His Will Be Done

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His Will Be Done

Post by FredS » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:20 am

I often hear people say "His will be done." I also see it written here in the prayer threads.

Two things:
1. Do we really need to pray that His will be done? If we start with the supposition that His will will be done then why bother?

2. Or, are we really asking Him to conform us so that His will becomes ours and we come to accept it no matter how horrible it seems to us right now?

C. Believing that - in as much as He's cognizant of and cares about the niggling details of my daily life - His will is generally being done, I often pray that events unfold in the way that most pleases me, to heck with His will. I may pray to heal a sick child - without regard to His will. In moments of frustrated rage I scream out "I don't care about your will. This child is innocent. Fix this please. JUST FIX IT!" The psalms are full of such prayers asking Him to get us out of jams or to make our life better (by killing our enemies perhaps) or to heal the hurting. In those instances, are we asking God to change His will?
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Re: His Will Be Done

Post by FredS » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:27 am

I refer above to our pleading prayers for intercession like we pray over requests here on CPS. It's understood that that's only one part of a healthy prayer life. We have one or two guys who only come here to ask for prayer when their life has spun completely out of control and they don't know where else to go. I can certainly see this frustrating God (I know it frustrates me) and imagine Him saying "I don't know you. Why not come 'round when things are going good once in a while? Why don't you thank me at the end of each day? Why don't you give a little shout out when you see a smiling baby or beautiful sunset? Why didn't you pull up a chair and chat before you slept with your neighbors wife? Why didn't you try to make it to church a few times last year?"
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"One of the things I love about CPS is the frank and enthusiastic dysfunction here. God help me, I do love it so." – OldWorldSwine

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Re: His Will Be Done

Post by gaining_age » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:58 am

We have sin and fallen state. We have the "unseen realm" of regional deities of which we have the King of Kings and Lord of Lords -- but there may be tension/battles.

I see the "may your will be done on earth as in heaven" is that the heavens have order and motions that follow the plans (physics, etc.) and here we may have more tensions due to sin, etc. So, seeking that we would be in harmony in our lives with God to have His will be done on earth is a great prayer at the personal level as well as at the concern of the unseen realm level (powers and principalities) as well as human government.

It's perhaps more important than we realize as it was a portion of the example prayer.
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Re: His Will Be Done

Post by tuttle » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:18 am

FredS wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:20 am
I often hear people say "His will be done." I also see it written here in the prayer threads.

Two things:
1. Do we really need to pray that His will be done? If we start with the supposition that His will will be done then why bother?

2. Or, are we really asking Him to conform us so that His will becomes ours and we come to accept it no matter how horrible it seems to us right now?

C. Believing that - in as much as He's cognizant of and cares about the niggling details of my daily life - His will is generally being done, I often pray that events unfold in the way that most pleases me, to heck with His will. I may pray to heal a sick child - without regard to His will. In moments of frustrated rage I scream out "I don't care about your will. This child is innocent. Fix this please. JUST FIX IT!" The psalms are full of such prayers asking Him to get us out of jams or to make our life better (by killing our enemies perhaps) or to heal the hurting. In those instances, are we asking God to change His will?
CS Lewis said something to the effect that prayer was less for God than it was for us. That is, to pray that his will be done is sort of conforming ourselves to his will. Do we really need to pray for our daily bread if we went to the store yesterday? But Jesus, both as example and as instruction, would have us pray that way. Asking God for our daily needs and asking that his will be done.

I don't think that discredits what you have to say under Option C. As you say, the Psalms are full of that kind of prayer. Jesus himself even prayed that if the very thing that would accomplish our salvation could be taken away from him that the Father would do it, but then left it at, "but Thy will be done".
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Re: His Will Be Done

Post by FredS » Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:14 pm

tuttle wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:18 am
CS Lewis said something to the effect that prayer was less for God than it was for us.
At risk of picking a fresh scab, that famous Texas theologian - UncleBob - has written the same thing.
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Re: His Will Be Done

Post by Goose55 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:31 pm

And then you have those who tell someone that is suffering a loss of any kind, "It's God's will." Well, yes and no. No, it isn't His perfect will that that person suffer loss. Not from the beginning, anyway. But for the present such things are His permissive will. Temporarily.

I might be off of Fred's focus for the thread but I just needed to say this.
"At present we're on the wrong side of the door. But all the pages of the New Testament are rustling with the rumor that it will not always be so." ~ C.S. Lewis

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Re: His Will Be Done

Post by infidel » Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:44 pm

It's just an exercise in humility, lest we get the idea that we can boss God around or that if we go through the proper motions He somehow is obligated to grant our wishes.
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Re: His Will Be Done

Post by Thunktank » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:19 pm

I think praying for His will to be done is more for us than Him. After a while one stops praying for anything other than what His will would be, which is supposed to be the same as ours. That’s why we get taught to pray. It’s a Zen thing.

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Re: His Will Be Done

Post by FredS » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:52 pm

Thunktank wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:19 pm
I think praying for His will to be done is more for us than Him. After a while one stops praying for anything other than what His will would be, which is supposed to be the same as ours. That’s why we get taught to pray. It’s a Zen thing.
Yes, I think this is it.

But it's a long foodtrucking way from here to that place where I stop praying for anything other than His will.

