Two types of demons

For those deep thinkers out there.
User avatar
Nature of a Man
Usher
Usher
Posts: 468
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:14 am

Two types of demons

Post by Nature of a Man » Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:10 am

This was a theory I had about demons, and what I believe to be the two major "types" of demons.

I believe life can be likened to a sport, or maybe to a dance (or maybe both at once). So the two types of demons people might have to confront in life would be "fighting demons" or "dancing demons".

This is because "fighting" is the opposite of sports, or what sports and sportsmanship degenerate into when there are no rules or boundaries, beyond the "law of the jungle" - these demons represent violence, bullying, abuse, arguments, family dysfunction, arrogance, sloth, lawbreaking, racism, political conflicts, terrorism, genocide, hatred, greed, theft, murder, power-hungriness, rioting, anarchy, tyranny, and whatnot.

While sexual deviance, adultery, fornication, lust, unplanned children, abortion, narcissism, hedonism, gluttony, pornography, sodomy, rape, child molestation, and whatnot are the opposite of graceful and beautiful "dancing", and is what dancing degenerates into when there are no rules or boundaries, beyond the law of the jungle - these demons therefore represent sexual sins, or of the flesh, and the consequences which arise from them.

I believe that most demons and their challenges which a person may confront in life (whether the relatively minor, or the more extreme), including their personal demons, or those in others, would likely fall into one of these two categories, though I can't prove it.

User avatar
John-Boy
I'm a lover and I'm a sinner
I'm a lover and I'm a sinner
Posts: 33264
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2003 6:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Two types of demons

Post by John-Boy » Sun Nov 18, 2018 8:57 am

Nature of a Man wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:10 am
This is because "fighting" is the opposite of sports, or what sports and sportsmanship degenerate into when there are no rules or boundaries, beyond the "law of the jungle"...
Counter point: Marquess of Queensberry Rules
Praying - coco
Sometimes memes can be helpful as well as humorous - Jocose
Yer mom is kindhearted and well respected in her community - JMG
And when I am sitting on my new saddle, I will know that my weight is resting upon the collective minds of CPS - GaryinVa

User avatar
Cleon
The Mad Hatter
The Mad Hatter
Posts: 15019
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:00 pm
Location: Indiana - South of 40
Contact:

Re: Two types of demons

Post by Cleon » Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:18 pm

Nature of a Man wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:10 am
This was a theory I had about demons, and what I believe to be the two major "types" of demons.

I believe life can be likened to a sport, or maybe to a dance (or maybe both at once). So the two types of demons people might have to confront in life would be "fighting demons" or "dancing demons".

This is because "fighting" is the opposite of sports, or what sports and sportsmanship degenerate into when there are no rules or boundaries, beyond the "law of the jungle" - these demons represent violence, bullying, abuse, arguments, family dysfunction, arrogance, sloth, lawbreaking, racism, political conflicts, terrorism, genocide, hatred, greed, theft, murder, power-hungriness, rioting, anarchy, tyranny, and whatnot.

While sexual deviance, adultery, fornication, lust, unplanned children, abortion, narcissism, hedonism, gluttony, pornography, sodomy, rape, child molestation, and whatnot are the opposite of graceful and beautiful "dancing", and is what dancing degenerates into when there are no rules or boundaries, beyond the law of the jungle - these demons therefore represent sexual sins, or of the flesh, and the consequences which arise from them.

I believe that most demons and their challenges which a person may confront in life (whether the relatively minor, or the more extreme), including their personal demons, or those in others, would likely fall into one of these two categories, though I can't prove it.
Do you believe that demons are supernatural evil beings?
"Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven" - Jesus

"More people need to put their big boy britches on." - JMG

"Dang, a pipe slap." - JimVH

User avatar
Nature of a Man
Usher
Usher
Posts: 468
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:14 am

Re: Two types of demons

Post by Nature of a Man » Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:10 pm

Cleon wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:18 pm
Nature of a Man wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:10 am
This was a theory I had about demons, and what I believe to be the two major "types" of demons.

I believe life can be likened to a sport, or maybe to a dance (or maybe both at once). So the two types of demons people might have to confront in life would be "fighting demons" or "dancing demons".

