I am neither pro-moose nor anti-moose.Jester wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:52 pmGood grief. And someone nominated me for the "define yourself so I can disagree with you better" Morley.wosbald wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:29 pm+JMJ+
Has anybody here taken that position?
Even Moose has clarified himself in that, biblically, there's neither a positive obligation to carry nor a positive restriction against banning.
That seems to be the default position on this thread, inasmuch as it's the one thing upon which everyone currently positing agrees.
Altered to remove "biblically" from same questions, posed to the "opposite of Moose crowd".
Is it ok for a police officer to arrive at a church and shoot an active shooter?
Why is it permitted for an officer and not for anyone else?
Are we obligated to let shooters follow through?
IMHO you can say nobody is taking that position but I just read this whole thread and you guys fooled me. It's a pretty simple line of questioning and I would avoid it as well if I were arguing the other side.
I am opposed to most questions on any topic that begin with "Is it biblically permissable to...." That's Bible-abuse. That isn't what the Bible is for.
Let's look at the current environment of random shootings, mass murders, and hate-crimes against Christians and churches -- and then consider an appropriate and moral Christian response.
Last April, we had a deranged Trump-hater who stole a cache of guns and set off a massive man-hunt. Part of the story -- he had also visited a Lutheran church in Madison and set them on edge. So they cancelled Palm Sunday services, for the safety of everyone involved.
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=33361&p=1134118&hi ... n#p1134118
If attacks are so likely, maybe we should stop meeting in public buildings that advertise the time of the meeting on a sign!
I won't spend much space to answer your questions, because I already wrote a long post above.
My discernment is that that a peace officer has a duty to put himself in harm's way for the safety of innocent persons. He is trained and armed to use deadly force, if necessary, and he authorized by the lawful civil authority. This is why the cop is different from the civilian.
The Christian believer in the pew has not been given the duty to carry a weapon, nor does he have authorization from lawful authority. At best, he has permission from the civil authorities. In the church, he still has a duty to submit to any disciplines laid down by the pastor, bishop, or elders... according to the tradition of that community.
And if we are confronted by an aggressor, an innocent Christian is permitted to defend himself. He is not morally required to do so, and many holy martyrs steadfastly refused to answer with violence.
There are good answers to the question of CCW in churches.... but we have to look at something larger and more alive than the Bible to find them.