What makes us any different then, when we say we're praying for one another, than secular office mates who say they're sending positive thoughts or good wishes? We know God hears the prayers of the righteous, but then what? Are we praying empty words just to make us and our suffering friends feel better?
"If we ever get to heaven boys, it aint because we aint done nothin' wrong" - Kris Kristofferson

"One of the things I love about CPS is the frank and enthusiastic dysfunction here. God help me, I do love it so." – OldWorldSwine

"I'd like to put a hook in that puppet and swing it through a bunch of salmon!" - durangopipe

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Re: His Will Be Done

Post by DepartedLight » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:54 pm

1. The Our Father.

2. The Prophet Daniel.

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Re: His Will Be Done

Post by FredS » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:43 pm

DepartedLight wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:54 pm
1. The Our Father.

2. The Prophet Daniel.
You know, of course, that The Lords Prayer asks for more than "His will to be done". It also asks for provision (food, and presumably health) and protection. It's far from being as simple as just praying "God's will be done".
"If we ever get to heaven boys, it aint because we aint done nothin' wrong" - Kris Kristofferson

"One of the things I love about CPS is the frank and enthusiastic dysfunction here. God help me, I do love it so." – OldWorldSwine

"I'd like to put a hook in that puppet and swing it through a bunch of salmon!" - durangopipe

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Re: His Will Be Done

Post by gaining_age » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:55 pm

FredS wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:52 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:19 pm
I think praying for His will to be done is more for us than Him. After a while one stops praying for anything other than what His will would be, which is supposed to be the same as ours. That’s why we get taught to pray. It’s a Zen thing.
Yes, I think this is it.

But it's a long foodtrucking way from here to that place where I stop praying for anything other than His will.

What makes us any different then, when we say we're praying for one another, than secular office mates who say they're sending positive thoughts or good wishes? We know God hears the prayers of the righteous, but then what? Are we praying empty words just to make us and our suffering friends feel better?
I have to fall back onto recognition of two things: yes, God hears and answers the prayers of a righteous man and second that it is Christ's righteousness that I must rely upon. To me this is in harmony with the phrase "abiding".

James 5:
13 Is anyone among you suffering? He should pray. Is anyone cheerful? He should sing praises. 14 Is anyone among you sick? He should call for the elders of the church, and they should pray over him after anointing him with olive oil in the name of the Lord. 15 The prayer of faith will save the sick person, and the Lord will restore him to health; if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, so that you may be healed. The urgent request of a righteous person is very powerful in its effect. 17 Elijah was a man with a nature like ours; yet he prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the land. 18 Then he prayed again, and the sky gave rain and the land produced its fruit.
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Re: His Will Be Done

Post by JMG » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:02 pm

When the disciples asked Jesus how to pray He did say "Thy will be done." So...there's that.
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Re: His Will Be Done

Post by Goose55 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:42 pm

"If we ever get to heaven boys, it aint because we aint done nothin' wrong" - Kris Kristofferson
"At present we're on the wrong side of the door. But all the pages of the New Testament are rustling with the rumor that it will not always be so." ~ C.S. Lewis

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Re: His Will Be Done

Post by Jester » Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:52 am

I agree that we should pray specific prayers for specific things. That we should pray for the radical, the unexpected or the impossible. I don't even think its wrong to pray a little selfishly (to an extent). Since I do not know the Fathers will I always make my plea. It is a sign of God's sovereignty on the true believer to cap off their plea with "His will to be done".

"Lord this is my request and if in Your sovereign will you choose not to fulfill it, not to take this from me, to do the opposite, or even perhaps lay even more of this suffering upon me, then you are still perfectly holy and worthy of all praise and all glory."

I think praying the other way could land us in the prosperity gospel thread. The heretical prayer prayed daily.

"Lord this is my request and I will worship you and know you love me if you choose to fulfill it, to take this from me, to do what I ask, or completely take this suffering from me."
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Re: His Will Be Done

Post by SlowToke » Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:05 am

Of course God's will is ultimately done but I don't believe His mind is always made up. I believe our prayers can sway God's final decision in matters. Ultimately, it is His will but he loves us and takes our desires into consideration. If this weren't the case, then there really wouldn't be any point in praying for intercession in our lives. There are examples of this throughout the bible. The book of Job is a perfect example.

Psalm 120:1 "In my trouble I cried to the Lord, And He answered me."
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Re: His Will Be Done

Post by Jocose » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:38 pm

If a son asks his father for bread, will he give him a stone or a serpent instead?

(Perhaps if hes on keto)
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Re: His Will Be Done

Post by FredS » Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:37 pm

Jocose wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:38 pm
If a son asks his father for bread, will he give him a stone or a serpent instead?
This is why I've not felt ashamed to (as Jester put it ) pray for the radical, the unexpected, or the impossible. If we're in a right relationship with Him, we can go to Abba and just lay it out. Regardless of how our fathers lived up to the task, we understand that the good ones always try to set the best course for their children and balance the scales of what's in their best interest.
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Re: His Will Be Done

Post by Preacher1611 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:50 am

When I'm praying and say "Thy will be done", or something to that effect, I say it because my request may not be his will. I may be asking God for a new job and he may not want me to have the job I'm praying about, so "Thy will Lord, not mine, be done" is a way, (to me anyway), of saying Lord I want this, but if you want something else, then what you want is more important. A way of reminding myself that God is in control and that his will is more important than mine. Like Paul's thorn in the flesh that he prayed three times for God to heal, and God said to him "My grace is sufficient for thee" Paul wanted healing and God wanted him to not be healed, as an example of God's strength being made perfect in weakness. (See 2 Corinthians 12) God's will may not be our will. "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man." - Eccl. 12:13

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