This is because "fighting" is the opposite of sports, or what sports and sportsmanship degenerate into when there are no rules or boundaries, beyond the "law of the jungle" - these demons represent violence, bullying, abuse, arguments, family dysfunction, arrogance, sloth, lawbreaking, racism, political conflicts, terrorism, genocide, hatred, greed, theft, murder, power-hungriness, rioting, anarchy, tyranny, and whatnot.

While sexual deviance, adultery, fornication, lust, unplanned children, abortion, narcissism, hedonism, gluttony, pornography, sodomy, rape, child molestation, and whatnot are the opposite of graceful and beautiful "dancing", and is what dancing degenerates into when there are no rules or boundaries, beyond the law of the jungle - these demons therefore represent sexual sins, or of the flesh, and the consequences which arise from them.

I believe that most demons and their challenges which a person may confront in life (whether the relatively minor, or the more extreme), including their personal demons, or those in others, would likely fall into one of these two categories, though I can't prove it.
Do you believe that demons are supernatural evil beings?
I think it's hard to define them - my view based on my limited understanding is that demons could manifest or be manifest in the form of beings, as well as in every sins, temptations, or nightmares - and that symptoms of some modern mental disorders have correlates with effects traditionally associated with demons or demonic possession.

I'd call them "supra-ordinary" phenomenon, even though I don't believe they exist completely separate from nature or the known physical universe; I believe they're interrelated with it. I also think that some evil individuals with "prodigious" abilities are sometimes associated with demons, or demonic possession - such as Hitler, who was considered "gifted" and highly intelligent and charismatic in spite of being malevolent - perhaps implying his "gifts" came from the devil rather than from God.
Last edited by Nature of a Man on Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Hovannes
Minister of Unanswered Threads
Minister of Unanswered Threads
Posts: 24340
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:00 pm
Location: In the fertile San Joaquin Valley

Re: Two types of demons

Post by Hovannes » Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:21 pm

I met a demon once.
Don't go there.
Really.
"What doesn't kill you, gives you a lot of unhealthy coping mechanisms and a really dark sense of humor."

User avatar
Nature of a Man
Usher
Usher
Posts: 468
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:14 am

Re: Two types of demons

Post by Nature of a Man » Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:25 pm

Hovannes wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:21 pm
I met a demon once.
Don't go there.
Really.
I won't go there, though I have encountered individuals who seemed to be suffering from "out of ordinary" experiences which I've heard were traditionally associated with demons, or with some modern mental disorders as well. Beyond that, I won't comment.

User avatar
Hovannes
Minister of Unanswered Threads
Minister of Unanswered Threads
Posts: 24340
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:00 pm
Location: In the fertile San Joaquin Valley

Re: Two types of demons

Post by Hovannes » Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:31 pm

Not a demonic possession, but a singular demon.
Not sure which would be worse.
Or maybe I just over reacted to the critter as I had the upper hand.
"What doesn't kill you, gives you a lot of unhealthy coping mechanisms and a really dark sense of humor."

User avatar
Nature of a Man
Usher
Usher
Posts: 468
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:14 am

Re: Two types of demons

Post by Nature of a Man » Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:07 pm

Hovannes wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:31 pm
Not a demonic possession, but a singular demon.
Not sure which would be worse.
Or maybe I just over reacted to the critter as I had the upper hand.
For what it's worth, one individual I encountered (who I believe may have turned out to be a certain dangerous individual in the media) was exhibiting symptoms of mental illness, such as developing split personalities with various male and female alter-egos, with different names, ages, and biographies - and ranting about various political and spiritual subjects in a hostile manner which seemed very disturbing.

After I believe I learned who they were later in life, without realizing it at the time - I felt very sad, since they actually seemed to be a fairly intelligent individual with a gift for technology, but apparently had some disturbing out of ordinary experience which turned them into a monster.

User avatar
Sir Moose
President Jar-Jar Binks fan club: "Meesa tink he da best!" - Perpetually in Trouble
President Jar-Jar Binks fan club: "Meesa tink he da best!" - Perpetually in Trouble
Posts: 3490
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:17 am
Location: NW Washington (not Canada)
Contact:

Re: Two types of demons

Post by Sir Moose » Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:06 am

Nature of a Man wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:10 am
This was a theory I had about demons, and what I believe to be the two major "types" of demons.

I believe life can be likened to a sport, or maybe to a dance (or maybe both at once). So the two types of demons people might have to confront in life would be "fighting demons" or "dancing demons".

