Typical services at my church

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Cleon
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Re: Typical services at my church

Post by Cleon » Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:25 am

wosbald wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:59 am
+JMJ+
hugodrax wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:38 am
Why are your rituals sacred and mine profane?
If our rituals weren't profane, what would be Protestantism's raison d'être?
Sheesh, they're not all profane.
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Re: Typical services at my church

Post by tuttle » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:38 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:03 pm
Believe it or not, and I am DEFINITELY NOT STARTING TROUBLE, the part I have the most difficulty understanding is the lack of emphasis on communion/Communion. It seems to me that whether you believe the host to be Body and Blood or representations thereof, that the focus on Jesus' life, freely suffered brutal death, and miraculous resurrection demand a constant reenactment because it puts His Passion first and foremost in your mind.
For what it's worth, this protestant is with you. Every service with the supper will always be a service where the gospel is preached. I broached this topic in a series in a blog I sometimes write. The lack of emphasis on communion is, to me, maybe the biggest failure of evangelical worship and I would even go as far as to think that a lack of understanding/practice/etc has lead to sick and dying churches.

You can read what I wrote about it here: Renew the Table (and this one that I haven't added to the list yet). I only offer it up because it might go some way to show how the lack of emphasis/understanding/practice developed, at least within the tradition I've found myself involved in. It's written with them in mind with the goal of a renewal within that tradition, but it might be helpful in some way in clarifying some things.
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Re: Typical services at my church

Post by tuttle » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:39 pm

Onyx wrote:
Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:39 pm
That's where I learned to love music.
Thanks for sharing that.
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Re: Typical services at my church

Post by wosbald » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:42 pm

+JMJ+
Cleon wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:25 am
wosbald wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:59 am
hugodrax wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:38 am
Why are your rituals sacred and mine profane?
If our rituals weren't profane, what would be Protestantism's raison d'être?
Sheesh, they're not all profane.
:wink:




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Re: Typical services at my church

Post by JudgeRusty » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:21 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:24 am
I've really found the similarities and differences in styles interesting.
Can I still ask questions? Seems like many of you describe very similar worship services, at least in format. Would you mind a roll call by denomination? That is to say, I'm curious about what you call yourselves and it seems Protestant might actually be overbroad.
How do mainline Protestants, that is, Methodists, Episcopals, Presbyterians, etc differ from evangelical services. I guess I'm most curious what marks out the evangelical.
So, this is where we enter the confessional?

I have attended Baptist (SBC) churches since before I could walk.

The pattern of the worship service has changed very little, although the types of music have changed from time to time. Generally, it has been 1 hour from start to finish, Let it be said here, that the worship service generally follows what I refer to as Sunday School, which was strictly a Biblical educational program when I was a child, and tends more to discipleship some now. I have generally enjoyed this hour about as much as the primary service.

As to the "regular" worship service pattern: Three to four songs. A welcome and announcements mixed somewhere therein. A choir special or solo or two among the song service. One of the songs is designated as an Offertory song, but is not always necessarily stewardship thematic, followed by a prayer and the passing of the plate. The sermon is delivered after the song service concludes and is of the pastor's choice as to topic. The topic can stand alone or be part of a series. My experience has been that the Old and New Testaments receive about equal attention, but there is always an effort to point toward Christ. Most every service ends with an "invitation" and "invitation song" in which folks are invited to profess a belief in Christ as Savior and Lord. Afterwards there is usually a Benediction.

Before I get pigeon-holed, as the national SBC has crawled farther out on the farthest right limbs, I have kept myself more at arm's length personally.
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Re: Typical services at my church

Post by hugodrax » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:45 pm

JudgeRusty wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:21 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:24 am
I've really found the similarities and differences in styles interesting.
Can I still ask questions? Seems like many of you describe very similar worship services, at least in format. Would you mind a roll call by denomination? That is to say, I'm curious about what you call yourselves and it seems Protestant might actually be overbroad.
How do mainline Protestants, that is, Methodists, Episcopals, Presbyterians, etc differ from evangelical services. I guess I'm most curious what marks out the evangelical.
So, this is where we enter the confessional?

I have attended Baptist (SBC) churches since before I could walk.

The pattern of the worship service has changed very little, although the types of music have changed from time to time. Generally, it has been 1 hour from start to finish, Let it be said here, that the worship service generally follows what I refer to as Sunday School, which was strictly a Biblical educational program when I was a child, and tends more to discipleship some now. I have generally enjoyed this hour about as much as the primary service.

