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Re: Subdue the Earth--That'll Larn 'Em!

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:31 pm
by Nature of a Man
durangopipe wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:09 pm
“Francis of Assisi” wrote:Ask the beasts and they will teach you the beauty of this earth.
Having posted this, and believing it with all of my heart, I remain a hunter.

Dominion.
Stewardship.
I recall a verse in the Bible mentioning watching the way of the ants as a way to understand God's creation (I don't remember the verse unfortunately) - as a child, I recall spending a lot of time fascinated with ants and how orderly their societies seemed to be. (I remember killing quite a few ants as well, lol)

Some time ago, I read an article about a giant ant mound which was excavated and filled with concrete, which is allegedly comparable to a modern human metropolis complete with fungus gardens, plumbing, or irrigation, or the ants' equivalent of people building the Great Wall of China.

https://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-a ... etropolis/

Re: Subdue the Earth--That'll Larn 'Em!

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:22 am
by Cleon
durangopipe wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:09 pm
“Francis of Assisi” wrote:Ask the beasts and they will teach you the beauty of this earth.
Your avatar, man.

Re: Subdue the Earth--That'll Larn 'Em!

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:01 am
by Goose55
Its come to the point that being "fruitful" and multiplying, & subduing the earth, is destroying the earth. In that, I guess, we learn. But maybe too late. What else can we do?

Re: Subdue the Earth--That'll Larn 'Em!

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:09 am
by FredS
durangopipe wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:09 pm
“Francis of Assisi” wrote:Ask the beasts and they will teach you the beauty of this earth.
Having posted this, and believing it with all of my heart, I remain a hunter.

Dominion.
Stewardship.
Though it doesn't usually come immediately to mind when someone asks a hunter/fisher why they go afield, I think the tension you mentioned is a part of the experience, in a weird or maybe twisted way that's difficult to put to words. We all know slobs - those guys we only go out with once - with a lust for blood, but most hunters/fishers over the age of, say, 25 years, at least consider that tension when they kill or injure an animal.

Re: Subdue the Earth--That'll Larn 'Em!

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:30 am
by FredS
Goose55 wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:01 am
Its come to the point that being "fruitful" and multiplying, & subduing the earth, is destroying the earth. In that, I guess, we learn. But maybe too late. What else can we do?
Two things:

1. It's not too late. We can't recreate extinct animals but we can care for the flora and fauna we still have. We've made great strides in conservation over the last half century and we're relearning to live more in harmony with the natural world. It's perfectly OK for us to impact the environment but as our population grows we must continue to make out per capita impact less and less. There's a horribly twisted thought that's popular now among some groups of young people that the earth would be a better place if humans were extinct. You came very close to saying as much in your post.

B. I'm not convinced the earth was ever intended to last forever. It's not a pleasant thought and I certainly don't condone wanton waste but all resources are finite. Even our 'dream source' for energy - the sun - is burning out. Tidal friction is slowing the moons orbit and the earths rotation. It's winding down and will (probably) die some day.

[EDIT] - Dang man. Just as I hit the submit button, I heard a report that air pollution in Denver and the northern Front Range has worsened and the region missed an extended deadline to meet federal health standards. We not only flunked the EPA standard set in 2015, but we never met the older, less-strict standard from 2008. Colorado Sun report
Maybe Goose is right. We're doomed.

Re: Subdue the Earth--That'll Larn 'Em!

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:48 am
by Joshoowah
durangopipe wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:01 pm
Christian principles and practice, throughout church history, demonstrate worshipful responses to the gift of creation as manifested both in dominion and in stewardship.

Dominion and stewardship can appear to be in conflict; certainly, they exist in tension. The resolution of that tension is no simple matter, but difficulty is no excuse for avoiding the struggle.

I looked up a lot of references to dominion and stewardship before posting. Much has been written about this conflict in both popular theology and in scholarly theology. Believing the biblical truth that man is created in God’s image and that he is given dominion over God’s creation does not obviate the simultaneous responsibility for stewardship of God’s creation.

One interesting take on this I just read stresses the evident glory of creation as a way for the non-believer to come to know God. Destruction of creation, diminution of its glory, not only disrespects God but hinders discovery of Him through the experience of that glory by others.

There are many other canonical and traditional arguments supporting the Christian obligation for stewardship. I’ll leave it to each of us to study this matter in our own way and in our own time, but to frame the resolution as an either or is neither necessary nor appropriate.

I’m not sure that the linked post UB started this thread with is as much a product of serious, humble study and reflection as it might be; further, the comment about the appropriateness of pets might have more to do with a childhood in farming and an understanding of animals as livestock formed through that experience than a deep study of Christian tradition and scripture.

But that may just be my own personal bias.
I make no claim of serious study of the matter.

Rather, I know the bond that exists between a man and a dog. I find it hard to believe this good and beautiful thing is not a gift from God.
I want to point out to that our English meaning of the words "dominion" and "subdue" have a negative connotation, more often than not. The Hebrew meaning and concept is much like that of a gardener. In a nutshell, roles of humanity? Create life (bring it forth) and sustain life.

Re: Subdue the Earth--That'll Larn 'Em!

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:04 am
by Cleon
Joshoowah wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:48 am
durangopipe wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:01 pm
Christian principles and practice, throughout church history, demonstrate worshipful responses to the gift of creation as manifested both in dominion and in stewardship.

Dominion and stewardship can appear to be in conflict; certainly, they exist in tension. The resolution of that tension is no simple matter, but difficulty is no excuse for avoiding the struggle.

