What is Progressive Christianity?

For those deep thinkers out there.
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What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by tuttle » Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:06 pm

UncleBob wrote:
tuttle wrote:
UncleBob wrote:
tuttle wrote:UB, what do you think would be a good summation of what progressive Christianity actually looks like? I think different tribes of Christians use the term 'progressive' in varied ways. I think there is a good general understanding among conservatives about what it means, but it is certainly not unanimous. I do think it would be helpful if you put forward what you think progressive Christianity looks like.
We are discussing Fr.X definition. I am not making his claim.
You are not making his claim verbatim? (...obviously...) or not making any claim to what is or is not to be considered 'progressive Christianity'?

I only asked because I think it's hard for some of us to see from your perspective. You sort of came out swinging against this and you obviously have some degree of understanding of what you consider is (or is not) progressive Christianity in order for you to combat another perspective.
I have an understanding of presenting evidence for a claim. He is working a straw man, which irritates me. Really, that should be enough.

If you want to discuss progressive Christianity then start a thread and pose questions. However, I think that already exists. Maybe that was for "liberal" Christianity.
Ok UB...I started a new thread...now what do you think would be a good summation of what progressive Christianity actually looks like?
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by UncleBob » Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:13 pm

Maybe later.

What do you think it looks like?
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by Del » Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:18 pm

This was my contribution.... the marks of progressivism and why tradition Christianity opposes it.

I did not mention the rejection of biblical authority and the inspired nature of Sacred Scripture, mainly because the cafeteria Catholics are happy to insist that they respect Scripture even as they ignore it.
Del wrote:The progressive movement that threatens Christian faith has several clear positions:
- Okay with divorce and remarriage.
- Okay with contraception.
- Tolerates abortion.
- Affirms homosexual practice.
- Offers sacramental marriage to homosexual couples.
- Tends to speak defiantly against both the biblical principles of Evangelical Christians (slur: "fundamentalism") and the ancient faith of Apostolic Christians (slur: "Catholic tradition").

These are sinful acts. Guys like Fr. Dwight are warning their flock about these deadly things. THESE WILL CREEP INTO YOUR CHURCH, if you are not mindful about preventing them. Catholic parishes are already deeply infected, and people are leaving us as we speak out.
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by tuttle » Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:22 pm

UncleBob wrote:Maybe later.
[img]
...images aren't working for some reason...so I guess I'll just :sigh: again[/img]
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by tuttle » Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:26 pm

UncleBob wrote:What do you think it looks like?
Maybe later. After you answer.
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by UncleBob » Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:29 pm

I dunno. It might be worth looking first at how they define themselves instead of just listing a set of pet peeves:

http://progressivechristianity.org/

http://progressivechristianity.org/the-8-points/
1. Believe that following the path and teachings of Jesus can lead to an awareness and experience of the Sacred and the Oneness and Unity of all life;


2. Affirm that the teachings of Jesus provide but one of many ways to experience the Sacredness and Oneness of life, and that we can draw from diverse sources of wisdom in our spiritual journey;


3. Seek community that is inclusive of ALL people, including but not limited to:
Conventional Christians and questioning skeptics,
Believers and agnostics,
Women and men,
Those of all sexual orientations and gender identities,
Those of all classes and abilities;


4. Know that the way we behave towards one another is the fullest expression of what we believe;


5. Find grace in the search for understanding and believe there is more value in questioning than in absolutes;


6. Strive for peace and justice among all people;


7. Strive to protect and restore the integrity of our Earth;


8. Commit to a path of life-long learning, compassion, and selfless love.
http://www.patheos.com/Progressive-Christian

http://religiondispatches.org/going-neg ... n-arizona/

I am just spit ballin' here, though.
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by UncleBob » Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:34 pm

Here is a list of articles from various positions: http://www.patheos.com/Topics/What-Is-P ... 06-13-2011
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by tuttle » Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:40 pm

