I think your fear of the label is a bit unfounded. I've tried to go out of my way to make sure you know I'm not trying to pigeonhole you (as you've noted). There are maybe 3 or 4 rather apt labels that have been applied to me (via my comments or from my own admission) and I've yet to see anyone ignore me as 'that silly calvinist' or 'that silly creationist' or whathaveyou.UncleBob wrote:I think you miss the point, Rusty. If I were labeled a relativist, then I could just be ignored as "that silly relativist". Now I have a label so people can just attack the label instead of what I write. tuttle says this isn't his intent but I am curious to see how this plays out with not only him, but the whole board.Rusty wrote:I'm shocked by your post. The really big virtue of CPS is that we're out of reach. We can't hit, burn, kill, or stab each other. All we can do is share points of view. But I'm astonished that the you look for people with whom you share common beliefs so you can do what? Refine the topics that you will share? It's a strange way to behave on a discussion forum with such an incredible collection of odd views. I have to tell you truthfully that I'm astonished that you guys exist in the 21st century. But as long as you do I think the various points of view are fascinating. I wouldn't have you hold back anything.tuttle wrote:Well ain't that somethin. Good on you Bob. I do believe we've broken some ground and this thread isn't all for naught.UncleBob wrote:I am not a moral relativist. I am closer to an ethical subjectivist--Ideal Observer Theory with a caveat. In general, this view is that what is right is determined by the attitudes that a hypothetical ideal observer--a being who is perfectly rational, imaginative and informed--would have (this is gross simplification, of course). The caveat is that the ideal, rational observer would understand scripture as it was intended and in the context in which it was heard, which is impossible to declare with certainty. So, I look for strong textual, historical, archaeological, and cultural evidence as the best means to inform that ideal observer--this is why I am sometimes identified as a religious skeptic. However, good evidence is essential--not fantasy or biased intuition. So, reality is what I rely on rather than imagined or metaphysical constructs--which is why I am sometimes called a Christian Existentialist. Reality is complex and amazing! Often, those constructs are bifurcations--a sure sign that it seldom reflects reality.
I have told you all this without the label. Why? Because as The Philosopher said: "Once you label me you negate me." Which is what tuttle and Del were most likely trying to do in the first place. However, reality is much more complex than the bifurcated relativist vs. absolutist. Even in this case.
I appreciate your explanation. It really does help. I'm not sure if you'd believe it but I do realize that reality is complex and relativist vs absolutist doesn't cover all things. But hey, you can't blame me for shooting and missing the mark a bit can you? What you described simply sounds like a more refined relativist to my ears. Having never heard of anyone subscribing to an "ethical subjectivist--Ideal Observer Theory with a caveat" worldview, I'd say if I were a pitcher it would've been just outside. A fan might have yelled at the ump even.
But in all seriousness, I wasn't trying to negate you. You'll just have to take my word on that I guess. I know people are more than a label.
One thing that is apparent, is that we're not on the same ground. I knew this, just called it wrong. But especially if you lean towards ethical subjectivism. Your statements seem to be more objective maybe then you realize, which I think leads many of us assuming exactly what you're not. But, hey, it's all out in the open now. Take a deep breath. It's new country. Think of all the topics we can avoid now!
Or maybe I'm just not seeing folks do that to me. Sometimes I'm as clueless as a dog to some of the obvious around me. Ask my wife. Maybe I've been pigeonholed but just don't realize it. But I don't think that's the case. I have seen you throw a dinger or two (or twelve) at those with the label 'Catholic', so maybe the fear is that it will be heaped back upon you in vengeance? If so I'll try to stick up for you if I see it.
EDIT after reading ahead a bit: But lets please not play the victim card in this either. ala:
Of course, now that I have been catalogued and categorized...