is right, even if nobody is right.” - Venerable Servant of God, Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

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Re: A Coming Persecution

Post by UncleBob » Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:13 pm

Yes, this does as well. Edit the evidence to fit your worldview. Got it.
Kerdy wrote:Fixed it for you.
UncleBob wrote:Thank you. This helps me understand the persecution.
Hovannes wrote:Another point of view from Oz courtesy of The Spectator (sounds like persecution to me)



Gay marriage and the death of freedom

Rather than striking a blow for individual liberties, the dogma of gay marriage is stifling them

44 Comments Brendan O'Neill 6 December 2014





Has there ever been a sweeter-sounding, more goosebump-inducing phrase than ‘Freedom to marry’? Everyone likes freedom (even illiberal politicians pay lip service to liberty), and who doesn’t love a good wedding? Marry these two things together (pun intended) and you end up with an endorphin-releasing buzzphrase that will make anyone grin wildly.

So it has been following Senator David Leyonhjelm’s unveiling of the Freedom to Marry Bill. Across Oz, right-minded people who think gays must be allowed to get hitched experienced paroxysms of joy at the introduction of this new phrase into the political vernacular. Sure, those of a leftish bent had trouble computing the fact that it’s a classical liberal politician who’s championing their most beloved cause. But the instant they made peace with this seeming anomaly, they, together with small-l liberals, gay-rights activists and the Age-reading patrons of non-chain coffee shops across the land (well, in Melbourne), were giving themselves adrenalin rushes by whispering those three magic words: ‘Freedom to marry…’

I hate to rain on this fabulous parade, but there’s a massive problem with this happy-clappy rallying cry. And it’s this: everywhere gay marriage has been introduced it has battered freedom, not boosted it. Debate has been chilled, dissenters harried, critics tear-gassed. Love and marriage might go together like horse and carriage, but freedom and gay marriage certainly do not. The double-thinking ‘freedom to marry’ has done more to power the elbow of the state than it has to expand the liberty of men and women.
There are awkward questions the ‘freedom to marry’ folks just can’t answer. Like: if gay marriage is a liberal cause, how come it’s been attended by authoritarianism wherever it’s been introduced?

Consider France. Hundreds of thousands of French people — or ‘bigots’, as the gay-marriage lobby brands anyone who disagrees with it — marched against the legalisation of gay marriage in 2013. And they were beaten and tear-gassed by riot cops. Parisians in t-shirts celebrating traditional marriage were arrested for holding ‘unauthorised protests’. In the words of Parisian writer John Laughland, critics of gay marriage were turned into ‘ideological enemies’ of the French state. It’s a funny expansion of freedom that so violently pummels the right to protest.

Consider America. The authorities there haven’t had to whip out their truncheons because non-state mobs have policed the opponents of gay marriage on their behalf. In the words of the author Damon Linker, a supporter of gay marriage, Americans who raise even a peep of criticism of gay marriage face ‘ostracism from public life’. We saw this with the medieval hounding of Brendan Eich out of his job at Mozilla after it was revealed that — oh, the humanity! — he isn’t a massive fan of gays getting married. Linker says the gay-marriage brigade has created a menacing climate, where the aim seems to be to ‘stamp out rival visions’. Americans who fail to bow at the altar of same-sex hitching, from wedding photographers to cake-makers, are harassed and boycotted and sometimes put out of business. The ‘freedom to marry’ clearly trumps the freedom of conscience.

Consider Britain. One of the first things gay campaigners here did when they won the right to marry was demand Catholic schools be forced to teach that gay marriage is as good as straight; even though they don’t believe this. Screw you, freedom of religion. Perhaps Catholic schools should bring back ‘priest holes’ to discuss their beliefs free from the watchful stare of the gay-marriage lobby, which, in Linker’s words, demands ‘psychological acceptance’ of gay marriage from all.

Why is this alleged freedom so feverishly embraced by politicians who can’t spell the word freedom? There’s David Cameron, demolisher of press freedom; French officials, so allergic to liberty that they won’t let Muslim women wear what they want; Obama, Christendom’s spymaster-in-general. What draws such freedom-fearing rulers to the ‘freedom to marry’? It’s simple: gay marriage has diddly-squat to do with freedom. Rather, this new institution, invented from pure cloth by tiny numbers of sharp-suited lawyers and agitators, is better seen as a Trojan horse for the enforcement of a new morality, one which calls into question the old virtues of lifelong commitment and familial sovereignty and replaces them with the flightiness and flexibility more commonly associated with gay relationships. ‘Gay marriage’ is the lick of paint modern society gives to its own discomfort with the traditional family set-up and its desire to dismantle, or at least dent, that set-up in favour of pushing new, post-traditional, state-defined hook-ups.