UncleBob wrote:Here is a list of articles from various positions: http://www.patheos.com/Topics/What-Is-P ... 06-13-2011
These are great resources. I'm curious to know however, your particular view of or position on Progressive Christianity. I think it would help conversations.
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by Rusty » Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:53 pm

tuttle wrote:
UncleBob wrote:Here is a list of articles from various positions: http://www.patheos.com/Topics/What-Is-P ... 06-13-2011
These are great resources. I'm curious to know however, your particular view of or position on Progressive Christianity. I think it would help conversations.
I think he has already come out on some of them. His discussions with Del bring some of them out. In most cases he distinguishes his view or belief from what is acceptable to him by the rules in play in the country. There is a lot of history on the forum.

Many/most people here do leave many hints as to how they would answer specific questions about the list Del provides, if they're honest. There are certainly folks here on CPS that are progressive Christians on one or more of the issues.

But I'm interested in why it matters whether he provides testimony to his own beliefs. What will you do with that information?? Will it change your view of Bob and the things he posts? How will it help conversations? Will you engage Bob to change his views on these progressive values? Will you drive Bob off the forum? Will you advocate to burn Bob at the stake? 8O

This is divisive stuff.
Last edited by Rusty on Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by wosbald » Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:56 pm

+JMJ+
tuttle wrote:
UncleBob wrote:Maybe later.
Image
Image

I think that you had a Carriage Return after the 1st img-tag.

ImageImage

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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by gaining_age » Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:10 pm

wosbald wrote:+JMJ+
tuttle wrote:
UncleBob wrote:Maybe later.
Image
Image

I think that you had a Carriage Return after the 1st img-tag.

Looks like UB was calling out lack of representative field by the Fr. definition (thus a strawman).

UB was identifying that there wasn't a clarity on a group that is progressive that the Fr. is pointing out-- so Fr. description may have no overlap with an actual group (definition of the strawman). He was acting as the ref:

Image
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by tuttle » Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:32 pm

Rusty wrote:
tuttle wrote:
UncleBob wrote:Here is a list of articles from various positions: http://www.patheos.com/Topics/What-Is-P ... 06-13-2011
These are great resources. I'm curious to know however, your particular view of or position on Progressive Christianity. I think it would help conversations.
I think he has already come out on some of them. His discussions with Del bring some of them out. In most cases he distinguishes his view or belief from what is acceptable to him by the rules in play in the country. There is a lot of history on the forum.

Many/most people here do leave many hints as to how they would answer specific questions about the list Del provides, if they're honest. There are certainly folks here on CPS that are progressive Christians on one or more of the issues.

But I'm interested in why it matters whether he provides testimony to his own beliefs. What will you do with that information?? Will it change your view of Bob and the things he posts? How will it help conversations? Will you engage Bob to change his views on these progressive values? Will you drive Bob off the forum? Will you advocate to burn Bob at the stake? 8O

This is divisive stuff.
I'm asking his particular view because in the last thread he was battling a certain perspective of it and I was curious what his understanding of it was. If he is a card carrying member of progressive Christianity then it would help us better understand and would remove hindrances in the conversation.

As it is, with all of our tangling I don't think he is a card carrying progressive. Im not trying to pin down his theology or to draw a line between us. I'm certainly not trying to be divisive. I'm aiming for clarity. His answers in the previous thread is what provoked my curiosity and he told me to start a thread about it. No witch hunt here.
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by Rusty » Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:19 pm

tuttle wrote:
Rusty wrote:
tuttle wrote:
UncleBob wrote:Here is a list of articles from various positions: http://www.patheos.com/Topics/What-Is-P ... 06-13-2011
These are great resources. I'm curious to know however, your particular view of or position on Progressive Christianity. I think it would help conversations.
I think he has already come out on some of them. His discussions with Del bring some of them out. In most cases he distinguishes his view or belief from what is acceptable to him by the rules in play in the country. There is a lot of history on the forum.

