The problem is that you color (or at the very least, strongly seem to color) this in the form of a logical sequence: "If 1, then 2; if 2 then 3; yada yada …"tuttle wrote: ↑Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:42 amYeah...but you nixed all the reasons I gave for asking that question. Eternal decrees are found throughout the entirety of the Scriptures (This pattern is found all over: 1. God decrees > 2. Man responds in belief/unbelief > 3. God works all things for His glory and the good of his people using both the faithful and sinful reactions of humanity > 4. His word does not return void, but accomplishes that which He pleases)wosbald wrote: ↑Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:13 am(see bolded)tuttle wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:33 amIs there something wrong with eternal decrees? …wosbald wrote: ↑Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:19 amAnd with that, we're back full-circle: Eternal Decrees.
And is way of framing the issue essentially different than "submission"?
Cuz I'm not seein' it. Unfreedom is unfreedom.
I even provided an out so as not to tie Mary specifically up with any unfreedom! I thought I rode that fence quite well
[coloration added by Wos]
Instead of "God decrees > Man responds in belief/unbelief", what we're looking for (we, Catholics) is something more along the lines of this …
"God decrees <---> Man responds in belief/unbelief"