A Serious Problem

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Rusty
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Re: A Serious Problem

Post by Rusty » Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:59 am

Thunktank wrote:
UncleBob wrote:
Onyx wrote:
UncleBob wrote:Why most people leave religion? They just ‘stop believing’
It’s bad news for organized religion: A majority of the religiously unaffiliated — the so-called “nones” — say they fell away from faith not because of any negative experience, but because they “stopped believing,” usually before the age of 30.

Gloomier still for religion is this — nones now make up 25 percent of the American population, making them the single largest “faith group” in the U.S., ahead of Catholics (21 percent) and white evangelicals (16 percent).

And only a fraction — seven percent — say they are looking for a religion to belong to at all.
Also, from my experience, that 7% of "none" but looking for another church are probably just going through a passing phase.
You should visit Lubbock <zederated> Texas!

:chili:
That seven percent may be looking for a "religion" rather than a church. :wink:

Some folks leave church on account of negative experiences in it. I didn't, I liked church, even miss it. I do find certain religions interesting and inspiring at times. For example, I practice some Buddhist inspired meditation. But I don't consider myself "Buddhist" or anything else. But being called a "none" should be politically incorrect. It's just not right. :chili:
I want you all to meet the prototypical "All". Not just a Druid! Not just a Buddhist! ALL. It's like a belief explosion in slow motion.

I wonder if there are actually no "nones" whatsoever. Perhaps they've simply seen a bigger world. So "nones" are just Christian-speak for people that have not yet experiencing a belief-explosion?
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Thunktank
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Re: A Serious Problem

Post by Thunktank » Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:09 am

Rusty wrote:
Thunktank wrote:
UncleBob wrote:
Onyx wrote:
UncleBob wrote:Why most people leave religion? They just ‘stop believing’
It’s bad news for organized religion: A majority of the religiously unaffiliated — the so-called “nones” — say they fell away from faith not because of any negative experience, but because they “stopped believing,” usually before the age of 30.

Gloomier still for religion is this — nones now make up 25 percent of the American population, making them the single largest “faith group” in the U.S., ahead of Catholics (21 percent) and white evangelicals (16 percent).

And only a fraction — seven percent — say they are looking for a religion to belong to at all.
Also, from my experience, that 7% of "none" but looking for another church are probably just going through a passing phase.
You should visit Lubbock <zederated> Texas!

:chili:
That seven percent may be looking for a "religion" rather than a church. :wink:

Some folks leave church on account of negative experiences in it. I didn't, I liked church, even miss it. I do find certain religions interesting and inspiring at times. For example, I practice some Buddhist inspired meditation. But I don't consider myself "Buddhist" or anything else. But being called a "none" should be politically incorrect. It's just not right. :chili:
I want you all to meet the prototypical "All". Not just a Druid! Not just a Buddhist! ALL. It's like a belief explosion in slow motion.

I wonder if there are actually no "nones" whatsoever. Perhaps they've simply seen a bigger world. So "nones" are just Christian-speak for people that have not yet experiencing a belief-explosion?
It makes atheism (non theism) fun! You should try it.
Last edited by Thunktank on Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”

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Re: A Serious Problem

Post by Thunktank » Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:33 am

On a more serious note, there were parts of church I really didn't enjoy at all and found very hard to believe. As most here know, I was raised in a fundamentalist Baptist background, left church as a young adult for a while, returned only to end up Orthodox with a fascination in Trad Catholicism. What this means in the practical order was that I belonged to lots of churches who truly believed enough was revealed to them to be "right" and others tended to be viewed as wrong or at least less right or less full. The idea of being right doesn't offend me, it's how one determines that they're right that does. So much about religion, ethics and style of worship is cultural. It relies on trusting prophets and fathers who really are susceptible to the same kind of limitations I am. Which reminds me that my choice of religions was based upon my own meager understanding and experience.

One's personal experiences and understanding are fine and good. We all have them and we all need them, but we shouldn't get too dogmatic about them no matter how important we like to think they are. When we get dogmatic like that we automatically shut ourselves off from other possible understandings and experiences. There is truth, the problem is in our ability or inability to know it. At best we can only discern a small piece of what is and experience it within our own little existence. So for me, my experience and knowledge is important and good, but there are limits to dogma and absolute facts.