Twenty-five years ago, American thinker Christopher Lasch argued that ‘progressive rhetoric has the effect of concealing social crisis and moral breakdown by presenting them as the birth pangs of a new order’. Bingo! There’s no better description of gay marriage. Here, too, progressive-sounding rhetoric is really the dolling-up of our atomised, risk-averse societies’ growing disdain for those deep relationships in which families and communities traditionally socialised the next generation, mostly away from the prying eyes of the state. This is why the gay-marriage campaign is so contradictorily illiberal, so hostile to dissent, and so attractive to petty-authoritarian politicians: because it isn’t about expanding liberty at all; it’s about unilaterally overhauling the moral outlook of the traditionalist sections of society and elevating the commitment-phobic, passion-lite, short-termist values of the chattering classes instead.
Aussie campaigners for the ‘Freedom to marry’ are actually lucky that the PM isn’t cheering their moral crusade. Because this means that when they finally win this illiberal liberty — which they unquestionably will — they’ll be able to present it as a great victory for civil libertarians who bravely took on The Man. When in truth, their victory will be built on the spilt blood of French protesters and the trampled-upon right to dissent of Americans and Britons and the transformation of gay marriage by Western political elites into a new orthodoxy that you question at your peril.

Poor Mr Leyonhjelm — he thinks he’s striking a blow for liberty, when really he’s completing the final act in a pink-tinged tyranny kickstarted by the new authoritarians of the modern West.

This article first appeared in the print edition of The Spectator magazine, dated 6 December 2014 Aus
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

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Re: A Coming Persecution

Post by UncleBob » Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:14 pm

Kerdy wrote:
UncleBob wrote:
wosbald wrote:+JMJ+

Let's cut to the chase …

If there is to be a persecution, there will be one against those who won't affirm Separation of Church and State as an absolute value. But you'll be good, if you can be a proper Reformational Protestant who knows his place.

And if there is to be a persecution, there will be one against those who won't affirm Separation of Material and Spiritual as an absolute value. But you'll be good, if you can be a moral Enlightenment Man who knows his place.
Wow. Can you demonstrate any time when the US Govt ever did either of these things?

So it looks like folks here are expecting a Catholic-only persecution. Is that about it?
Practice makes perfect I suppose.
No problem, Torquemada.
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

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Re: A Coming Persecution

Post by Kerdy » Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:21 pm

UncleBob wrote:
Kerdy wrote:
UncleBob wrote:
wosbald wrote:+JMJ+

Let's cut to the chase …

If there is to be a persecution, there will be one against those who won't affirm Separation of Church and State as an absolute value. But you'll be good, if you can be a proper Reformational Protestant who knows his place.

And if there is to be a persecution, there will be one against those who won't affirm Separation of Material and Spiritual as an absolute value. But you'll be good, if you can be a moral Enlightenment Man who knows his place.
Wow. Can you demonstrate any time when the US Govt ever did either of these things?

So it looks like folks here are expecting a Catholic-only persecution. Is that about it?
Practice makes perfect I suppose.
No problem, Torquemada.
Of that I have little doubt.
"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr  ( c.160 )

“Moral principles do not depend on a majority vote. Wrong is wrong, even if everybody is wrong. Right is right, even if nobody is right.” - Venerable Servant of God, Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

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Re: A Coming Persecution

Post by Onyx » Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:33 pm

For the record, I hate when people edit what someone else said (except when it's in trivial funny ways). Deliberately misquoting someone is not "fixing it", it's dishonest.

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Re: A Coming Persecution

Post by Kerdy » Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:45 pm

Onyx wrote:For the record, I hate when people edit what someone else said (except when it's in trivial funny ways). Deliberately misquoting someone is not "fixing it", it's dishonest.
For whose record? Who doesn't do it for trivial fun?
"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr  ( c.160 )

“Moral principles do not depend on a majority vote. Wrong is wrong, even if everybody is wrong. Right is right, even if nobody is right.” - Venerable Servant of God, Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

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Re: A Coming Persecution

Post by Onyx » Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:31 pm

Kerdy wrote:
Onyx wrote:For the record, I hate when people edit what someone else said (except when it's in trivial funny ways). Deliberately misquoting someone is not "fixing it", it's dishonest.
For whose record? Who doesn't do it for trivial fun?
I don't do it. If I have something to say, I put my own name on it, not misrepresent someone else.

