A Serious Problem

For those deep thinkers out there.

Moderator: tuttle

Post Reply
User avatar
UncleBob
CPS Theological Dogmatician
CPS Theological Dogmatician
Posts: 33711
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:00 pm
Location: Lubbock, TX USA
Contact:

A Serious Problem

Post by UncleBob » Wed Aug 24, 2016 2:30 pm

More Americans Are Turning Their Backs on Religion, and Here's Why

It isn't any news that Americans are moving away from religion but I found this to be particularly disturbing:
About 20 percent of people who left their childhood faith oppose organized religion generally. "I think that more harm has been done in the name of religion than any other area," one respondent said. "I think religion is not a religion anymore. It's a business... it's all about money," said another.
That right there could really hurt Christianity in the long term, IMO. So what can we do to change that? Any thoughts?
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

User avatar
gaining_age
What's-his-name - President: Devo Fan Club Intl
What's-his-name - President: Devo Fan Club Intl
Posts: 15398
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:00 pm
Location: sun soaked Arizona

Re: A Serious Problem

Post by gaining_age » Wed Aug 24, 2016 2:34 pm

Get back to the Gospel and genuine discipleship. Churchism won't last-- genuine hearts will.

If the church isn't teaching truth of the Gospel... move on and put energy to where it is.
Out of control odd rare old man (or possibly an hobbyist). -- Label by The Big R.
The 6s of 1st John:
2:6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus walked
3:6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning

User avatar
UncleBob
CPS Theological Dogmatician
CPS Theological Dogmatician
Posts: 33711
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:00 pm
Location: Lubbock, TX USA
Contact:

Re: A Serious Problem

Post by UncleBob » Wed Aug 24, 2016 2:40 pm

gaining_age wrote:Get back to the Gospel and genuine discipleship. Churchism won't last-- genuine hearts will.

If the church isn't teaching truth of the Gospel... move on and put energy to where it is.
There seems to be big business surrounding Christianity even in discipleship. Bibles, books, vestments, hymnals, education, and so on all have companies dedicated to selling those items even to the most devout followers. I have no answer or idea what that answer may look like but that really could harm American Christianity, I think. It's one thing to say "religion has been commoditized" and quite another to say "religion is just another commodity".
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

User avatar
Thunktank
Terminal Lance. Perpetual Sea Lawyer. Unicorn Aficionado
Terminal Lance.  Perpetual Sea Lawyer. Unicorn Aficionado
Posts: 21357
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Texas Bound

Re: A Serious Problem

Post by Thunktank » Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:02 pm

UncleBob wrote:More Americans Are Turning Their Backs on Religion, and Here's Why

It isn't any news that Americans are moving away from religion but I found this to be particularly disturbing:
About 20 percent of people who left their childhood faith oppose organized religion generally. "I think that more harm has been done in the name of religion than any other area," one respondent said. "I think religion is not a religion anymore. It's a business... it's all about money," said another.
That right there could really hurt Christianity in the long term, IMO. So what can we do to change that? Any thoughts?
That's not really why, this is a symptom of the root cause. Perhaps this is what people identify as the problem, but people are realizing that the ideals religions have put forth are incapable of producing the desired results. It's not believable. The question I have is, what are we going to be like without faith?
Image

User avatar
UncleBob
CPS Theological Dogmatician
CPS Theological Dogmatician
Posts: 33711
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:00 pm
Location: Lubbock, TX USA
Contact:

Re: A Serious Problem

Post by UncleBob » Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:07 pm

Thunktank wrote:
UncleBob wrote:More Americans Are Turning Their Backs on Religion, and Here's Why

It isn't any news that Americans are moving away from religion but I found this to be particularly disturbing:
About 20 percent of people who left their childhood faith oppose organized religion generally. "I think that more harm has been done in the name of religion than any other area," one respondent said. "I think religion is not a religion anymore. It's a business... it's all about money," said another.
That right there could really hurt Christianity in the long term, IMO. So what can we do to change that? Any thoughts?
That's not really why, this is a symptom of the root cause. Perhaps this is what people identify as the problem, but people are realizing that the ideals religions have put forth are incapable of producing the desired results. It's not believable. The question I have is, what are we going to be like without faith?
I am not sure what you mean by this. Could you elaborate? For instance, one ideal of most modern religions is to "love your neighbor" (in whatever version you find it). Do you think that will die off?
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