As to the "regular" worship service pattern: Three to four songs. A welcome and announcements mixed somewhere therein. A choir special or solo or two among the song service. One of the songs is designated as an Offertory song, but is not always necessarily stewardship thematic, followed by a prayer and the passing of the plate. The sermon is delivered after the song service concludes and is of the pastor's choice as to topic. The topic can stand alone or be part of a series. My experience has been that the Old and New Testaments receive about equal attention, but there is always an effort to point toward Christ. Most every service ends with an "invitation" and "invitation song" in which folks are invited to profess a belief in Christ as Savior and Lord. Afterwards there is usually a Benediction.

Before I get pigeon-holed, as the national SBC has crawled farther out on the farthest right limbs, I have kept myself more at arm's length personally.
I'm sorry if that felt too personal, Judge. In fact, I'll apologize to everyone and retract the question, if necessary.

Let me explain why I asked. I was raised in an environment of not much social mixing. Rural Western Pennsylvania was just like that. Believe it or not, I was friends with everybody at school (I was a likeable kid...all latent arsehole tendencies came later in life), but the families didn't socialize much except at community functions. Everybody was there when you needed them, though. My family owned the tavern, which was about as unifying as it came.

Thus, I always had an idea of Protestants that included unifying belief--all Protestants believed X. Looking at this thread, that's clearly not true. So I'm asking, not to pry, but to see if the reasons everybody's services seem similar is because, by some fluke, everybody who has answered is from the same denomination or if there are unifying factors, if being a Protestant actually does have an umbra of unifying belief that will be present everywhere regardless of actual denomination.

Nobody is on the hot seat and I'm very sorry if it feels that way. Please feel free not to answer, folks.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: Typical services at my church

Post by FredS » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:54 pm

Don't be a dillweed Hugh. We're friends here and nothing you've written seems at all out of line. There's been nothing that one curious friend couldn't ask another over the back fence or while relaxing on a park bench at lunchtime. In fact, it seems the very reason Skip started this thread was to describe and discuss the commonalities or differences in our corporate worship.

As long as we don't label each other pagans for *worshiping Mary or heretics for not, then we oughta be fine.

EDIT: Yes, I know 'worship' is not the correct word. Perhaps venerate is more apropos?
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Re: Typical services at my church

Post by hugodrax » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:13 pm

I come from a long line of dillweeds, sir.

It's mostly the fact that we aren't quite friends talking in the backyard, coupled with the fact that this place has been refighting the Thirty Years war for years and a lot of people would like to defenestrate Del, and I walk on the careful side. :mrgreen:
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Re: Typical services at my church

Post by JudgeRusty » Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:50 pm

Participation was not mandatory; my testimony was not coerced nor under duress.
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Re: Typical services at my church

Post by mont974x4 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:55 pm

JudgeRusty wrote:Participation was not mandatory; my testimony was not coerced nor under duress.
In other words, Hugo threatened to fill your tobacco cellar with the cheapest, goopiest cherry blends he could find.
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Re: Typical services at my church

Post by hugodrax » Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:02 pm

There is only one cherry blend: Middletons.
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Re: Typical services at my church

Post by gaining_age » Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:03 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:13 pm
I come from a long line of dillweeds, sir.
Now that's a moniker if I ever saw one.
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Re: Typical services at my church

Post by Joshoowah » Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:18 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:24 am
infidel wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:51 am
gaining_age wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:46 am
infidel wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:41 am
hugodrax wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:38 am
Well, I've been treading lightly and will continue to do so, but am curious why I must respect what the Protestant does, and govern myself accordingly, where there doesn't seem to be the least issue with a Protestant calling me a pagan. Why are your rituals sacred and mine profane? On a fundamental level, Infidel, do you consider me a Christian? Am I reading too much into your last post?
You are reading too much into my post. I am drawing broad generalizations from my observations. Of course you are Christian. I do not consider myself a Protestant but those are the people I am surrounded by. I would never call you pagan, but I have heard other Protestants who do. That is all.
I found it an over the top post as well which is why I threw in a comment about snake handling.

You can always find some group unhappy with your worship style. Contra-wise, there could be something going on if you are handling snakes-- even as it is Biblical, it is not practical no prescribed as part of worship.
Fair enough. I admit to painting with very broad brushes.
No worries. I've used a paint roller a time or two and have misread a situation on more than one occasion. I was certainly not asking for anything but clarification. If you believed I wasnt, it wouldn't have brought on a bad reaction. Zero interest in creating warfare here. Thanks for answering.

There will always be zealotry. Like the poor, the zealots will always be with us.

I've really found the similarities and differences in styles interesting.

