What is Progressive Christianity?

For those deep thinkers out there.
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by Del » Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:08 am

infidel wrote:My own thoughts, jumbled as they may be...

pro•gress•ive

adj. Moving forward; advancing.
adj. Proceeding in steps; continuing steadily by increments: progressive change.
adj. Promoting or favoring progress toward better conditions or new policies, ideas, or methods: a progressive politician; progressive business leadership.

The unstated inherent assumption is of improvement towards "better" conditions in a particular sphere (religious, political, economic, etc). To progressives, if you're not "progressing" then at best you remain stagnant (conservatives), and at worst you regress to some worse state (fundamentalists). They essentially believe that humans can continually improve our situation and solve all our problems. This is how bad ideas like eugenics originated with progressives, who nowadays would be officially aghast at the idea because they have progressed past that. And why "progressive christians" can support things like gay marriage, because for various reasons they see that as improvement over the old status quo.
Limp conservatism (such as practiced in America during recent decades) is a sort of stagnation. No will or wisdom to it; just a half-hearted resistance to slow down the progressive juggernaut.

Real Conservativism is not stagnation. Such people believe in progressive improvement -- except that they also believe in preserving what is good, and carrying it forward for future generations to enjoy. A culture can carry on like this for centuries -- Like the Christian Middle Ages, which advanced in knowledge, wisdom, technology, art & architecture, governance and virtue -- for a thousand years of relative happiness.

It is the Progressive movements that have brought the greatest rates of killing to humanity in the most recent centuries. Starting with the French Revolution and the Reign of Terror, then world wars and weapons of mass destruction, with concentration camps & genocides, and now we have industrial-scale abortion and euthanasia. Throw in a few communist revolutions, and we count billions of lives lost to Progressivism in just over 200 years.

This could only be achieved by untethering ourselves from the Christian wisdom of past centuries.

Two more rambling points:

1) Progressive is a political term. Progressive Christians, like liberal Christians and conservative Christians, are strongly subject to the temptation of believing that we can find political solutions to our social and spiritual problems.

2) Eugenics was a very bad idea because it involved elimination of undesirable lives rather more than encouraging the desirable lives. The tools to accomplish eugenics were the evil part: Contraception, sterilization, abortion, and euthanasia.

While Progressives shy away from the word "eugenics," they still encourage us to enjoy the same evils. They have not learned.
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by wosbald » Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:14 am

+JMJ+

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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by Del » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:20 am

wosbald wrote:+JMJ+

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Shuit yourself, dood.
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by infidel » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:00 am

Del wrote:
infidel wrote:My own thoughts, jumbled as they may be...

pro•gress•ive

adj. Moving forward; advancing.
adj. Proceeding in steps; continuing steadily by increments: progressive change.
adj. Promoting or favoring progress toward better conditions or new policies, ideas, or methods: a progressive politician; progressive business leadership.

The unstated inherent assumption is of improvement towards "better" conditions in a particular sphere (religious, political, economic, etc). To progressives, if you're not "progressing" then at best you remain stagnant (conservatives), and at worst you regress to some worse state (fundamentalists). They essentially believe that humans can continually improve our situation and solve all our problems. This is how bad ideas like eugenics originated with progressives, who nowadays would be officially aghast at the idea because they have progressed past that. And why "progressive christians" can support things like gay marriage, because for various reasons they see that as improvement over the old status quo.
Limp conservatism (such as practiced in America during recent decades) is a sort of stagnation. No will or wisdom to it; just a half-hearted resistance to slow down the progressive juggernaut.

Real Conservativism is not stagnation. Such people believe in progressive improvement -- except that they also believe in preserving what is good, and carrying it forward for future generations to enjoy. A culture can carry on like this for centuries -- Like the Christian Middle Ages, which advanced in knowledge, wisdom, technology, art & architecture, governance and virtue -- for a thousand years of relative happiness.

It is the Progressive movements that have brought the greatest rates of killing to humanity in the most recent centuries. Starting with the French Revolution and the Reign of Terror, then world wars and weapons of mass destruction, with concentration camps & genocides, and now we have industrial-scale abortion and euthanasia. Throw in a few communist revolutions, and we count billions of lives lost to Progressivism in just over 200 years.

