Non-Traditional Ministry

For those deep thinkers out there.
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UncleBob
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Non-Traditional Ministry

Post by UncleBob » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:12 am

"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

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Re: Non-Traditional Ministry

Post by Jester » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:23 am

Leave it to Jen Hatmaker to go do acts of kindness and forget to preach the gospel.
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"O Christmas Tree is going to be a dirge in his home this year I fear."

We almost solved the Mary issue. -FredS

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Re: Non-Traditional Ministry

Post by UncleBob » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:26 am

"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

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Re: Non-Traditional Ministry

Post by Thunktank » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:32 am

Jester wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:23 am
Leave it to Jen Hatmaker to go do acts of kindness and forget to preach the gospel.
Doing acts of kindness is preaching the gospel. Albeit, these mom and dad hugs are a bit odd. It's a shame they're needed. I at least hope the real mom and dad will have open arms when the appropriate time comes.
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” -Yoda

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Re: Non-Traditional Ministry

Post by Jester » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:40 am

Thunktank wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:32 am
Jester wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:23 am
Leave it to Jen Hatmaker to go do acts of kindness and forget to preach the gospel.
Doing acts of kindness is preaching the gospel. Albeit, these mom and dad hugs are a bit odd. It's a shame they're needed. I at least hope the real mom and dad will have open arms when the appropriate time comes.
I agree they are needed but it is not the gospel. If Muslims or Mormons walk around hugging people those people are not converted by the good news of Jesus Christ.
Pumpkin Ale is more American than apple pie! -Tuttle

"O Christmas Tree is going to be a dirge in his home this year I fear."

We almost solved the Mary issue. -FredS

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Re: Non-Traditional Ministry

Post by Cleon » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:40 am

I don't like to touch people. I'd rather just talk with them.
Greet one another with a holy kiss

Do I have to? Blech. :lol:
"Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven" - Jesus

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Re: Non-Traditional Ministry

Post by Thoth » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:51 am

Cleon wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:40 am
I don't like to touch people. I'd rather just talk with them.
Greet one another with a holy kiss

Do I have to? Blech. :lol:
You'd do well then to avoid Armenian orthodox liturgies, they kiss on the cheeks.
"Go and reconcile with him who has trespassed against you before he comes and apologises to you and steals your crown" - H.H. Pope Cyril VI<br><br>"O Lord I was not aware of the treasure within me that is You" - H.H. Pope Shenouda III

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Re: Non-Traditional Ministry

Post by Cleon » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:01 am

Thoth wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:51 am
Cleon wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:40 am
I don't like to touch people. I'd rather just talk with them.
Greet one another with a holy kiss

Do I have to? Blech. :lol:
You'd do well then to avoid Armenian orthodox liturgies, they kiss on the cheeks.
Hairy cheeks at that.
"Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven" - Jesus

"More people need to put their big boy britches on." - JMG

"Dang, a pipe slap." - JimVH

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Re: Non-Traditional Ministry

Post by Thoth » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:04 am

Jester wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:40 am
Thunktank wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:32 am
Jester wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:23 am
Leave it to Jen Hatmaker to go do acts of kindness and forget to preach the gospel.
Doing acts of kindness is preaching the gospel. Albeit, these mom and dad hugs are a bit odd. It's a shame they're needed. I at least hope the real mom and dad will have open arms when the appropriate time comes.
I agree they are needed but it is not the gospel. If Muslims or Mormons walk around hugging people those people are not converted by the good news of Jesus Christ.
Its nice they are doing acts of kindness but if they just added "by God" to the phrase they were repeating when hugging people I'd feel less cynical about the whole thing (then again fully aware how I feel is irrelevant and not a proper gauge of things)
"Go and reconcile with him who has trespassed against you before he comes and apologises to you and steals your crown" - H.H. Pope Cyril VI<br><br>"O Lord I was not aware of the treasure within me that is You" - H.H. Pope Shenouda III

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Re: Non-Traditional Ministry

Post by Del » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:14 am

On one hand -- everyone needs to be loved and shown love, especially prodigal sinners.