Can I still ask questions? Seems like many of you describe very similar worship services, at least in format. Would you mind a roll call by denomination? That is to say, I'm curious about what you call yourselves and it seems Protestant might actually be overbroad.

How do mainline Protestants, that is, Methodists, Episcopals, Presbyterians, etc differ from evangelical services. I guess I'm most curious what marks out the evangelical.
For the record, Methodists, as well as the Episcopals and Presbyterians to an extent, would consider themselves evangelical; however, this does not mean that every service within these denominations will be even close to the same. The unique thing about Protestantism is that it is a smorgasbord of different liturgy, theology, and sometimes even belief. They are unified on certain beliefs, particularly those which are considered cardinal, but they are still nuanced.

In any case, I am not sure what I am anymore. I'm a Weslyan; however, I no longer attend Methodist churches, rather a find myself becoming more and more attributable to the Anglican church, which is quite different from most other Protestant denominations.
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Re: Typical services at my church

Post by Thunktank » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:26 pm

Joshoowah wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:18 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:24 am
infidel wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:51 am
gaining_age wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:46 am
infidel wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:41 am
hugodrax wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:38 am
Well, I've been treading lightly and will continue to do so, but am curious why I must respect what the Protestant does, and govern myself accordingly, where there doesn't seem to be the least issue with a Protestant calling me a pagan. Why are your rituals sacred and mine profane? On a fundamental level, Infidel, do you consider me a Christian? Am I reading too much into your last post?
You are reading too much into my post. I am drawing broad generalizations from my observations. Of course you are Christian. I do not consider myself a Protestant but those are the people I am surrounded by. I would never call you pagan, but I have heard other Protestants who do. That is all.
I found it an over the top post as well which is why I threw in a comment about snake handling.

You can always find some group unhappy with your worship style. Contra-wise, there could be something going on if you are handling snakes-- even as it is Biblical, it is not practical no prescribed as part of worship.
Fair enough. I admit to painting with very broad brushes.
No worries. I've used a paint roller a time or two and have misread a situation on more than one occasion. I was certainly not asking for anything but clarification. If you believed I wasnt, it wouldn't have brought on a bad reaction. Zero interest in creating warfare here. Thanks for answering.

There will always be zealotry. Like the poor, the zealots will always be with us.

I've really found the similarities and differences in styles interesting.

Can I still ask questions? Seems like many of you describe very similar worship services, at least in format. Would you mind a roll call by denomination? That is to say, I'm curious about what you call yourselves and it seems Protestant might actually be overbroad.

How do mainline Protestants, that is, Methodists, Episcopals, Presbyterians, etc differ from evangelical services. I guess I'm most curious what marks out the evangelical.
For the record, Methodists, as well as the Episcopals and Presbyterians to an extent, would consider themselves evangelical; however, this does not mean that every service within these denominations will be even close to the same. The unique thing about Protestantism is that it is a smorgasbord of different liturgy, theology, and sometimes even belief. They are unified on certain beliefs, particularly those which are considered cardinal, but they are still nuanced.

In any case, I am not sure what I am anymore. I'm a Weslyan; however, I no longer attend Methodist churches, rather a find myself becoming more and more attributable to the Anglican church, which is quite different from most other Protestant denominations.
Maybe you ought to join the The Jesus Movement.

The Anglican/Episcopal churches have played a role in my life. I also witnessed the inner politics of the Episcopal church and the struggle of continuing Anglican offshoots with more conservative leanings. I have no dog in that, just saying. The Anglican Church is kinda cool in many ways because it's a unique confederation of different Christian persuasions with an English accent.
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Re: Typical services at my church

Post by Onyx » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:45 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:45 pm
...
Thus, I always had an idea of Protestants that included unifying belief--all Protestants believed X. Looking at this thread, that's clearly not true. So I'm asking, not to pry, but to see if the reasons everybody's services seem similar is because, by some fluke, everybody who has answered is from the same denomination or if there are unifying factors, if being a Protestant actually does have an umbra of unifying belief that will be present everywhere regardless of actual denomination.

Nobody is on the hot seat and I'm very sorry if it feels that way. Please feel free not to answer, folks.
I've been to a fair few Protestant churches so I have an unwelcome contribution to this discussion borne of dubious experience. The services are similar in most protestant churches because, once you arrive at the idea that there will be certain essentials - prayer, Bible reading, preaching, songs... then it stands to reason that they're be formatted with opening an closing prayers, main prayers in the middle somewhere... the songs will be early, build toward the preaching... that basic arrangement looks similar most places because they're all responding the same requirements - i.e. get those essentials done before the ladies serve tea and coffee. (About the only thing I never saw was men serving the coffee and cake. Though I'm sure it happens some places.)

