Ritual (or "My New Thread")

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Ritual (or "My New Thread")

Post by Preacher Pipes » Tue May 30, 2017 11:49 am

As a minister and as someone who leans more in favor of "traditional" styles of worship over contemporary, and as a pipe-smoker, I find myself really attracted to and finding deep meaning in rituals. However, I can't really nail down why.... What is so comforting about it? Why is ritual so important to us as humans? Why does it seem like such an integral part of connecting with God since time immemorial?
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Re: Ritual (or "My New Thread")

Post by FredS » Tue May 30, 2017 12:13 pm

I think rituals are - if nothing else - genuine. Actions or habits of individuals or groups don't become ritualized unless they are effective and, dare I say, enjoyable. Wearing a neck tie to church services may have been popular for a time in the last century but I don't think it effectively added anything to worship so it hasn't really stuck. A 30 minute workout every morning would be effective at reducing my weight but it's not enjoyable so it's never stuck. A ritual like singing during worship though, has proven effective for worship and it's enjoyable. The particular tunes may (or may not) change over time, but I know my great-great-grandparents surely enjoyed singing in church as much as I do. Corporately reciting the creed is an effective reminder of what the church has always taught. Crossing oneself is an effective reminder of Christs work on the cross. Genuflecting is an effective reminder that God is greater than we are. A daily devotion has been an effective way to learn and meditate on God's word since the days of the desert fathers. The simple fact that all of these things have endured points to them being genuine acts that connect us to all the saints.

On that I think we can all agree.

Let's just not start a discussion on sacraments.
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Re: Ritual (or "My New Thread")

Post by Cleon » Tue May 30, 2017 1:10 pm

I love ritual. Love it. I'm just wired that way. Repetition breeds familiarity. Familiarity breeds ownership. Own the ritual.

This is true -When someone asks me what I believe I respond with, " I believe in God the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ, His only son our Lord...

I wouldn't have that response if we did not confess that every week.
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Re: Ritual (or "My New Thread")

Post by Jester » Tue May 30, 2017 1:26 pm

Introduction
Sing four songs
Sermon
Song
Exit
I smoke a cigar because the body is a temple and the temple needs incense. -Michael Knowles

Pumpkin Ale is more American than apple pie! -Tuttle

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Re: Ritual (or "My New Thread")

Post by Cleon » Tue May 30, 2017 1:30 pm

Jester wrote:
Tue May 30, 2017 1:26 pm
Introduction
Sing four songs
Sermon
Song
Exit
Uh, where's the sacraments? :whistling:
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Re: Ritual (or "My New Thread")

Post by Jocose » Tue May 30, 2017 2:19 pm

God gave us 5 senses and we use all of them to worship him. Ritual is something ingrained deep in our souls.

Go experience an Orthodox liturgy and see how beautiful it is.

"Come and see"
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Re: Ritual (or "My New Thread")

Post by Fainn » Tue May 30, 2017 10:54 pm

I was raised as a Southern Baptist and now attend Messianic services when I'm not too pissed off at G-d to actually go. Long story with that. Anyhow, I think we find comfort in ritual because it connects us with our past. The Baptist faith has been around for a few hundred years and there is rarely any variation in the order of service. I was raised in the mountains of North Carolina. I could go to any Baptist church and expect 2 opening songs, the offertory hymn, a couple of choir songs, preaching for 30 minutes, and closing with an altar call. When I moved to MS, the services were pretty much the same because they had hundreds of years to practice the rituals of their service. Now that go to Messianic services, I notice that there is a lot of variate accross synagogues of even the same denomination.

Ex. My old congregations sang the traditional Himinei Tov (Dwell in unity) as the Torah was processed. The synagogue I attended last week used a modern Messianic song as for the Torah processional. I was let down, to tell you the truth. I felt like so much was missed by not using the song that had been used since at least the birth of Christ. At my old synagogue, we followed the traditional Torah readings. At the two down in Alabama, they only read the first part of the Torah readings. At my old synagogue, four men processed the Torah in the spirit of tradition. At the down here, only one man processed the Torah. I really want to start a synagogue that will keep the old traditions and landmarks. However, I just don't know if its G-d's will.
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Re: Ritual (or "My New Thread")

Post by Jocose » Tue May 30, 2017 11:17 pm

Heavy edit.
"And for Freds sake, DO NOT point anyone towards CPS or you'll put them off of both Christianity and pipe smoking forever." ~ FredS

"The Guacamole yoda was life changing " ~ John-Boy

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Re: Ritual (or "My New Thread")

Post by hugodrax » Wed May 31, 2017 6:54 am

Jocose wrote:
Tue May 30, 2017 11:17 pm
Heavy edit.
I'm so proud of you.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: Ritual (or "My New Thread")

Post by Del » Wed May 31, 2017 8:28 am

Preacher Pipes wrote:
Tue May 30, 2017 11:49 am
As a minister and as someone who leans more in favor of "traditional" styles of worship over contemporary, and as a pipe-smoker, I find myself really attracted to and finding deep meaning in rituals. However, I can't really nail down why.... What is so comforting about it? Why is ritual so important to us as humans? Why does it seem like such an integral part of connecting with God since time immemorial?
God established ritual worship for us because we need it.

