Why People Leave/Change Churches

For those deep thinkers out there.
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DepartedLight
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Re: Why People Leave Church

Post by DepartedLight » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:41 am

Thunktank wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:16 am
Cleon wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:21 am
Could it be due to the prevalent use of social media? No need to be around other people, even for worship, if you can get all your needs met online.
Maybe Jesus knew what he was doing when he instituted requirements for Presbyters, Holy Orders and Grace filled Sacraments?
Oxford comma foul called on the field.

After further review, we'll let it slide.
DL Jake

Feel free to use that quote in your signature. Stanley76 » 22 Feb 2019 21:50

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Re: Why People Leave Church

Post by Thunktank » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:49 am

DepartedLight wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:41 am
Thunktank wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:16 am
Cleon wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:21 am
Could it be due to the prevalent use of social media? No need to be around other people, even for worship, if you can get all your needs met online.
Maybe Jesus knew what he was doing when he instituted requirements for Presbyters, Holy Orders and Grace filled Sacraments?
Oxford comma foul called on the field.

After further review, we'll let it slide.
I never use Oxford commas. Oh well.
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” -Yoda

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Re: Why People Leave Church

Post by coco » Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:13 am

Thunktank wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:49 am
DepartedLight wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:41 am
Thunktank wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:16 am
Cleon wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:21 am
Could it be due to the prevalent use of social media? No need to be around other people, even for worship, if you can get all your needs met online.
Maybe Jesus knew what he was doing when he instituted requirements for Presbyters, Holy Orders and Grace filled Sacraments?
Oxford comma foul called on the field.

After further review, we'll let it slide.
I never use Oxford commas. Oh well.
Ever man has tragic failings. The lack of the Oxford comma is among the worst.

:wink:

Christian faith without church does involve a degree of innovation in the Christian faith.
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Re: Why People Leave Church

Post by Thunktank » Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:30 am

coco wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:13 am
Thunktank wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:49 am
DepartedLight wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:41 am
Thunktank wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:16 am
Cleon wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:21 am
Could it be due to the prevalent use of social media? No need to be around other people, even for worship, if you can get all your needs met online.
Maybe Jesus knew what he was doing when he instituted requirements for Presbyters, Holy Orders and Grace filled Sacraments?
Oxford comma foul called on the field.

After further review, we'll let it slide.
I never use Oxford commas. Oh well.
Ever man has tragic failings. The lack of the Oxford comma is among the worst.

:wink:
Nah, Maybe Jesus knew what he doing when he instituted requirements such as ordained presbyters, holy orders and grace filled sacraments.

See? No Oxford comma required. Better phrasing maybe, but no comma. :)
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” -Yoda

“I grew up in a church with Ned Flanders. Down to the mustache. But so did a bunch of people I assume, which makes it so fun-diddly-unny.” -tuttle

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Re: Why People Leave Church

Post by sweetandsour » Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:54 pm

Goose55 wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:18 am
sweetandsour wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:33 am
Roadmaster wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:24 am
Politics.
Yep. And control freaks.
I think the truth of whoever offers the most hope has the most authority is dead on. We saw this in the earthly ministry of Christ, and how such hope stirred the ire of those opposed to Him. Those who are filled with real hope can't be spiritually manipulated.
??? You obviously misunderstand what I was saying. This is why I don't care for conversations by "text". Whatever.
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Re: Why People Leave Church