This is because "fighting" is the opposite of sports, or what sports and sportsmanship degenerate into when there are no rules or boundaries, beyond the "law of the jungle" - these demons represent violence, bullying, abuse, arguments, family dysfunction, arrogance, sloth, lawbreaking, racism, political conflicts, terrorism, genocide, hatred, greed, theft, murder, power-hungriness, rioting, anarchy, tyranny, and whatnot.

While sexual deviance, adultery, fornication, lust, unplanned children, abortion, narcissism, hedonism, gluttony, pornography, sodomy, rape, child molestation, and whatnot are the opposite of graceful and beautiful "dancing", and is what dancing degenerates into when there are no rules or boundaries, beyond the law of the jungle - these demons therefore represent sexual sins, or of the flesh, and the consequences which arise from them.

I believe that most demons and their challenges which a person may confront in life (whether the relatively minor, or the more extreme), including their personal demons, or those in others, would likely fall into one of these two categories, though I can't prove it.
It's a mistake to attribute our sins to demons. Jesus clearly stated that "For from within, out of people’s hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immoralities, thefts, murders, adulteries, greed, evil actions, deceit, self-indulgence, envy, slander, pride, and foolishness. All these evil things come from within and defile a person." (Mark 7:21-23, CSB) Despite the popular notions of the day, there is no scriptural support for demons causing us to sin and to blame demons is a way to absolve us of responsibility for our sins. Furthermore, there is no scriptural support for demons having particular sins that they focus on and try to influence us to commit.
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.

User avatar
Nature of a Man
Usher
Usher
Posts: 468
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:14 am

Re: Two types of demons

Post by Nature of a Man » Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:32 am

Sir Moose wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:06 am
Nature of a Man wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:10 am
This was a theory I had about demons, and what I believe to be the two major "types" of demons.

I believe life can be likened to a sport, or maybe to a dance (or maybe both at once). So the two types of demons people might have to confront in life would be "fighting demons" or "dancing demons".

This is because "fighting" is the opposite of sports, or what sports and sportsmanship degenerate into when there are no rules or boundaries, beyond the "law of the jungle" - these demons represent violence, bullying, abuse, arguments, family dysfunction, arrogance, sloth, lawbreaking, racism, political conflicts, terrorism, genocide, hatred, greed, theft, murder, power-hungriness, rioting, anarchy, tyranny, and whatnot.

While sexual deviance, adultery, fornication, lust, unplanned children, abortion, narcissism, hedonism, gluttony, pornography, sodomy, rape, child molestation, and whatnot are the opposite of graceful and beautiful "dancing", and is what dancing degenerates into when there are no rules or boundaries, beyond the law of the jungle - these demons therefore represent sexual sins, or of the flesh, and the consequences which arise from them.

I believe that most demons and their challenges which a person may confront in life (whether the relatively minor, or the more extreme), including their personal demons, or those in others, would likely fall into one of these two categories, though I can't prove it.
It's a mistake to attribute our sins to demons. Jesus clearly stated that "For from within, out of people’s hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immoralities, thefts, murders, adulteries, greed, evil actions, deceit, self-indulgence, envy, slander, pride, and foolishness. All these evil things come from within and defile a person." (Mark 7:21-23, CSB) Despite the popular notions of the day, there is no scriptural support for demons causing us to sin and to blame demons is a way to absolve us of responsibility for our sins. Furthermore, there is no scriptural support for demons having particular sins that they focus on and try to influence us to commit.
I agree, I definitely draw a distinction between sins or wicked behavior as a whole, and demons, and don't believe that any and all sins are automatically the result of demonic influence. Though I'm aware of a concept of "personal or ancestral demons", which hints at vices or sins inherited from our ancestors or human nature as a whole.

I find the various concepts of demons incoherent and difficult to piece together, but I was interested in finding a more coherent theory of demons since it seems like a misunderstood subject in modern times, and often not taken seriously, likely due to many of the stereotypical pop cultural caricatures of devils, demons, and the like.

My theory thus far is that not everyone who sins or is wicked is necessarily influenced or possessed by demons, but that some wicked individuals who possess some type "prodigious" gift or ability, such as intelligence, or charisma may have been influenced by demons. (I think that people influenced by demons might be an evil counterpart to "prodigies", or benign individuals such as Einstein who possessed some extraordinary talent).