Many/most people here do leave many hints as to how they would answer specific questions about the list Del provides, if they're honest. There are certainly folks here on CPS that are progressive Christians on one or more of the issues.

But I'm interested in why it matters whether he provides testimony to his own beliefs. What will you do with that information?? Will it change your view of Bob and the things he posts? How will it help conversations? Will you engage Bob to change his views on these progressive values? Will you drive Bob off the forum? Will you advocate to burn Bob at the stake? 8O

This is divisive stuff.
I'm asking his particular view because in the last thread he was battling a certain perspective of it and I was curious what his understanding of it was. If he is a card carrying member of progressive Christianity then it would help us better understand and would remove hindrances in the conversation.

As it is, with all of our tangling I don't think he is a card carrying progressive. Im not trying to pin down his theology or to draw a line between us. I'm certainly not trying to be divisive. I'm aiming for clarity. His answers in the previous thread is what provoked my curiosity and he told me to start a thread about it. No witch hunt here.
But what if he was a card carrying progressive? I mean REALLY. That could be why he doesn't like the authors proposal. I know that he objects to the lack of evidence. Where have you heard that before? :wink: But really... since when have Christians cared about evidence? It's about beliefs.... And there are progressives and their beliefs are WRONG. How would that change the conversation? 8O
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by Gabriel » Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:27 pm

I guess I just always assumed that a progressive person (political, religious, whatever) was typically defined as:

"Anyone less conservative than me."

No? :chili:
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by Rusty » Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:32 pm

Gabriel wrote:I guess I just always assumed that a progressive person (political, religious, whatever) was typically defined as:

"Anyone less conservative than me."

No? :chili:
Yes, that's exactly the way I define it. I'm well known as a conservative among some. But... that's just the problem... it fails to tell us whether you are progressive compared to Del, say. Are you a good Catholic? Answer now, don't wait for the translation.
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by tuttle » Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:33 pm

Rusty wrote:
tuttle wrote:
Rusty wrote:
tuttle wrote:
UncleBob wrote:Here is a list of articles from various positions: http://www.patheos.com/Topics/What-Is-P ... 06-13-2011
These are great resources. I'm curious to know however, your particular view of or position on Progressive Christianity. I think it would help conversations.
I think he has already come out on some of them. His discussions with Del bring some of them out. In most cases he distinguishes his view or belief from what is acceptable to him by the rules in play in the country. There is a lot of history on the forum.

Many/most people here do leave many hints as to how they would answer specific questions about the list Del provides, if they're honest. There are certainly folks here on CPS that are progressive Christians on one or more of the issues.

But I'm interested in why it matters whether he provides testimony to his own beliefs. What will you do with that information?? Will it change your view of Bob and the things he posts? How will it help conversations? Will you engage Bob to change his views on these progressive values? Will you drive Bob off the forum? Will you advocate to burn Bob at the stake? 8O

This is divisive stuff.
I'm asking his particular view because in the last thread he was battling a certain perspective of it and I was curious what his understanding of it was. If he is a card carrying member of progressive Christianity then it would help us better understand and would remove hindrances in the conversation.

As it is, with all of our tangling I don't think he is a card carrying progressive. Im not trying to pin down his theology or to draw a line between us. I'm certainly not trying to be divisive. I'm aiming for clarity. His answers in the previous thread is what provoked my curiosity and he told me to start a thread about it. No witch hunt here.
But what if he was a card carrying progressive? I mean REALLY. That could be why he doesn't like the authors proposal. I know that he objects to the lack of evidence. But really... since when have Christians cared about evidence? It's about beliefs. And there are progressives. How would that change the conversation?
First I don't want to claim I know what he believes one way or the other. I was only asking for clarification on his view. I don't care if he is or isn't but it is important for me to be clear that I am not trying to pin down his personal belief system. That's not what I'm doing here and you're making my asking appear as if I'm trying to put the man on trial.

This whole thread was simply an attempt to get an answer on his own terms. He told me to start a thread about it. Walla.