On the other hand -- It is not loving to confirm the sinner in his sin.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"I shall not wear a crown of gold where my Master wore a crown of thorns." - Godfrey de Bouillon

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Re: Non-Traditional Ministry

Post by Jester » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:43 am

Thoth wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:04 am
Jester wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:40 am
Thunktank wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:32 am
Jester wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:23 am
Leave it to Jen Hatmaker to go do acts of kindness and forget to preach the gospel.
Doing acts of kindness is preaching the gospel. Albeit, these mom and dad hugs are a bit odd. It's a shame they're needed. I at least hope the real mom and dad will have open arms when the appropriate time comes.
I agree they are needed but it is not the gospel. If Muslims or Mormons walk around hugging people those people are not converted by the good news of Jesus Christ.
Its nice they are doing acts of kindness but if they just added "by God" to the phrase they were repeating when hugging people I'd feel less cynical about the whole thing (then again fully aware how I feel is irrelevant and not a proper gauge of things)
I guess I jumped in pretty cynical on this one but this isn't Jen's first "LOOK AT MY WORKS" headline this year. Always wanting us to look at her works and not even an honorable mention of the name of Jesus.

I know a group of about 12 people who banded together with their own money and who bought matching t-shirts when Joplin MO got slammed by that tornado. They all took off work and went down there for a week rebuilding and serving in food lines. Not one of those people were Christians nor should they have to be to due such a thing. The point is when you purposely go under the banner of the Church you go to preach Christ. What is the difference between Christians and secular organizations if not the vocal explanation of a need for a savior?
Pumpkin Ale is more American than apple pie! -Tuttle

"O Christmas Tree is going to be a dirge in his home this year I fear."

We almost solved the Mary issue. -FredS

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Re: Non-Traditional Ministry

Post by Thunktank » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:59 am

Jester wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:40 am
Thunktank wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:32 am
Jester wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:23 am
Leave it to Jen Hatmaker to go do acts of kindness and forget to preach the gospel.
Doing acts of kindness is preaching the gospel. Albeit, these mom and dad hugs are a bit odd. It's a shame they're needed. I at least hope the real mom and dad will have open arms when the appropriate time comes.
I agree they are needed but it is not the gospel. If Muslims or Mormons walk around hugging people those people are not converted by the good news of Jesus Christ.
The sinner Zacchaeus wanted to come see Jesus so badly that he climbed a Tree and vowed to change his ways and pay back who he did wrong, even doing penance by giving back more than he stole. Jesus went to his house in love and quite possibly greeted him with a kiss.

In this case people come in the name of some “church” with mommy and daddy hugs for people who wish to remain in their sin. All the while acting as though they have true love for them while assuming that these people who come to get a hug are forever banished from their parents love. No doubt, some may well be, but many of those parents may also be waiting to hug them when they come to their home in peace.

I had a gay client once who complained to me that she was estranged from her folks. I asked about the circumstances to it. Well, in a nutshell she didn’t feel welcome because her parents simply didn’t want her insisting that she should be allowed to have her partner with her in a bed in her parents own home! I felt like suggesting that maybe she shouldn’t expect such a welcome when she knows full well how her parents believe, but I’m sure then I would have been fired from my services in finding her and her partner a place to live so I didn’t. :lol:
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” -Yoda

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Re: Non-Traditional Ministry

Post by tuttle » Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:37 pm

Del wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:14 am
On one hand -- everyone needs to be loved and shown love, especially prodigal sinners.

On the other hand -- It is not loving to confirm the sinner in his sin.
Bingo.
"The Evangelium has not abrogated legends; it has hallowed them" -JRR Tolkien

"Better to die cheerfully with the aid of a little tobacco, than to live disagreeably and remorseful without." -CS Lewis

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Re: Non-Traditional Ministry

Post by FredS » Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:19 pm

Jester wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:23 am
Leave it to Jen Hatmaker to go do acts of kindness and forget to preach the gospel.
Bring on the Hatmaker hate. What in the world does giving someone a hug have to do with preaching the gospel? Preaching the gospel was presumably not their intent that day. But "WHOA" you say, "We're always to preach the gospel." Remember the phrase (wrongly) attributed to St. Francis of Assisi that we should "Preach the Gospel at all times. Use words if necessary." Granted, St Francis probably didn't really say that, but it is a Franciscan rule that their deeds match their words or their words will mean nothing. Refer to John 3:16 and let us know why God gave His only begotten Son.

Does being nice to, or even loving, someone mean you accept everything they do? I try (really, I do) to be nice to both Bob and Del, but if I accepted everything each does I'd be a schizo.
"If we ever get to heaven boys, it aint because we aint done nothin' wrong" - Kris Kristofferson

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Re: Non-Traditional Ministry

Post by Del » Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:25 pm

FredS wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:19 pm
Jester wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:23 am
Leave it to Jen Hatmaker to go do acts of kindness and forget to preach the gospel.
Bring on the Hatmaker hate. What in the world does giving someone a hug have to do with preaching the gospel? Preaching the gospel was presumably not their intent that day. But "WHOA" you say, "We're always to preach the gospel." Remember the phrase (wrongly) attributed to St. Francis of Assisi that we should "Preach the Gospel at all times. Use words if necessary." Granted, St Francis probably didn't really say that, but it is a Franciscan rule that their deeds match their words or their words will mean nothing. Refer to John 3:16 and let us know why God gave His only begotten Son.