User avatar
gaining_age
What's-his-name - President: Devo Fan Club Intl
What's-his-name - President: Devo Fan Club Intl
Posts: 15398
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:00 pm
Location: sun soaked Arizona

Re: A Serious Problem

Post by gaining_age » Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:23 pm

UncleBob wrote:
Thunktank wrote:
UncleBob wrote:More Americans Are Turning Their Backs on Religion, and Here's Why

It isn't any news that Americans are moving away from religion but I found this to be particularly disturbing:
About 20 percent of people who left their childhood faith oppose organized religion generally. "I think that more harm has been done in the name of religion than any other area," one respondent said. "I think religion is not a religion anymore. It's a business... it's all about money," said another.
That right there could really hurt Christianity in the long term, IMO. So what can we do to change that? Any thoughts?
That's not really why, this is a symptom of the root cause. Perhaps this is what people identify as the problem, but people are realizing that the ideals religions have put forth are incapable of producing the desired results. It's not believable. The question I have is, what are we going to be like without faith?
I am not sure what you mean by this. Could you elaborate? For instance, one ideal of most modern religions is to "love your neighbor" (in whatever version you find it). Do you think that will die off?

Your question reminds me of Gamaliel's comments in Acts 5:

38 “We should keep away from these men for now. We should leave them alone. I can guarantee that if the plan they put into action is of human origin, it will fail. 39 However, if it’s from God, you won’t be able to stop them. You may even discover that you’re fighting against God.”
Out of control odd rare old man (or possibly an hobbyist). -- Label by The Big R.
The 6s of 1st John:
2:6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus walked
3:6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning

User avatar
hugodrax
All Around Nice Guy
All Around Nice Guy
Posts: 16268
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:00 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: A Serious Problem

Post by hugodrax » Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:25 pm

UncleBob wrote:
Thunktank wrote:
UncleBob wrote:More Americans Are Turning Their Backs on Religion, and Here's Why

It isn't any news that Americans are moving away from religion but I found this to be particularly disturbing:
About 20 percent of people who left their childhood faith oppose organized religion generally. "I think that more harm has been done in the name of religion than any other area," one respondent said. "I think religion is not a religion anymore. It's a business... it's all about money," said another.
That right there could really hurt Christianity in the long term, IMO. So what can we do to change that? Any thoughts?
That's not really why, this is a symptom of the root cause. Perhaps this is what people identify as the problem, but people are realizing that the ideals religions have put forth are incapable of producing the desired results. It's not believable. The question I have is, what are we going to be like without faith?
I am not sure what you mean by this. Could you elaborate? For instance, one ideal of most modern religions is to "love your neighbor" (in whatever version you find it). Do you think that will die off?
Have you been outside lately? Complimented a stranger? Said how d'ye do to a passing lady? It's pretty dead already. I think Thunk is right on.

Also, that last sentence was extraordinarily fun to type.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

User avatar
gaining_age
What's-his-name - President: Devo Fan Club Intl
What's-his-name - President: Devo Fan Club Intl
Posts: 15398
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:00 pm
Location: sun soaked Arizona

Re: A Serious Problem

Post by gaining_age » Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:27 pm

hugodrax wrote:
UncleBob wrote:
Thunktank wrote:
UncleBob wrote:More Americans Are Turning Their Backs on Religion, and Here's Why

It isn't any news that Americans are moving away from religion but I found this to be particularly disturbing:
About 20 percent of people who left their childhood faith oppose organized religion generally. "I think that more harm has been done in the name of religion than any other area," one respondent said. "I think religion is not a religion anymore. It's a business... it's all about money," said another.
That right there could really hurt Christianity in the long term, IMO. So what can we do to change that? Any thoughts?
That's not really why, this is a symptom of the root cause. Perhaps this is what people identify as the problem, but people are realizing that the ideals religions have put forth are incapable of producing the desired results. It's not believable. The question I have is, what are we going to be like without faith?
I am not sure what you mean by this. Could you elaborate? For instance, one ideal of most modern religions is to "love your neighbor" (in whatever version you find it). Do you think that will die off?
Have you been outside lately? Complimented a stranger? Said how d'ye do to a passing lady? It's pretty dead already. I think Thunk is right on.