I looked up a lot of references to dominion and stewardship before posting. Much has been written about this conflict in both popular theology and in scholarly theology. Believing the biblical truth that man is created in God’s image and that he is given dominion over God’s creation does not obviate the simultaneous responsibility for stewardship of God’s creation.

One interesting take on this I just read stresses the evident glory of creation as a way for the non-believer to come to know God. Destruction of creation, diminution of its glory, not only disrespects God but hinders discovery of Him through the experience of that glory by others.

There are many other canonical and traditional arguments supporting the Christian obligation for stewardship. I’ll leave it to each of us to study this matter in our own way and in our own time, but to frame the resolution as an either or is neither necessary nor appropriate.

I’m not sure that the linked post UB started this thread with is as much a product of serious, humble study and reflection as it might be; further, the comment about the appropriateness of pets might have more to do with a childhood in farming and an understanding of animals as livestock formed through that experience than a deep study of Christian tradition and scripture.

But that may just be my own personal bias.
I make no claim of serious study of the matter.

Rather, I know the bond that exists between a man and a dog. I find it hard to believe this good and beautiful thing is not a gift from God.
I want to point out to that our English meaning of the words "dominion" and "subdue" have a negative connotation, more often than not. The Hebrew meaning and concept is much like that of a gardener. In a nutshell, roles of humanity? Create life (bring it forth) and sustain life.
The best rendering that made sense to me was "cultivate".

Re: Subdue the Earth--That'll Larn 'Em!

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:44 am
by Joshoowah
Cleon wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:04 am
Joshoowah wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:48 am
durangopipe wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:01 pm
Christian principles and practice, throughout church history, demonstrate worshipful responses to the gift of creation as manifested both in dominion and in stewardship.

Dominion and stewardship can appear to be in conflict; certainly, they exist in tension. The resolution of that tension is no simple matter, but difficulty is no excuse for avoiding the struggle.

I looked up a lot of references to dominion and stewardship before posting. Much has been written about this conflict in both popular theology and in scholarly theology. Believing the biblical truth that man is created in God’s image and that he is given dominion over God’s creation does not obviate the simultaneous responsibility for stewardship of God’s creation.

One interesting take on this I just read stresses the evident glory of creation as a way for the non-believer to come to know God. Destruction of creation, diminution of its glory, not only disrespects God but hinders discovery of Him through the experience of that glory by others.

There are many other canonical and traditional arguments supporting the Christian obligation for stewardship. I’ll leave it to each of us to study this matter in our own way and in our own time, but to frame the resolution as an either or is neither necessary nor appropriate.

I’m not sure that the linked post UB started this thread with is as much a product of serious, humble study and reflection as it might be; further, the comment about the appropriateness of pets might have more to do with a childhood in farming and an understanding of animals as livestock formed through that experience than a deep study of Christian tradition and scripture.

But that may just be my own personal bias.
I make no claim of serious study of the matter.

Rather, I know the bond that exists between a man and a dog. I find it hard to believe this good and beautiful thing is not a gift from God.
I want to point out to that our English meaning of the words "dominion" and "subdue" have a negative connotation, more often than not. The Hebrew meaning and concept is much like that of a gardener. In a nutshell, roles of humanity? Create life (bring it forth) and sustain life.
The best rendering that made sense to me was "cultivate".
You're pretty much on point.

Re: Subdue the Earth--That'll Larn 'Em!

Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:29 am
by UncleBob
The world's oceans are warming far faster than thought
The world's oceans have absorbed about 60% more heat during the past 25 years than previously estimated, according to a new study published in the journal Nature. The study takes advantage of a new method that can serve as a whole ocean thermometer.

Why it matters: If the ocean is absorbing even more heat than observed, it would suggest future global warming will track on the upper end of projections — possibly as high as 5°C, or 9°F, by 2100 if emissions are not significantly curtailed.

The oceans are absorbing about 93% of the extra energy from increasing amounts of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere.

Re: Subdue the Earth--That'll Larn 'Em!

Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:12 pm
by Gabriel
durangopipe wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:01 pm

____________________ and ___________________ can appear to be in conflict; certainly, they exist in tension. The resolution of that tension is no simple matter, but difficulty is no excuse for avoiding the struggle.

I looked up a lot of references to _________________ and ________________ before posting.

But that may just be my own personal bias.
I make no claim of serious study of the matter.
Seems like a perfect template for posts about virtually any subject matter, Biblical, political, moral, or recreational.

Re: Subdue the Earth--That'll Larn 'Em!

Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:03 pm
by Hovannes
gaining_age wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:17 pm
durangopipe wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:11 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:26 pm
I cant find that gif of Grandpa Simpson coming into the whore house, hanging his hat, seeing Bart and then casually grabbing his hat and walking back out.

Would you mind taking it as read that that gif encapsulates my feelings towards this thread and the direction it has taken?

Thank you. This has been a recording.
This is the first time I realized that was a brothel.
I always wondered what Bart was doing.
Ditto.
Jeeez, don't have a cow, man!
As a juvenile pimping won't go on his adult record anyway.

Re: Subdue the Earth--That'll Larn 'Em!

Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:46 pm
by durangopipe
Hovannes wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:03 pm
gaining_age wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:17 pm
durangopipe wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:11 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:26 pm
I cant find that gif of Grandpa Simpson coming into the whore house, hanging his hat, seeing Bart and then casually grabbing his hat and walking back out.

Would you mind taking it as read that that gif encapsulates my feelings towards this thread and the direction it has taken?

Thank you. This has been a recording.
This is the first time I realized that was a brothel.
I always wondered what Bart was doing.
Ditto.
Jeeez, don't have a cow, man!
As a juvenile pimping won't go on his adult record anyway.

¡ Ay, caramba!