But the real differences are in the substance of the preaching. There's massive variation there. Some places I'm headed for hell. Some places there is no hell. Some were hell.
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Typical services at my church

Post by mont974x4 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:25 am

gaining_age wrote:
hugodrax wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:13 pm
I come from a long line of dillweeds, sir.
Now that's a moniker if I ever saw one.
Theinsolent called. Hugo is just learning the true path of the dillweed.


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Last edited by mont974x4 on Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Typical services at my church

Post by hugodrax » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:27 am

mont974x4 wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:25 am
gaining_age wrote:
hugodrax wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:13 pm
I come from a long line of dillweeds, sir.
Now that's a moniker if I ever saw one.
TheInsilent called. Hugo is just learning the true path of the dillweed.


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Well, this is the first time I've ever seen you have trouble with your insolence.
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Re: Typical services at my church

Post by mont974x4 » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:29 am

hugodrax wrote:
mont974x4 wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:25 am
gaining_age wrote:
hugodrax wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:13 pm
I come from a long line of dillweeds, sir.
Now that's a moniker if I ever saw one.
TheInsilent called. Hugo is just learning the true path of the dillweed.


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Well, this is the first time I've ever seen you have trouble with your insolence.
Damn autocorrect.


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Re: Typical services at my church

Post by Del » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:37 am

JudgeRusty wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:21 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:24 am
I've really found the similarities and differences in styles interesting.
Can I still ask questions? Seems like many of you describe very similar worship services, at least in format. Would you mind a roll call by denomination? That is to say, I'm curious about what you call yourselves and it seems Protestant might actually be overbroad.
How do mainline Protestants, that is, Methodists, Episcopals, Presbyterians, etc differ from evangelical services. I guess I'm most curious what marks out the evangelical.
So, this is where we enter the confessional?

I have attended Baptist (SBC) churches since before I could walk.

The pattern of the worship service has changed very little, although the types of music have changed from time to time. Generally, it has been 1 hour from start to finish, Let it be said here, that the worship service generally follows what I refer to as Sunday School, which was strictly a Biblical educational program when I was a child, and tends more to discipleship some now. I have generally enjoyed this hour about as much as the primary service.

As to the "regular" worship service pattern: Three to four songs. A welcome and announcements mixed somewhere therein. A choir special or solo or two among the song service. One of the songs is designated as an Offertory song, but is not always necessarily stewardship thematic, followed by a prayer and the passing of the plate. The sermon is delivered after the song service concludes and is of the pastor's choice as to topic. The topic can stand alone or be part of a series. My experience has been that the Old and New Testaments receive about equal attention, but there is always an effort to point toward Christ. Most every service ends with an "invitation" and "invitation song" in which folks are invited to profess a belief in Christ as Savior and Lord. Afterwards there is usually a Benediction.

Before I get pigeon-holed, as the national SBC has crawled farther out on the farthest right limbs, I have kept myself more at arm's length personally.
I think brings us to the point of things.

-- Apostolic Christians approach the altar to receive Christ in the Eucharist.
-- Evangelicals come closest to this Tradition when they respond to the invitation of an altar call.

I am genuinely uncertain as to what Evangelicals believe about their own communion services. I gather that it is a memorial of Christ's passion and death.
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Re: Typical services at my church

Post by Skip » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:44 am

Onyx wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:45 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:45 pm
...
Thus, I always had an idea of Protestants that included unifying belief--all Protestants believed X. Looking at this thread, that's clearly not true. So I'm asking, not to pry, but to see if the reasons everybody's services seem similar is because, by some fluke, everybody who has answered is from the same denomination or if there are unifying factors, if being a Protestant actually does have an umbra of unifying belief that will be present everywhere regardless of actual denomination.

Nobody is on the hot seat and I'm very sorry if it feels that way. Please feel free not to answer, folks.
I've been to a fair few Protestant churches so I have an unwelcome contribution to this discussion borne of dubious experience. The services are similar in most protestant churches because, once you arrive at the idea that there will be certain essentials - prayer, Bible reading, preaching, songs... then it stands to reason that they're be formatted with opening an closing prayers, main prayers in the middle somewhere... the songs will be early, build toward the preaching... that basic arrangement looks similar most places because they're all responding the same requirements - i.e. get those essentials done before the ladies serve tea and coffee. (About the only thing I never saw was men serving the coffee and cake. Though I'm sure it happens some places.)

But the real differences are in the substance of the preaching. There's massive variation there. Some places I'm headed for hell. Some places there is no hell. Some were hell.
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