Also, that last sentence was extraordinarily fun to type.
Did you thank Thunk for what he did think?

<I wanted to try the fun>
Out of control odd rare old man (or possibly an hobbyist). -- Label by The Big R.
The 6s of 1st John:
2:6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus walked
3:6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning

User avatar
UncleBob
CPS Theological Dogmatician
CPS Theological Dogmatician
Posts: 33711
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:00 pm
Location: Lubbock, TX USA
Contact:

Re: A Serious Problem

Post by UncleBob » Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:31 pm

hugodrax wrote:
UncleBob wrote:
Thunktank wrote:
UncleBob wrote:More Americans Are Turning Their Backs on Religion, and Here's Why

It isn't any news that Americans are moving away from religion but I found this to be particularly disturbing:
About 20 percent of people who left their childhood faith oppose organized religion generally. "I think that more harm has been done in the name of religion than any other area," one respondent said. "I think religion is not a religion anymore. It's a business... it's all about money," said another.
That right there could really hurt Christianity in the long term, IMO. So what can we do to change that? Any thoughts?
That's not really why, this is a symptom of the root cause. Perhaps this is what people identify as the problem, but people are realizing that the ideals religions have put forth are incapable of producing the desired results. It's not believable. The question I have is, what are we going to be like without faith?
I am not sure what you mean by this. Could you elaborate? For instance, one ideal of most modern religions is to "love your neighbor" (in whatever version you find it). Do you think that will die off?
Have you been outside lately? Complimented a stranger? Said how d'ye do to a passing lady? It's pretty dead already. I think Thunk is right on.

Also, that last sentence was extraordinarily fun to type.
Hmm... I guess I associated that more with being polite. When I think of love your neighbor, I think more of the Good Samaritan, although I suppose either could be apropos.
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

User avatar
Thunktank
Terminal Lance. Perpetual Sea Lawyer. Unicorn Aficionado
Terminal Lance.  Perpetual Sea Lawyer. Unicorn Aficionado
Posts: 21357
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Texas Bound

Re: A Serious Problem

Post by Thunktank » Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:38 pm

UncleBob wrote:
Thunktank wrote:
UncleBob wrote:More Americans Are Turning Their Backs on Religion, and Here's Why

It isn't any news that Americans are moving away from religion but I found this to be particularly disturbing:
About 20 percent of people who left their childhood faith oppose organized religion generally. "I think that more harm has been done in the name of religion than any other area," one respondent said. "I think religion is not a religion anymore. It's a business... it's all about money," said another.
That right there could really hurt Christianity in the long term, IMO. So what can we do to change that? Any thoughts?
That's not really why, this is a symptom of the root cause. Perhaps this is what people identify as the problem, but people are realizing that the ideals religions have put forth are incapable of producing the desired results. It's not believable. The question I have is, what are we going to be like without faith?
I am not sure what you mean by this. Could you elaborate? For instance, one ideal of most modern religions is to "love your neighbor" (in whatever version you find it). Do you think that will die off?
Yes, it could to a large degree. We are humans, we need hope and faith (belief in something great). We need to find it in something whether it be in Christ at a church or as a Wiccan in a coven or whatever. Many people aren't aren't believing anything, and I think it's because they don't have believable things to believe, because they don't know what it is. So even if they go to church, they go for entertainment more than they go to "believe." Therefore the churches run like businesses in competition with the movie theater, both of which are in danger of technology that brings both forms of entertainment into our private homes.
Image

User avatar
hugodrax
All Around Nice Guy
All Around Nice Guy
Posts: 16268
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:00 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: A Serious Problem

Post by hugodrax » Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:57 pm

UncleBob wrote:
hugodrax wrote:
UncleBob wrote:
Thunktank wrote:
UncleBob wrote:More Americans Are Turning Their Backs on Religion, and Here's Why

It isn't any news that Americans are moving away from religion but I found this to be particularly disturbing:
About 20 percent of people who left their childhood faith oppose organized religion generally. "I think that more harm has been done in the name of religion than any other area," one respondent said. "I think religion is not a religion anymore. It's a business... it's all about money," said another.
That right there could really hurt Christianity in the long term, IMO. So what can we do to change that? Any thoughts?
That's not really why, this is a symptom of the root cause. Perhaps this is what people identify as the problem, but people are realizing that the ideals religions have put forth are incapable of producing the desired results. It's not believable. The question I have is, what are we going to be like without faith?
I am not sure what you mean by this. Could you elaborate? For instance, one ideal of most modern religions is to "love your neighbor" (in whatever version you find it). Do you think that will die off?
Have you been outside lately? Complimented a stranger? Said how d'ye do to a passing lady? It's pretty dead already. I think Thunk is right on.