Him dodging the question doesn't reveal as much as one might think. He often dodges and muddles. This thread is an attempt to just get a straightforward answer.
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by UncleBob » Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:38 pm

Gabriel wrote:I guess I just always assumed that a progressive person (political, religious, whatever) was typically defined as:

"Anyone less conservative than me."

No? :chili:
Yes. This. Look at my original statement:
me wrote: I'm curious. I am a progressive Christian--certainly by many's definition here.
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by Rusty » Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:53 pm

tuttle wrote:
Rusty wrote:
tuttle wrote:
Rusty wrote:
tuttle wrote:
UncleBob wrote:Here is a list of articles from various positions: http://www.patheos.com/Topics/What-Is-P ... 06-13-2011
These are great resources. I'm curious to know however, your particular view of or position on Progressive Christianity. I think it would help conversations.
I think he has already come out on some of them. His discussions with Del bring some of them out. In most cases he distinguishes his view or belief from what is acceptable to him by the rules in play in the country. There is a lot of history on the forum.

Many/most people here do leave many hints as to how they would answer specific questions about the list Del provides, if they're honest. There are certainly folks here on CPS that are progressive Christians on one or more of the issues.

But I'm interested in why it matters whether he provides testimony to his own beliefs. What will you do with that information?? Will it change your view of Bob and the things he posts? How will it help conversations? Will you engage Bob to change his views on these progressive values? Will you drive Bob off the forum? Will you advocate to burn Bob at the stake? 8O

This is divisive stuff.
I'm asking his particular view because in the last thread he was battling a certain perspective of it and I was curious what his understanding of it was. If he is a card carrying member of progressive Christianity then it would help us better understand and would remove hindrances in the conversation.

As it is, with all of our tangling I don't think he is a card carrying progressive. Im not trying to pin down his theology or to draw a line between us. I'm certainly not trying to be divisive. I'm aiming for clarity. His answers in the previous thread is what provoked my curiosity and he told me to start a thread about it. No witch hunt here.
But what if he was a card carrying progressive? I mean REALLY. That could be why he doesn't like the authors proposal. I know that he objects to the lack of evidence. But really... since when have Christians cared about evidence? It's about beliefs. And there are progressives. How would that change the conversation?
First I don't want to claim I know what he believes one way or the other. I was only asking for clarification on his view. I don't care if he is or isn't but it is important for me to be clear that I am not trying to pin down his personal belief system. That's not what I'm doing here and you're making my asking appear as if I'm trying to put the man on trial.

This whole thread was simply an attempt to get an answer on his own terms. He told me to start a thread about it. Walla.

Him dodging the question doesn't reveal as much as one might think. He often dodges and muddles. This thread is an attempt to just get a straightforward answer.
Right! He told you to open a thread so that ... progressives could identify themselves because... well, that has yet to reveal itself.
Are progressives Christians ie believe and live in faith? You saw the list Bob posted of folks progressives include. Is that Christian?
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by Rusty » Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:57 pm

UncleBob wrote:
Gabriel wrote:I guess I just always assumed that a progressive person (political, religious, whatever) was typically defined as:

"Anyone less conservative than me."

No? :chili:
Yes. This. Look at my original statement:
me wrote: I'm curious. I am a progressive Christian--certainly by many's definition here.
Uh oh. :scared:
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by tuttle » Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:57 pm

UncleBob wrote:
Gabriel wrote:I guess I just always assumed that a progressive person (political, religious, whatever) was typically defined as:

"Anyone less conservative than me."

No? :chili:
Yes. This. Look at my original statement:
me wrote: I'm curious. I am a progressive Christian--certainly by many's definition here.
This is precisely why I asked for your summary of what you think progressive Christianity is. I don't and haven't viewed you as what I think of as a progressive Christian, but you say you are one...based on other definitions. I'd like to know what you think a progressive Christian is. Im not asking you to identify/deny yourself as one.
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