Does being nice to, or even loving, someone mean you accept everything they do? I try (really, I do) to be nice to both Bob and Del, but if I accepted everything each does I'd be a schizo.
And even if you don't....
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"I shall not wear a crown of gold where my Master wore a crown of thorns." - Godfrey de Bouillon

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Jester
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Re: Non-Traditional Ministry

Post by Jester » Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:37 pm

FredS wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:19 pm
Jester wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:23 am
Leave it to Jen Hatmaker to go do acts of kindness and forget to preach the gospel.
Bring on the Hatmaker hate. What in the world does giving someone a hug have to do with preaching the gospel? Preaching the gospel was presumably not their intent that day.
I guess I conflated the thread title with the article. It's not only a non-traditional ministry, it's also a non-ministry. If you are not ministering but just hugging people.... ok.
Pumpkin Ale is more American than apple pie! -Tuttle

"O Christmas Tree is going to be a dirge in his home this year I fear."

We almost solved the Mary issue. -FredS

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Re: Non-Traditional Ministry

Post by FredS » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:04 pm

Jester wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:37 pm
FredS wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:19 pm
Jester wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:23 am
Leave it to Jen Hatmaker to go do acts of kindness and forget to preach the gospel.
Bring on the Hatmaker hate. What in the world does giving someone a hug have to do with preaching the gospel? Preaching the gospel was presumably not their intent that day.
I guess I conflated the thread title with the article. It's not only a non-traditional ministry, it's also a non-ministry. If you are not ministering but just hugging people.... ok.
Following Bob's lead is almost never a good idea.
"If we ever get to heaven boys, it aint because we aint done nothin' wrong" - Kris Kristofferson

"One of the things I love about CPS is the frank and enthusiastic dysfunction here. God help me, I do love it so." – OldWorldSwine

"I'd like to put a hook in that puppet and swing it through a bunch of salmon!" - durangopipe

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Re: Non-Traditional Ministry

Post by Gabriel » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:48 pm

Full disclosure: I did not read the article at all. Did not click on that link.

But I did get a head shaking moment out of this:

CPS: Hey, those people are giving folks hugs, isn't that a cool/interesting/creative way to minister to people?

Also CPS: Yeah, but they're doin' it wrong.
Sola Deo Gloria

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Re: Non-Traditional Ministry

Post by coco » Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:08 pm

Jester wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:37 pm
FredS wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:19 pm
Jester wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:23 am
Leave it to Jen Hatmaker to go do acts of kindness and forget to preach the gospel.
Bring on the Hatmaker hate. What in the world does giving someone a hug have to do with preaching the gospel? Preaching the gospel was presumably not their intent that day.
I guess I conflated the thread title with the article. It's not only a non-traditional ministry, it's also a non-ministry. If you are not ministering but just hugging people.... ok.
It is not "evangelism," since the gospel is not being shared. (The gospel, in the Bible, always refers to a verbal proclamation of the person and work of Christ.) However, it might legitimately be called "ministry," as it is an outpouring of Christian love (hopefully).

If you want gay people to listen to you, it would help if you didn't fit into the Westboro Baptist stereotype. So, something like this might open doors to sharing the gospel. Mom hugs seem like a good idea to me.
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Re: Non-Traditional Ministry

Post by ryland » Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:18 pm

coco wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:08 pm
Jester wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:37 pm
FredS wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:19 pm
Jester wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:23 am
Leave it to Jen Hatmaker to go do acts of kindness and forget to preach the gospel.
Bring on the Hatmaker hate. What in the world does giving someone a hug have to do with preaching the gospel? Preaching the gospel was presumably not their intent that day.
I guess I conflated the thread title with the article. It's not only a non-traditional ministry, it's also a non-ministry. If you are not ministering but just hugging people.... ok.
It is not "evangelism," since the gospel is not being shared. (The gospel, in the Bible, always refers to a verbal proclamation of the person and work of Christ.) However, it might legitimately be called "ministry," as it is an outpouring of Christian love (hopefully).

If you want gay people to listen to you, it would help if you didn't fit into the Westboro Baptist stereotype. So, something like this might open doors to sharing the gospel. Mom hugs seem like a good idea to me.
Measured and helpful.
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