Also, that last sentence was extraordinarily fun to type.
Hmm... I guess I associated that more with being polite. When I think of love your neighbor, I think more of the Good Samaritan, although I suppose either could be apropos.
Not saying I'm right, but I've noticed that when people are happy, you notice it. They talk or smile at you when you pass, excuse themselves politely if you accidentally touch or stop to let them pass. When people are happy, you see love. Right now, at least here, people are really stressed. They're getting squeezed economically, are sleep deprived and exhausted by their responsibilities. They aren't happy and they aren't full of love and faith doesn't fix it.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

User avatar
durangopipe
Under-secretary to the Minister of Pipe Breaking
Under-secretary to the Minister of Pipe Breaking
Posts: 5273
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:58 pm
Location: Southwest Colorado

Re: A Serious Problem

Post by durangopipe » Wed Aug 24, 2016 4:35 pm

UncleBob wrote:
gaining_age wrote:Get back to the Gospel and genuine discipleship. Churchism won't last-- genuine hearts will.

If the church isn't teaching truth of the Gospel... move on and put energy to where it is.
There seems to be big business surrounding Christianity even in discipleship. Bibles, books, vestments, hymnals, education, and so on all have companies dedicated to selling those items even to the most devout followers. I have no answer or idea what that answer may look like but that really could harm American Christianity, I think. It's one thing to say "religion has been commoditized" and quite another to say "religion is just another commodity".

Now deceased church historian and theologian, Robert Webber, addressed this very question in a history of the modern Evangelical Church in America titled, The Younger Evangelicals. I highly recommend it.I know it was hugely influenced by his experiences with his many students.

A quick summary would be:

The modern Evangelical Church in America went through three phases (this is a gross simplification of both the history and the book):

1) Characterized by an emphasis on apologetics and reason (where young Evangelicals were when I first met Bob)
2) Characterized by the material and emotional benefits accruing to the believer (Mega-churches, The Happy Church)
3) Characterized by discipleship and a mission, community and a sense belonging--and as a consequence almost of necessity, smaller churches (The Post-modern Church)

Bob argued that while those attracted to the Evangelical Church for reasons primarily associated with the first two sets of emphases have left or are leaving the church. Those attracted to the church for reasons associated with the third set will remain church goers and such churches will grow in number.

I believe every Evangelical pastor should read the book. (And every TV celebrity pastor would be chastised by it.)
The book was published in 2002.
. . . be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you. Ephesians 4:32 (NKJV)

The most improper job of any man, even saints, is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity.. J.R.R. Tolkien

2017 Morley - Outstanding BRATASS of the Year

User avatar
Rusty
In Memoriam
Posts: 25059
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Beelzebub's Rare Tobacco Emporium

Re: A Serious Problem

Post by Rusty » Wed Aug 24, 2016 4:50 pm

UncleBob wrote:More Americans Are Turning Their Backs on Religion, and Here's Why

It isn't any news that Americans are moving away from religion but I found this to be particularly disturbing:
About 20 percent of people who left their childhood faith oppose organized religion generally. "I think that more harm has been done in the name of religion than any other area," one respondent said. "I think religion is not a religion anymore. It's a business... it's all about money," said another.
That right there could really hurt Christianity in the long term, IMO. So what can we do to change that? Any thoughts?
Ah Bob, if the declining trend persists then in the long term this problem goes away on its own because the market vanishes. This is the kind of high grade problem most markets dream about. It's a symptom that you have a large market. Don't go after symptoms.

Better to focus on the big problems that account for a lot more of the unaffiliated. Here's the set - draw up a pew.

Image

And here are the comments are only examples...