Post by serapion » Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:20 pm

joegoat wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:27 pm
serapion wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:53 pm
joegoat wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:52 pm
serapion wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:23 am
A more important question, gentlemen, is why people in the millennial age bracket and down (30 - 18) are staying away from church.
I'm 27. I unfortunately fall into the millennial bracket and all the embarrassing stereotypes that come along with it. I'm turned off by many churches' attempts at attracting me. The coffee bar and jump around, whoopie woo worship is extremely off putting to me. The watered down message of God loves you no matter what, so live however you want and if you're really saved, things will just be swell with not so much as a bump in the road.
When I moved away from home, finding a new church was a very high priority for me. I found a home with the Anglicans. I love worshiping in a liturgy! Partaking in Holy Communion every week as a body of believers is wonderful. It's simple straight forward Christianity.
I've since moved again and I'm still on the hunt. I've recently found an Anglican congregation that we've attended and both liked it, but my wife grew up in this area and has roots in a church here so we go there by default. I'm not particularly fond of them and we both understand this. Their worship is of the aforementioned type and though I Iike the pastor and think his head is on straight, they have a lot of folks who take what he says in a message and just take it to the point of no return. "No condemnation" is a catch phrase that seems to mean do whatever you want to some folks. They're big on "healing." I very much believe that there are miraculous healings through The Spirit, but they seem to believe that our earthly bodies will never be inflicted by so much as an ache. Even if someone is clinically ill, once hands are laid on them they are healed. They might still be taking the full dose of medication to keep the symptoms mostly at bay and the tests are still coming back very positive, but they are healed... The shame is, there are some great people there! I've never had that good feeling of, "this is home" there.
Maybe I can't speak for my entire generation, but I just want something real. All I want is a hearty piece of cake. There is no need for two inches of icing piled on top to make it look better. It doesn't need to be a new recipe either, Good ol' fashioned vanilla is fine by me.
Well said! And you are confirming something I suspected.
My age, premature curmudgeonous, or love of icingless cake?
:lol: Guess I should explain that!

None of those things. Rather the yearning for something "real", ancient and solid rather than uber-market oriented stuff that could be a new breakfast food, a line of curated men's goods or Jesus. I actually passed your comments (anonymously) to my mostly millennial kids to see if they feel similarly. So far only one has responded as yet, basically that she is looking for what is real too.
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Re: Why People Leave Church

Post by harkpuff » Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:01 pm

Scripture says that in the last days man will no longer tolerate sound doctrine. It's either....entertain me....wow me with the bling of amenities....feed me with the warm and fuzzy feel-good sermons and by-all-means stay-off-my-toes with the hard parts of doctrine....or I'm outa here.
We lost 1/3rd of our congregation almost overnight when the preacher decided he was going to start including in his sermons some of the meat of the word rather than the just the baby formula this congregation had been used to . One couples final statement when they left the church was "We only want to hear sermons that make us feel good about ourselves". And these were not new believers. These were folks who had been involved in the church for years.
This day and age....If you want to clear out a church fast, just start preaching on the tough topics like sin and repentance. The question is.....how do you preach the gospel of Jesus Christ and not include sin and repentance????
Also, I believe scripture indicates that in the last days there will be a great falling away.
Could be this great falling away and the fact that mankind will no longer tolerate the sound doctrine of the Bible, may be some preliminary separating of the sheep and the goats. As we near the return of the Lord for the final judgement and the trials and tribulations of this earth really begin to heat up, this may create conditions that will reveal who the true believers are and those who are not.
It could be that the church that that boldly and unapologetically stands-on and preaches ALL of the truth of Scripture....the easy along with the hard parts....may find their numbers dwindling. On the other hand, the fact that a church is exploding in size may not be a good indicator that they are teaching and preaching what God intends. I have heard of and at one time attended a church where the leadership first reviewed and edited the preachers sermons to be sure they were palatable. There were some Biblical passages that would never be preached because they were viewed as offensive. 1 Cor. chapter 5 for example, they felt would really rankle the hide of some of their congregational members. I believe, there should be no part of Scripture that should be avoided for fear of how the people may react. I believe God will have something to say to the preacher of the Gospel or church leaders who put the possible reaction of the flock above the message of God's Word.