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Re: A Coming Persecution

Post by wosbald » Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:32 pm

+JMJ+
UncleBob wrote:
wosbald wrote:Let's cut to the chase …

If there is to be a persecution, there will be one against those who won't affirm Separation of Church and State as an absolute value. But you'll be good, if you can be a proper Reformational Protestant who knows his place.

And if there is to be a persecution, there will be one against those who won't affirm Separation of Material and Spiritual as an absolute value. But you'll be good, if you can be a moral Enlightenment Man who knows his place.
So it looks like folks here are expecting a Catholic-only persecution. Is that about it?
In a sense, sure.

But in another sense, Protestants who recoil at the foundations of the Reformation (and there's no shortage of them, as demonstrated by Emergents) and Pagans/Unaffiliated Postmoderns who refuse paying obeisance to Enlightenment principles (a similarly growing demographic) will be personae non gratae. Of course, doing this will put them into the orbit of the Catholic Church, so the first sense is also thereby affirmed.



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Kerdy
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Re: A Coming Persecution

Post by Kerdy » Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:18 pm

Onyx wrote:
Kerdy wrote:
Onyx wrote:For the record, I hate when people edit what someone else said (except when it's in trivial funny ways). Deliberately misquoting someone is not "fixing it", it's dishonest.
For whose record? Who doesn't do it for trivial fun?
I don't do it. If I have something to say, I put my own name on it, not misrepresent someone else.
I have no idea where you are going with this.
"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr  ( c.160 )

“Moral principles do not depend on a majority vote. Wrong is wrong, even if everybody is wrong. Right is right, even if nobody is right.” - Venerable Servant of God, Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

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Re: A Coming Persecution

Post by Thunktank » Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:32 pm

wosbald wrote:+JMJ+
UncleBob wrote:
wosbald wrote:Let's cut to the chase …

If there is to be a persecution, there will be one against those who won't affirm Separation of Church and State as an absolute value. But you'll be good, if you can be a proper Reformational Protestant who knows his place.

And if there is to be a persecution, there will be one against those who won't affirm Separation of Material and Spiritual as an absolute value. But you'll be good, if you can be a moral Enlightenment Man who knows his place.
So it looks like folks here are expecting a Catholic-only persecution. Is that about it?
In a sense, sure.

But in another sense, Protestants who recoil at the foundations of the Reformation (and there's no shortage of them, as demonstrated by Emergents) and Pagans/Unaffiliated Postmoderns who refuse paying obeisance to Enlightenment principles (a similarly growing demographic) will be personae non gratae. Of course, doing this will put them into the orbit of the Catholic Church, so the first sense is also thereby affirmed.
Isn't everything in the orbit of the Catholic Church for you? Just some things further out in orbit than other things. :lol:

I don't think many of those pagan/unaffiliated would appreciate be considered in the orbit of the Catholic Church. Many of them hopped a space ship to flee it!
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” -Yoda

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Re: A Coming Persecution

Post by UncleBob » Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:50 pm

"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

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Re: A Coming Persecution

Post by Thunktank » Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:07 pm

I shouldn't be laughing because it's really not funny! :lol:
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” -Yoda

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Re: A Coming Persecution

Post by UncleBob » Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:25 pm

Thunktank wrote:
I shouldn't be laughing because it's really not funny! :lol:
Yer a bad, bad man! Shame on you!

:chili:

I'm just curious if Kerdy, Del, wos, hogleg, et al would consider this persecution or no.
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

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Kerdy
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Re: A Coming Persecution

Post by Kerdy » Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:35 pm

UncleBob wrote:
Thunktank wrote:
I shouldn't be laughing because it's really not funny! :lol:
Yer a bad, bad man! Shame on you!

:chili:

I'm just curious if Kerdy, Del, wos, hogleg, et al would consider this persecution or no.
The real question is when you will recognize persecution for what it really is before it's too late.
"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr  ( c.160 )

“Moral principles do not depend on a majority vote. Wrong is wrong, even if everybody is wrong. Right is right, even if nobody is right.” - Venerable Servant of God, Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

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Re: A Coming Persecution

Post by A_Morley » Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:07 pm

I feel compelled to persecute any and all people who continue posting to this goddamn thread.
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