The original Adam and Eve were a husband and wife.tuttle wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:28 amI do have fun yanking your chain, but I'm not necessarily yanking right now.Del wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:28 amThe Church has said many things about Herself through the centuries. Her own Scripture proclaims that She is the Bride of Christ, our Redeemer.tuttle wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:26 amDel wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:03 pmDangit. You made me have to go and read one of wosbald's lengthy links about which he has no comment.
Correct. Jesus is the only Redeemer. Jesus is the New Adam and the Church, as His Bride, is the New Eve. And insofar as Mary is part of the Church, she is certainly part of the New Eve. She's not alone. She is part of a Great (and growing) Cloud of Witnesses.Del wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:03 pmArticle says that Francis's comments were "off the cuff." Which means that he has an opinion, and the Fifth Marian Doctrine remain undefined as a dogma.
As for the purposes of CPS -- this is a vote for Mary Alone. If Mary is not "Co-Redemptrix" ("co-" is simply the Latin prefix meaning "with"), then the Redeemer has no companion Redemptrix. The New Adam doesn't have a New Eve. And Mary is left alone again.
I am not aware of any teaching when the Church has called Herself "The New Eve."
I know you are just having fun and yanking my chain. That's fine with me....
Eve disobeyed God, and persuaded Adam to disobey. Adam and Eve stood by the tree in their sin. They lost God's friendship, and we are born into a fallen nature that is apart from God.
Mary gave her full obedience to God's will, allowing Christ to enter the world. And He fulfilled the will of the Father by perfect obedience with His Mother at His side. Mary stood by the Tree as Christ hung upon it, together in obedience to the Father.
The Church's own Scripture proclaims that Christ is the New Adam.... and the Church assents that Mary is the New Eve.
Adam's bride is Eve. Who is the New Adam's bride? The Scriptures reveal specifically that the Church is the Bride of Christ. I'm having trouble finding where you say Scripture proclaims Mary to be the Bride of Christ (aside from, as I mentioned earlier, Mary's inclusion in the Church).
Note that marriage is rooted in a profound mystery that Paul is revealing, the husband and wife relationship is all about Christ and the Church. Also note the link back to the first man and woman: "Therefore a man shall leave, etc".St. Paul wrote:Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands. Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church.
Paul, speaking to the Church at Corinth, says he betrothed them to Christ and even connects their status as the New Eve to the Old Eve by warning them against deception.St. Paul wrote:I wish you would bear with me in a little foolishness. Do bear with me! For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ. But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.
The New Adam and the New Eve are a Son and His Mother.
As Paul says, the Bride of Christ can be deceived as the Serpent deceived Eve. While the Church is the Divine Bride of Christ, She is also a human institution -- chock full of sinful and disobedient humans. That was Paul's point in calling his church to repent.
The analogy of the "New Adam and New Eve" is the undoing of the disobedience of our first parents. It is an analogy. The analogy is simple:
- Adam & Eve's sin separated us from God.
- Mary's obedience and faith allowed Christ to enter the world.
- Christ's obedience and death restored our relationship with God.
- the obedience of the New Eve and the New Adam undid the disobedience of our first parents.
By calling Mary the "New Eve," we are simply acknowledging her unique role in salvation history. We see that she belongs in a special class of historical biblical figures: with Abraham & Moses & John the Baptist, those who were specifically called and tested for their obedience.
Your tradition does not allow members to speak about Mary in this way. But we really don't have an argument. You believe all of this.
So then, what is the Church's role in salvation?..... The Church is way that we each enter into that Salvation is by our own obedient participation in Christ's Church. The Church is the Divine Hospital for the healing of sinners.