He made us; He should know.


As to why this is so.... He left it to us to ponder the depth of this. Why do we rest in ritual worship?

I love that we are worshipping in the same way as the Apostles and Saints did. Worship is timeless... the angels and saints worship with us, as a "great cloud of witnesses."

We have the Bible (the collection of sacred writings, as we know them) because these books were chosen as suitable for hearing during ritual worship.
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Re: Ritual (or "My New Thread")

Post by Jester » Wed May 31, 2017 8:57 am

A ritual should be a strong framework that we are then able to construct a beautiful presence of the gospel. The framework itself doesn't present the gospel but provides a safe boundary to stay in so that we may not overhang the foundation which is Christ. I find this helpful in the community group I lead. My wife and I used to attend one where there was no structure and no plan. Forty minutes into being there the leader would gain control and we would have a 10 minute bible talk on his experience through the week. Family after family fell away wondering why they wasted 2 hours every other Monday night. Me and my wife then found ourselves in a position to lead but I saw the danger of what we knew. We built a framework on Christ. This is our mission statement, this is our purpose. Statements and purposes don't drive conversations. We serve dinner to a chatty bunch, dinner starts at 6. We teach to a chatty bunch, study starts at 6:30. We try and say goodbye to a chatty bunch, we say our prayers and goodbyes at 7:45 and we are out the door by 8. The fact is that nothing would get done without a time structure and a time structure wouldn't segue without a meaningful ritual. What I mean here is we never have the same church service and we never have the same community group conversations but they are all done under the same structure. Not for legalistic purposes but purely for the purpose of being able to get them done.

When a ritual no longer becomes a framework but an absolute way of doing things, then the ritual itself could become the object of desire. The ritual is so complete they have the same service and the same discussion every week with no deviation. On the other hand there are plenty of deviating denominations who loathe church structure and no longer build on this foundation but have found new methods and sandy shores.
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Re: Ritual (or "My New Thread")

Post by infidel » Wed May 31, 2017 9:36 am

Rituals are the things we do to quell the anxiety we'd feel if we didn't do them.
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Re: Ritual (or "My New Thread")

Post by wosbald » Wed May 31, 2017 9:54 am

+JMJ+
infidel wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 9:36 am
Rituals are the things we do to quell the anxiety we'd feel if we didn't do them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7xpl444FC4




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Re: Ritual (or "My New Thread")

Post by Jocose » Wed May 31, 2017 11:09 am

hugodrax wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 6:54 am
Jocose wrote:
Tue May 30, 2017 11:17 pm
Heavy edit.
I'm so proud of you.
Hush, you, my schismatic friend.
"And for Freds sake, DO NOT point anyone towards CPS or you'll put them off of both Christianity and pipe smoking forever." ~ FredS

"The Guacamole yoda was life changing " ~ John-Boy

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Re: Ritual (or "My New Thread")

Post by hugodrax » Wed May 31, 2017 11:36 am

Jocose wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 11:09 am
hugodrax wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 6:54 am
Jocose wrote:
Tue May 30, 2017 11:17 pm
Heavy edit.
I'm so proud of you.
Hush, you, my schismatic friend.
We lose before we start, beardie. Very few see the light, no matter how much our churches show that it's lit for all. Let the heretics quibble while we go get a cup of incense infused coffee.
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: Ritual (or "My New Thread")

Post by Jocose » Wed May 31, 2017 11:40 am

hugodrax wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 11:36 am
Jocose wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 11:09 am
hugodrax wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 6:54 am
Jocose wrote:
Tue May 30, 2017 11:17 pm
Heavy edit.
I'm so proud of you.
Hush, you, my schismatic friend.
We lose before we start, beardie. Very few see the light, no matter how much our churches show that it's lit for all. Let the heretics quibble while we go get a cup of incense infused coffee.
Yikes! I really don't like the h word. Is it just me or does the RC use this a lot?
"And for Freds sake, DO NOT point anyone towards CPS or you'll put them off of both Christianity and pipe smoking forever." ~ FredS

"The Guacamole yoda was life changing " ~ John-Boy

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Re: Ritual (or "My New Thread")