This could only be achieved by untethering ourselves from the Christian wisdom of past centuries.

Two more rambling points:

1) Progressive is a political term. Progressive Christians, like liberal Christians and conservative Christians, are strongly subject to the temptation of believing that we can find political solutions to our social and spiritual problems.

2) Eugenics was a very bad idea because it involved elimination of undesirable lives rather more than encouraging the desirable lives. The tools to accomplish eugenics were the evil part: Contraception, sterilization, abortion, and euthanasia.

While Progressives shy away from the word "eugenics," they still encourage us to enjoy the same evils. They have not learned.
Yeah I mostly agree with a lot of what you say. I count myself on the libertarian/conservative spectrum. I just meant that to a progressive, conservatism is stagnant and fundamentalism is regressive. I would suggest you pick a different term than "progressive" improvement, though, given the word climate we're in. Incremental? Deliberate? Reasoned?
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by Del » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:18 am

infidel wrote:
Del wrote:
infidel wrote:My own thoughts, jumbled as they may be...

pro•gress•ive

adj. Moving forward; advancing.
adj. Proceeding in steps; continuing steadily by increments: progressive change.
adj. Promoting or favoring progress toward better conditions or new policies, ideas, or methods: a progressive politician; progressive business leadership.

The unstated inherent assumption is of improvement towards "better" conditions in a particular sphere (religious, political, economic, etc). To progressives, if you're not "progressing" then at best you remain stagnant (conservatives), and at worst you regress to some worse state (fundamentalists). They essentially believe that humans can continually improve our situation and solve all our problems. This is how bad ideas like eugenics originated with progressives, who nowadays would be officially aghast at the idea because they have progressed past that. And why "progressive christians" can support things like gay marriage, because for various reasons they see that as improvement over the old status quo.
Limp conservatism (such as practiced in America during recent decades) is a sort of stagnation. No will or wisdom to it; just a half-hearted resistance to slow down the progressive juggernaut.

Real Conservativism is not stagnation. Such people believe in progressive improvement -- except that they also believe in preserving what is good, and carrying it forward for future generations to enjoy. A culture can carry on like this for centuries -- Like the Christian Middle Ages, which advanced in knowledge, wisdom, technology, art & architecture, governance and virtue -- for a thousand years of relative happiness.

It is the Progressive movements that have brought the greatest rates of killing to humanity in the most recent centuries. Starting with the French Revolution and the Reign of Terror, then world wars and weapons of mass destruction, with concentration camps & genocides, and now we have industrial-scale abortion and euthanasia. Throw in a few communist revolutions, and we count billions of lives lost to Progressivism in just over 200 years.

This could only be achieved by untethering ourselves from the Christian wisdom of past centuries.

Two more rambling points:

1) Progressive is a political term. Progressive Christians, like liberal Christians and conservative Christians, are strongly subject to the temptation of believing that we can find political solutions to our social and spiritual problems.

2) Eugenics was a very bad idea because it involved elimination of undesirable lives rather more than encouraging the desirable lives. The tools to accomplish eugenics were the evil part: Contraception, sterilization, abortion, and euthanasia.

While Progressives shy away from the word "eugenics," they still encourage us to enjoy the same evils. They have not learned.
Yeah I mostly agree with a lot of what you say. I count myself on the libertarian/conservative spectrum. I just meant that to a progressive, conservatism is stagnant and fundamentalism is regressive. I would suggest you pick a different term than "progressive" improvement, though, given the word climate we're in. Incremental? Deliberate? Reasoned?
In a wise culture, progressive improvement is natural. They keep the good, discard that which is bad or no longer useful, and invent new things for the common good.

The problem with Progressive politics is they assume that anything traditional is just some sort of cultural anchor, holding us back. They put their faith in experts and elite leaders, who impose their vision upon us plebeians for our own good. They insist that their form of progress is "reasoned" and "deliberate," but I have never seen them reflect their actions to see if they have done any harm. It usually takes some form of revolution to fix the problems set in place by ardent progressives.

Look at the history of the Soviet U***n, if you want any easy examples.