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Re: Why People Leave Church

Post by durangopipe » Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:28 pm

CodeMonkey wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:19 pm
To me the obvious answer is because the service was over.
“Lyle Lovett” wrote:
And the moral of this story
Children it is plain but true
God knows if a preacher preaches long enough
Even he'll get hungry too

And he'll sing

To the lord let praises be
It's time for dinner now let's go eat
We've got some beans and some good cornbread
Now listen to what the preacher said
He said to the lord let praises be
It's time for dinner now let's go eat

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zZI0zO2TS ... fullscreen
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Re: Why People Leave Church

Post by UncleBob » Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:40 pm

I get that some may not want to hear about sin and repentance. But let's be fair, there are many other reasons as well including sex scandals, money scams, hatred, and much more. The biggest single reason people are leaving the church (or The Church) is "the church", IMO. The Gospel hasn't changed it is the one who say they are "proclaiming" it. This is just my opinion. One day, maybe, I'll research it systematically and maybe find out.
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Re: Why People Leave Church

Post by CupOjoe » Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:39 pm

I think the research in the OP and the realty of why people leave is not in line. Yes, most believers will consider leaving over doctrinal/theology changes, but in reality, most leave over trivial non-essential reasons that often involve preferences over convictions.

Being a Bapticostaltarian who has been on staff at Southern Baptist Churches over the last few years, I’m yet to see someone leave over a theological change of the church, but I have seen them leave over a personal theological shift.

In the SBC, your biggest theological shift would be between reformed and non-reformed leanings. Second to that would be socially centric theology (Things like Alchohol). It will be a little while before the sbc churches make shifts on big issues, things like homosexuality or abortion.

Obviously, this is all from my perspective here in the Bible Belt so yours may be very different.

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Re: Why People Leave Church

Post by harkpuff » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:25 pm

UncleBob wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:40 pm
I get that some may not want to hear about sin and repentance. But let's be fair, there are many other reasons as well including sex scandals, money scams, hatred, and much more. The biggest single reason people are leaving the church (or The Church) is "the church", IMO. The Gospel hasn't changed it is the one who say they are "proclaiming" it. This is just my opinion. One day, maybe, I'll research it systematically and maybe find out.

The reasons people leave the church as as numerous as there are people. I think between all who have commented so far we have pretty much covered the gammut of reasons. Since the reasons are so numerous it would be nearly impossible to completely plug the dike. Not to say that we shouldn't try.
You are right that the Gospel has not changed. LIke Scripture indicates, God is the same yesterday, today and forever. However, Satan has done a fine job of distorting the message causing confusion among its messengers.

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Re: Why People Leave Church

Post by harkpuff » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:42 pm

CupOjoe wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:39 pm
I think the research in the OP and the realty of why people leave is not in line. Yes, most believers will consider leaving over doctrinal/theology changes, but in reality, most leave over trivial non-essential reasons that often involve preferences over convictions.

Being a Bapticostaltarian who has been on staff at Southern Baptist Churches over the last few years, I’m yet to see someone leave over a theological change of the church, but I have seen them leave over a personal theological shift.

In the SBC, your biggest theological shift would be between reformed and non-reformed leanings. Second to that would be socially centric theology (Things like Alchohol). It will be a little while before the sbc churches make shifts on big issues, things like homosexuality or abortion.

Obviously, this is all from my perspective here in the Bible Belt so yours may be very different.
My buddy, in his 40's, attended for his entire childhood and up to his recent adult life a church that was for most of these years very Biblically sound. He had been an elder in this church for the last six or eight years. He said he witnessed the preaching leadership in this church going south doctrinally for the last four or five years. The straw that broke the camels back was when the preacher announced one day that this congregation would now be acknowledging, celebrating, uplifting and ordaining those of the LGBT lifestyle. The LGBT lifestyle would be fully accepted and allowed to serve in all capacities within the church including teaching and preaching. This church then held a LGBT celebration dance in their multi-purpose room. Needless to say this congregation lost 75% of its members literally overnight. This was a theological shift within this church that nearly cleaned it out.

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Re: Why People Leave Church

Post by Sledin » Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:12 am

The title of the survey was "change churches", not "leave the church", those could be two different demographics. Those who change churches are probably more committed to Christ and want to follow Him, those who leave don't like the Gospels message or don't see it's work in their own or others lives.