Image

Pew article.. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... on-behind/
Last edited by Rusty on Wed Aug 24, 2016 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
You're out of the woods
You're out of the dark
You're out of the night
Step into the sun
Step into the light

User avatar
FredS
Really, really likes watching kids fish.
Really, really likes watching kids fish.
Posts: 20491
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:00 pm
Location: NOCO (Northern Colorado)

Re: A Serious Problem

Post by FredS » Wed Aug 24, 2016 4:51 pm

UncleBob wrote:More Americans Are Turning Their Backs on Religion, and Here's Why

It isn't any news that Americans are moving away from religion but I found this to be particularly disturbing:
About 20 percent of people who left their childhood faith oppose organized religion generally. "I think that more harm has been done in the name of religion than any other area," one respondent said. "I think religion is not a religion anymore. It's a business... it's all about money," said another.
That right there could really hurt Christianity in the long term, IMO. So what can we do to change that? Any thoughts?
Really? The two 'excuses' or 'reasons' you quoted from the article are as old as time. And, in my experience, they're wrong. They both have just enough truth to them that people nod their heads and say 'yep, that's right man', but in the large scale they're bullsh!t. To the small extent that there is truth to the 'religious harm' and religion as a business problems, well, Jesus Himself addressed both issues.

People who trot out those old lines to justify leaving the church have no %fracking clue what the church is about.
"If we ever get to heaven boys, it aint because we aint done nothin' wrong" - Kris Kristofferson

"One of the things I love about CPS is the frank and enthusiastic dysfunction here. God help me, I do love it so." – OldWorldSwine

"I'd like to put a hook in that puppet and swing it through a bunch of salmon!" - durangopipe

User avatar
UncleBob
CPS Theological Dogmatician
CPS Theological Dogmatician
Posts: 33711
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:00 pm
Location: Lubbock, TX USA
Contact:

Re: A Serious Problem

Post by UncleBob » Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:48 pm

FredS wrote:
UncleBob wrote:More Americans Are Turning Their Backs on Religion, and Here's Why

It isn't any news that Americans are moving away from religion but I found this to be particularly disturbing:
About 20 percent of people who left their childhood faith oppose organized religion generally. "I think that more harm has been done in the name of religion than any other area," one respondent said. "I think religion is not a religion anymore. It's a business... it's all about money," said another.
That right there could really hurt Christianity in the long term, IMO. So what can we do to change that? Any thoughts?
Really? The two 'excuses' or 'reasons' you quoted from the article are as old as time. And, in my experience, they're wrong. They both have just enough truth to them that people nod their heads and say 'yep, that's right man', but in the large scale they're bullsh!t. To the small extent that there is truth to the 'religious harm' and religion as a business problems, well, Jesus Himself addressed both issues.

People who trot out those old lines to justify leaving the church have no %fracking clue what the church is about.
Well, yes. I have heard them before as well but I was thinking within the context of just how many people affiliate with no religion. I have been researching cities where we may move to next year and it is astonishing the percent of the population identify no religion. In the past, most people just understood that it was an excuse to not go to church but now it seems a valid reason to not go.

As an example, take a look at these: True these are college towns but only Lubbock and KC are below 50%. I think the money aspect may now have teeth.
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

User avatar
FredS
Really, really likes watching kids fish.
Really, really likes watching kids fish.
Posts: 20491
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:00 pm
Location: NOCO (Northern Colorado)

Re: A Serious Problem

Post by FredS » Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:07 pm

The thing is that there are hundreds of thousands of healthy Christian churches in the world who are teaching the Word and caring for people. I'd bet that 90% of the people who use those excuses to leave the church were never really part of the church in the first place. At least not part of a healthy church. The two largest (by far) healthcare providers in Kansas City are church outreaches (St Lukes is Episcopal, St Johns is Catholic). Those two organizations have helped more people in the last year than Christianity has hurt in the last 200. The best run service agencies are church charities, not governmental agencies. As for the 'church is a business' deal it's just not true. Except for the wack jobs on TV - who nobody should be following anyway - nobody in the church is getting rich off the backs of the poor. Ask any of our CPS pastors how 'business' is going and you'll hear some pitiful stories of scraping by.

I get it, those excuses have been around for a long time and repeated so often that they're easy for shallow minds to run with. I also realize some - like thunktank - have left the church after years of giving it a real chance. It's one thing to come to a reasoned consideration to leave the church and another to say you've left the church just because your sorority sisters do it. It's easy to laugh at Osteen on Sunday morning TV and say "I don't want any part of what that guy is selling". It's not so easy to take a real, considered, look to see what Jesus is selling.