I could vote for any Democrat (even a criminal liar like Hillary) who could simply look back and say, "56 million killed since Roe v. Wade.... I think we may have made a mistake."
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by Jester » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:06 am

That boney finger that points and says, "We must take in refugees."
https://youtu.be/j9zIzIePjpo
....this video is very sad. The heart of the prank reveals wicked hearts.
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by Del » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:12 am

That is a sad prank.

Churches are not hostels. They aren't set up to house anybody. They may partner with and support shelters for battered women, homeless families, immigrants & refugees, etc. Or they may have other charities that they support... soup kitchens, Habitat for Humanity, etc, etc. Madison has a charity clinic, financed entirely by donations from local Catholic families, which provides healthcare to uninsured immigrants.

Catholic bishops and Catholic Charities have been very active in charity toward immigrants and refugees. We provide many services to help such families. But calling up a parish church in Ohio and asking them to take in a refugee family TODAY.... and then accusing them of being hypocritical for not having beds... is just stupid.

There was a time, 4 or 5 decades ago, when local churches would sponsor immigrant families and help to integrate into our communities. Churches used to do that. We could do that again.

But somewhere along the way, Americans got the idea that this sort of charity was supposed to be the government's job. I am hoping that, among of the reforms of the Trump era, we will see more partnering again of government with local churches and charities.
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by Goose55 » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:22 am

Here's a word picture of "progressive" Christians....

16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked

Revelation 3:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by hugodrax » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:28 am

Goose55 wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:22 am
Here's a word picture of "progressive" Christians....

16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked

Revelation 3:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
Huh. I thought they read the Message Bible. :P No good comes of this. Thou shalt invoke the wrath of Bob. Nobody wants the wrath of Bob.
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by Hovannes » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:45 am

Goose55 wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:22 am
Here's a word picture of "progressive" Christians....

16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.



Revelation 3:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
I first thought that this thread would be about that brand of canned soup.
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by Goose55 » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:07 am

hugodrax wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:28 am
Goose55 wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:22 am
Here's a word picture of "progressive" Christians....

16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked

Revelation 3:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
Huh. I thought they read the Message Bible. :P No good comes of this. Thou shalt invoke the wrath of Bob. Nobody wants the wrath of Bob.
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by Nature of a Man » Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:52 pm

From what little I've seen, most of what's referred to as "Progressive Christianity" isn't like Christianity, and is probably more akin to something like "Liberal Judaism" pretending to be Christianity, perhaps intermingled with some Secular Humanism to create a rather... interesting concoction.

It might be akin to something like me loosely calling myself a "Darwinist", even if the only thing about Darwin that I actually found agreeable was he had a cool beard, and was otherwise the opposite of him on many core beliefs.

Unitarians are another sect which I sometimes hear described as "Christianity", but very closely resembles what I described above.

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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by Goose55 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:58 am

I think the Devil sought to make Christ "progressive" while He suffered deprivation for 40 days in the wilderness. Progressive in terms of "help yourself." What was Christ's response to that? The answer to that is our answer as well.
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by Adam Z » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:56 am

Progressive Christianity...

Examples of the leaders of Progressive christianity: Rob Bell, Mike McHargue (basically any hosts or featured guests on The Liturgists podcast), The guys on the "Bad Christian" podcast, Peter Enns, Jen Hatmaker, Rachel Held Evans, etc. Also the leadership of Bethel Church & Hillsong. There are others, but these are some of the noteworthy ones that come to my mind.

Progressive Christianity is tough to define, because there isn’t a creed or list of beliefs that progressive Christians officially unite around. However, progressive Christians tend to reject the historic biblical understanding of marriage and sexuality, and generally deny or redefine doctrines such as the atonement and biblical authority.

Progressive Christianity, at it's core, holds a low view of scripture, and redefines it as according to what the reader is comfortable with. When you evict the Bible as being authoritative, that authority will generally shift onto self. Personal conscience, opinion & preference becomes the lens through which life and morality is evaluated and interpreted. Don't like those verses that call same-sex relationships sinful - well, we can find a way to rationalize and explain those away, and after all - that's what PAUL said, but JESUS didn't condemn homosexuality... Yeah, scripture teaches complementarianism, but that doesn't really jive with my egalitarian feminist ideology, so those parts of the Bible must have just been cultural - women can totally be the heads of their households, churches, etc. And while mercy ministries are good and biblical, it seems that progressive christianity has become so focused on social justice that the gospel often takes a backseat to the sociopolitical messaging ("Jesus was a homeless refugee who preached socialism, etc.").