Post by hugodrax » Wed May 31, 2017 11:49 am

Jocose wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 11:40 am
hugodrax wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 11:36 am
Jocose wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 11:09 am
hugodrax wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 6:54 am
Jocose wrote:
Tue May 30, 2017 11:17 pm
Heavy edit.
I'm so proud of you.
Hush, you, my schismatic friend.
We lose before we start, beardie. Very few see the light, no matter how much our churches show that it's lit for all. Let the heretics quibble while we go get a cup of incense infused coffee.
Yikes! I really don't like the h word. Is it just me or does the RC use this a lot?
You are supremely weird. Can you tell a joke when it comes? You're becoming as humorless as an Orthodox priest!
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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Re: Ritual (or "My New Thread")

Post by Sir Moose » Wed May 31, 2017 11:58 am

hugodrax wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 11:49 am
Jocose wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 11:40 am
hugodrax wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 11:36 am
Jocose wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 11:09 am
hugodrax wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 6:54 am
Jocose wrote:
Tue May 30, 2017 11:17 pm
Heavy edit.
I'm so proud of you.
Hush, you, my schismatic friend.
We lose before we start, beardie. Very few see the light, no matter how much our churches show that it's lit for all. Let the heretics quibble while we go get a cup of incense infused coffee.
Yikes! I really don't like the h word. Is it just me or does the RC use this a lot?
You are supremely weird. Can you tell a joke when it comes? You're becoming as humorless as an Orthodox priest!
Off Topic
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Vlad: Old Calendar or New Calendar?
Alex: Old.
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Alex: Yes.
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Alex: No.
Vlad: Clean-shaven or bearded priest?
Alex: Bearded.
Vlad: Does he wear his cassock and cross on the street?
Alex: Da.
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Alex: Uh, yes.
Vlad: Aha! Heretic!
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Re: Ritual (or "My New Thread")

Post by Jocose » Wed May 31, 2017 12:15 pm

Sir Moose wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 11:58 am
hugodrax wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 11:49 am
Jocose wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 11:40 am
hugodrax wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 11:36 am
Jocose wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 11:09 am
hugodrax wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 6:54 am
Jocose wrote:
Tue May 30, 2017 11:17 pm
Heavy edit.
I'm so proud of you.
Hush, you, my schismatic friend.
We lose before we start, beardie. Very few see the light, no matter how much our churches show that it's lit for all. Let the heretics quibble while we go get a cup of incense infused coffee.
Yikes! I really don't like the h word. Is it just me or does the RC use this a lot?
You are supremely weird. Can you tell a joke when it comes? You're becoming as humorless as an Orthodox priest!
Off Topic
Two people meet on a train. After some introductory chat, they discover both are Orthodox and of Russian descent.
Vlad: Old Calendar or New Calendar?
Alex: Old.
Vlad: Very good. Do you have a three-hour Vigil in church every Saturday night and before every holy day, even if the holy day is on a Monday?
Alex: Yes.
Vlad: Excellent. Pews or no pews?
Alex: No.
Vlad: Clean-shaven or bearded priest?
Alex: Bearded.
Vlad: Does he wear his cassock and cross on the street?
Alex: Da.
Vlad: Is your jurisdiction ecumenist or non-ecumenist?
Alex: Non.
Vlad: Do you have an old-man Trinity icon?
Alex: Uh, yes.
Vlad: Aha! Heretic!
groan

(on both accounts)
:lol:
"And for Freds sake, DO NOT point anyone towards CPS or you'll put them off of both Christianity and pipe smoking forever." ~ FredS

"The Guacamole yoda was life changing " ~ John-Boy

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Re: Ritual (or "My New Thread")

Post by durangopipe » Wed May 31, 2017 4:12 pm

My sense of ritual and its very significant worth is twofold.

First, I believe that awareness and respect for traditional worship powerfully connect us with the history of the church and our own place in that history. By traditional worship I mean liturgy, the liturgical calendar, sacred art, music and architecture, vestments, etc.

Second, I believe that faith is not a matter entirely of reason. Although faith is most decidedly not irrational (and although those attracted by temperament to apologetics sometimes appear to make it seem that faith is achieved through reason, I don't believe most apologists would want to be construed this way), faith, in the end is non-rational.

Faith is belief in things unseen.

Ritual and traditional practice including the elements listed above allow us to rejoice, reflect and be reminded of the essential mystery of faith, the "now we see through a glass darkly" element of belief. In other words, worship.

I find worship lacking a strong connection with tradition, liturgy, sacred archircture, art, music, vestments, etc. lacking in essential connection with a fundamental element of faith: wonder.

Others are not so constructed, temperamentally.
Less traditional, more modern worship practices allow many to engage with the mystery and wonder of faith.
I'm not one of them.

Still, all of like precious faith.
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