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Re: Why People Leave Church

Post by Goose55 » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:53 am

durangopipe wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:28 pm
CodeMonkey wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:19 pm
To me the obvious answer is because the service was over.
“Lyle Lovett” wrote:
And the moral of this story
Children it is plain but true
God knows if a preacher preaches long enough
Even he'll get hungry too

And he'll sing

To the lord let praises be
It's time for dinner now let's go eat
We've got some beans and some good cornbread
Now listen to what the preacher said
He said to the lord let praises be
It's time for dinner now let's go eat

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zZI0zO2TS ... fullscreen
That's a great tune.
"At present we're on the wrong side of the door. But all the pages of the New Testament are rustling with the rumor that it will not always be so." ~ C.S. Lewis

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Re: Why People Leave Church

Post by FredS » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:59 am

coco wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:13 am
Christian faith without church does involve a degree of innovation in the Christian faith.
But the American way is to be fiercely independent. A pastor friend says we're like cows rather than sheep, who need a Shepard.
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Re: Why People Leave Church

Post by Hovannes » Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:02 pm

FredS wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:59 am
coco wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:13 am
Christian faith without church does involve a degree of innovation in the Christian faith.
But the American way is to be fiercely independent. A pastor friend says we're like cows rather than sheep, who need a Shepard.
Bull whips and electric cattle prods? 8-O Sounds kind of kinky for a pastor!Image
"What doesn't kill you, gives you a lot of unhealthy coping mechanisms and a really dark sense of humor."

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Re: Why People Leave/Change Churches

Post by UncleBob » Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:09 pm

Just do a Google search for "sex abuse scandals Christian". That could have something to do with it.
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

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Re: Why People Leave/Change Churches

Post by Hovannes » Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:18 pm

UncleBob wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:09 pm
Just do a Google search for "sex abuse scandals Christian". That could have something to do with it.
Then do a search for "sex abuse scandals in public schools."
"What doesn't kill you, gives you a lot of unhealthy coping mechanisms and a really dark sense of humor."

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Re: Why People Leave/Change Churches

Post by UncleBob » Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:27 pm

Hovannes wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:18 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:09 pm
Just do a Google search for "sex abuse scandals Christian". That could have something to do with it.
Then do a search for "sex abuse scandals in public schools."
Ah yes! The old tu quoque twaddle.

Do you think that The Church, The Bride of Christ, should be held to the legal standard that pedophilia is always illegal and maybe even, just maybe, the moral standard of that's always wrong?

Just checking for a friend.
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

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Re: Why People Leave/Change Churches

Post by Hovannes » Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:09 pm

UncleBob wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:27 pm
Hovannes wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:18 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:09 pm
Just do a Google search for "sex abuse scandals Christian". That could have something to do with it.
Then do a search for "sex abuse scandals in public schools."
Ah yes! The old tu quoque twaddle.

Do you think that The Church, The Bride of Christ, should be held to the legal standard that pedophilia is always illegal and maybe even, just maybe, the moral standard of that's always wrong?

Just checking for a friend.
Nope.
Only to show that pedophila is by far more commonplace among school teachers than it is among clergy.
If this is a valid concern for taking children out of public schools for home schooling, why are so many State hostile to home schooling?

The answer is fear mongering. A pastor is publicly convicted and shamed long before the case ever gets to court to be determined by the rule of law. It is the same with teachers but you won't read anything about it a month later, or years later when ex students bring suit for emotional trauma.
Church goers are going to fear pastors, rightly or wrongly accused---much like the LAPD that murdered the homeless lady being held hostage recently, the public isn't going to look at the LAPD in the same way again. people tend to look at the profession when making up their minds.
You won't find that level of coverage being given to pedophile public school teachers.
My local State University even had a few profs convicted of various sex crimes. They weren't "let go" and are still teaching, after being convicted.
I doubt if anyone on campus even remembers their names---but I remember one in the Geography Dept.
I'm not trying to make an asymmetrical argument here, only to point out that if you're going to bet that your child is being endangered by a pedophile, a faculty member is statistically more of a threat than a pastor.
Me? I don't necessarily trust statistics but I do consider them.
"What doesn't kill you, gives you a lot of unhealthy coping mechanisms and a really dark sense of humor."

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