On one hand religion is like a glue that holds certain people together, this important. Today we live in multiple cultures with multiple religions and now there are ways we try and discern truth without religion. My experience is different than it would have been had I been born 500 years ago in Spain or 5000 years ago in North America. To be an "All" as Rusty describes me simply means that I'm attempting in my own small way to adapt to a big and varied world full of different and even contradictory ideas. And being "right" or "wrong" simply isn't the point!
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”

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Re: A Serious Problem

Post by UncleBob » Thu Sep 29, 2016 9:27 am

How decades of divorce helped erode religion
People whose parents divorced when they were children are significantly more likely to grow up not to be religious as adults, the study found. Thirty-five percent of the children of divorced parents told pollsters they are now nonreligious, compared with 23 percent of people whose parents were married when they were children.

Other studies on the rise of the “nones” — those who say they have no religion — have focused on millennials’ changing preferences. This study found that 29 percent of adults who were raised religious and left their faith say they left because of their religion’s negative teachings about gay and lesbian people. Nineteen percent say they left because of clergy sexual-abuse scandals. Sixty percent say they simply do not believe what the religion teaches.
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Re: A Serious Problem

Post by UncleBob » Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:05 am

Watch out for elves! Mudslides, flooding in Iceland
When Siglufjordur, a small mountain town in northern Iceland, was hit by a series of storms last summer, construction workers clearing a roadway soon found themselves dodging mudslides and contending with a flooded river.

A crewmember was injured, then a bulldozer broke down. A TV reporter, who arrived to survey the damage, sank into a mud pit and had to be rescued. Clearing the debris stretched into a 10-day ordeal and became a spectacle.

The culprit, locals knew, had been heavy rainfall. Or elves.

It turns out that construction workers had unwittingly dumped dirt on a rock that is special enough to have its own name in Icelandic folklore: Alfkonusteinn. The rock even has a backstory that involves a human, a fairy and an enchanted elf cloth.

Icelandic elves, also called hidden people or alfar, are not tiny, pointy-eared creatures, wrote Alda Sigmundsdottir in an email. She is a journalist and the author of “The Little Book of the Hidden People: Twenty Stories of Elves From Icelandic Folklore.”
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

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Re: A Serious Problem

Post by wosbald » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:38 am

+JMJ+

Reaching young 'nones' will take an authentic evangelizing voice
Image
(Dreamstime/Rawpixelimages)

Last week, my colleague Heidi Schlumpf =ttps://www.ncronline.org/node/162926]reported on a conference at the University of Notre Dame, aimed at creating "cultures of formation" that will help stem the exodus of young Catholics into the ranks of the "nones." I was especially interested in the keynote address by Bishop Robert Barron, auxiliary bishop of Los Angeles.

[…]

He rightly takes issue with scientism, which, in itself, is witness to the failure of philosophy in the last half of the 20th century, and has been a concern of mine at this blog since its inception. The high-water mark of criticism in regard to science remains my mentor Leon Wieseltier's essay "Crimes Against Humanities," which rebutted Steven Pinker, whose latest book is now a rage, even if its pretensions to completeness have long since been known and exposed. That is a subject for another day.

Or is it? Because if Pinker and his ilk seek to bring science beyond what science's own terms of reference warrant, Barron's presentation displays a similar confusion between apologetics and evangelization. Barron provides a fine set of intellectual arguments for the faith, but is that the problem? And not just arguments, but each time Barron introduced an item from the sociological research undertaken by Smith and his team, he assumes that these young, former Catholics are a problem to be solved.

He makes jokes about their incoherent yearnings but at least those yearnings, however unsophisticated, are authentic. Why poke fun? Is that inviting? Is someone who is alienated from religion likely to warm to the prospect of giving the church a second look when the person "evangelizing" them mocks their questions?

And, what is more, Barron's talk suffers from a lack of self-awareness that is astonishing in itself, and equally astonishing that it is still so common. For all of his erudition, and mindful of my agreement with his core commitment that education in the Catholic faith needs a much more robust intellectual component, how can any bishop talk about the rise of the nones and not stipulate that the failure of the bishops during the clergy sex abuse crisis is probably the single greatest source of disaffiliation from the church in our history?

Young people will never get to the arguments Barron makes so eloquently if they think the church's leaders are morally fraudulent. While someday a bishop may be able to address the rise of the nones without apologizing, again, for the bishops' collective failure to protect the children entrusted to them and their violations of the sacramental understanding of the church that is the hallmark of Catholicism, we are not at that day yet.

[…]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuQq3nn15ZE
"In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph." - Our Lady of Fatima

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