This hyper-politicized christianity (which, I should add, is also found outside of progressive christianity) reflects failure of eschatological vision - All hinges on the NOW because they don't see our "not yet" identity.
I tend to find the doctrinal books often more helpful in devotion than the devotional books.... I believe that many who find that "nothing happens" when they sit down, or kneel down, to a book of devotion, would find that the heart sings unbidden while they are working their way through a rough bit of theology with a pipe in their teeth and a pencil in their hand.
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by UncleBob » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:19 am

LOL!

It is truly amazing how few people here, when opining on some subject, fail to ask themselves this question: "I wonder how those folks define themselves?" Of course, Skip's Axiom is in play, I suppose.

https://progressivechristianity.org/the-8-points/
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by Jester » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:25 am

UncleBob wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:19 am
LOL!

It is truly amazing how few people here, when opining on some subject, fail to ask themselves this question: "I wonder how those folks define themselves?" Of course, Skip's Axiom is in play, I suppose.

https://progressivechristianity.org/the-8-points/
Progressive Christianity is Buddhism?
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by Adam Z » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:39 am

UncleBob wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:19 am
LOL!

It is truly amazing how few people here, when opining on some subject, fail to ask themselves this question: "I wonder how those folks define themselves?" Of course, Skip's Axiom is in play, I suppose.

https://progressivechristianity.org/the-8-points/
I think there are a lot of people who ascribe to progressive christianity without realizing that it is progressive christianity - or calling it by that name. Likewise, there are varying degrees of progressiveness among different pastors, teachers, congregations, etc.
I tend to find the doctrinal books often more helpful in devotion than the devotional books.... I believe that many who find that "nothing happens" when they sit down, or kneel down, to a book of devotion, would find that the heart sings unbidden while they are working their way through a rough bit of theology with a pipe in their teeth and a pencil in their hand.
- C.S. Lewis

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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by Adam Z » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:45 am

2. Affirm that the teachings of Jesus provide but one of many ways to experience the Sacredness and Oneness of life, and that we can draw from diverse sources of wisdom in our spiritual journey;
So, they affirm the teachings of Jesus, but apparently not John 14:6, as to do so would conflict with Progressive Christianity axiom #2. So again, we're back to picking and choosing to believe and follow only those parts of scripture that make us feel all warm, fuzzy & special.
I tend to find the doctrinal books often more helpful in devotion than the devotional books.... I believe that many who find that "nothing happens" when they sit down, or kneel down, to a book of devotion, would find that the heart sings unbidden while they are working their way through a rough bit of theology with a pipe in their teeth and a pencil in their hand.
- C.S. Lewis

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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by tuttle » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:53 am

Adam Z wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:39 am
UncleBob wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:19 am
LOL!

It is truly amazing how few people here, when opining on some subject, fail to ask themselves this question: "I wonder how those folks define themselves?" Of course, Skip's Axiom is in play, I suppose.

https://progressivechristianity.org/the-8-points/
I think there are a lot of people who ascribe to progressive christianity without realizing that it is progressive christianity - or calling it by that name. Likewise, there are varying degrees of progressiveness among different pastors, teachers, congregations, etc.
Don't mind UB, being an ethical subjectivist--Ideal Observer Theory with a caveat, he's a little sensitive about all of this. And labels too.
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Re: What is Progressive Christianity?

Post by hugodrax » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:55 am

Jester wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:25 am
UncleBob wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:19 am
LOL!

It is truly amazing how few people here, when opining on some subject, fail to ask themselves this question: "I wonder how those folks define themselves?" Of course, Skip's Axiom is in play, I suppose.

https://progressivechristianity.org/the-8-points/
Progressive Christianity is Buddhism?
I dont think they'd tie themselves down to just one path, do you?
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