But hey, the dropouts sound so cool and enlightened when they say "I'm spiritual, but I'm not religious."
"If we ever get to heaven boys, it aint because we aint done nothin' wrong" - Kris Kristofferson

"One of the things I love about CPS is the frank and enthusiastic dysfunction here. God help me, I do love it so." – OldWorldSwine

"I'd like to put a hook in that puppet and swing it through a bunch of salmon!" - durangopipe

User avatar
coco
Uniquely Duggish
Uniquely Duggish
Posts: 27879
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:00 pm
Location: Sweet Home Alabama
Contact:

Re: A Serious Problem

Post by coco » Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:24 pm

UncleBob wrote:...Auburn AL: 59.4% identify as "none".
Yep. Sounds about right. Welcome to the Bible belt.
"Like a gold ring in a pig's snout is a cob with a forever lucite stem." (Pipverbs 1:1)
"No more signatures that quote other CPS members." - Thunk

User avatar
UncleBob
CPS Theological Dogmatician
CPS Theological Dogmatician
Posts: 33711
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:00 pm
Location: Lubbock, TX USA
Contact:

Re: A Serious Problem

Post by UncleBob » Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:41 pm

coco wrote:
UncleBob wrote:...Auburn AL: 59.4% identify as "none".
Yep. Sounds about right. Welcome to the Bible belt.
I was a little surprised that Lubbock scored that high. The churches run most everything here and political speeches sound like sermons.
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

User avatar
Del
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Posts: 36699
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: A Serious Problem

Post by Del » Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:44 pm

People are leaving religion because they do not want to change their lives, or listen to anyone who says that their lives need changing.

I was praying outside of Planned Parenthood today. Sad faced women walk in with dark, brooding men ... this site only does abortions; they no longer provide any sort of healthcare services. They are funded by taxpayers, extorting fees from their patients, death-donations from Warren Buffet, George Soros, and various liberal organizations and individuals.

Across the street is a Pregnancy Care Center. It is funded by donations from Christians in our community. They will help a woman for years, if needed, so that she can be secure and give life to her child.

One would think that the charge of "it's all about money" would keep people from supporting Planned Parenthood, if this thinking followed any sort of reason.

But Christian life requires change and self-sacrifice. People will pay to avoid that.

When we were a Christian culture, we would give money to provide schools, hospitals, charity and healthcare to those in need.

But we have trained a generation to expect that "the government" will provide all of those things "for free," and that "religion is just about money."
===============================

How to fix this?

IT STARTS WITH OUR SCHOOLS.

We must teach children that the truth and reality can be known, that Christian tradition is the best teacher of human wisdom. And if we want to be happy in life, we must do our best to change our lives and embrace the Christian wisdom.

This is what parents teach their children at home.

We have to remember something that we have forgotten: Public schools do not belong to the "government." They belong to the parents in the community.

Perhaps a community should stage a revolt: the "public schools" should be PRIVATIZED -- put them into the hands of a coalition made of the families who live in the school district. In other words -- the same people who are already paying for the schools through their property taxes. Just let the taxes be used to contract with the "private school" for the education of the townsfolks' children.

Go a step further -- If any family objects to the Christian culture of the town folks' school, then exempt them from the school fee and let them seek private education elsewhere.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"I shall not wear a crown of gold where my Master wore a crown of thorns." - Godfrey de Bouillon

User avatar
Del
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Posts: 36699
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: A Serious Problem

Post by Del » Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:45 pm

UncleBob wrote:
coco wrote:
UncleBob wrote:...Auburn AL: 59.4% identify as "none".
Yep. Sounds about right. Welcome to the Bible belt.
I was a little surprised that Lubbock scored that high. The churches run most everything here and political speeches sound like sermons.
I would like to hear some of those political speeches. They probably reflect the common sense of the town's families.

I don't buy the "money" theory. I haven't heard anyone complain about "money" in years. In the '70's, that was a common complaint. But not in recent decades.

On the contrary, I encounter people regularly who don't like the sermons about life issues, voting our Catholic conscience, and various objections to Christian marriage and sexual morality.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"I shall not wear a crown of gold where my Master wore a crown of thorns." - Godfrey de Bouillon

Post Reply