User avatar
Jocose
a large Chinese man named Wu
a large Chinese man named Wu
Posts: 21395
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Moonbase Alpha
Contact:

Re: Two types of demons

Post by Jocose » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:13 am

"Do not take for granted the powers out there.. don't step into the demons lair...."

<sorry, could not resist>

Carry on
"And for Freds sake, DO NOT point anyone towards CPS or you'll put them off of both Christianity and pipe smoking forever." ~ FredS

"Death Wish and its progeny are some of the greatest films of the 1970s. If one disagrees with this, he is a foolish man with no taste." ~ TNLP

Image

User avatar
Jocose
a large Chinese man named Wu
a large Chinese man named Wu
Posts: 21395
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Moonbase Alpha
Contact:

Re: Two types of demons

Post by Jocose » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:16 am

"And for Freds sake, DO NOT point anyone towards CPS or you'll put them off of both Christianity and pipe smoking forever." ~ FredS

"Death Wish and its progeny are some of the greatest films of the 1970s. If one disagrees with this, he is a foolish man with no taste." ~ TNLP

Image

User avatar
Del
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Posts: 38115
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: Two types of demons

Post by Del » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:17 am

Nature of a Man wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:32 am
Sir Moose wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:06 am
Nature of a Man wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:10 am
This was a theory I had about demons, and what I believe to be the two major "types" of demons.

I believe life can be likened to a sport, or maybe to a dance (or maybe both at once). So the two types of demons people might have to confront in life would be "fighting demons" or "dancing demons".

This is because "fighting" is the opposite of sports, or what sports and sportsmanship degenerate into when there are no rules or boundaries, beyond the "law of the jungle" - these demons represent violence, bullying, abuse, arguments, family dysfunction, arrogance, sloth, lawbreaking, racism, political conflicts, terrorism, genocide, hatred, greed, theft, murder, power-hungriness, rioting, anarchy, tyranny, and whatnot.

While sexual deviance, adultery, fornication, lust, unplanned children, abortion, narcissism, hedonism, gluttony, pornography, sodomy, rape, child molestation, and whatnot are the opposite of graceful and beautiful "dancing", and is what dancing degenerates into when there are no rules or boundaries, beyond the law of the jungle - these demons therefore represent sexual sins, or of the flesh, and the consequences which arise from them.

I believe that most demons and their challenges which a person may confront in life (whether the relatively minor, or the more extreme), including their personal demons, or those in others, would likely fall into one of these two categories, though I can't prove it.
It's a mistake to attribute our sins to demons. Jesus clearly stated that "For from within, out of people’s hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immoralities, thefts, murders, adulteries, greed, evil actions, deceit, self-indulgence, envy, slander, pride, and foolishness. All these evil things come from within and defile a person." (Mark 7:21-23, CSB) Despite the popular notions of the day, there is no scriptural support for demons causing us to sin and to blame demons is a way to absolve us of responsibility for our sins. Furthermore, there is no scriptural support for demons having particular sins that they focus on and try to influence us to commit.
I agree, I definitely draw a distinction between sins or wicked behavior as a whole, and demons, and don't believe that any and all sins are automatically the result of demonic influence. Though I'm aware of a concept of "personal or ancestral demons", which hints at vices or sins inherited from our ancestors or human nature as a whole.

I find the various concepts of demons incoherent and difficult to piece together, but I was interested in finding a more coherent theory of demons since it seems like a misunderstood subject in modern times, and often not taken seriously, likely due to many of the stereotypical pop cultural caricatures of devils, demons, and the like.

My theory thus far is that not everyone who sins or is wicked is necessarily influenced or possessed by demons, but that some wicked individuals who possess some type "prodigious" gift or ability, such as intelligence, or charisma may have been influenced by demons. (I think that people influenced by demons might be an evil counterpart to "prodigies", or benign individuals such as Einstein who possessed some extraordinary talent).
In your OP, you are really talking about types of temptations, rather than types of demons.

St. Paul tells us that temptations come from "the world, the flesh, and the devil." It is a common poetic image to describe some vexing temptations as "demons" ("He fought the demon of the bottle all of his life"), often we aren't talking about actual demons.
============================================

St. John Vianney was oppressed by two types of demons.

One demon was stupid and violent. A poltergeist who disturbed his sleep and beat him up.

The other was smart. A malevolent whisperer. St. John Vianney was a parish priest.... and people made long pilgrimages to confess their sins to him. Many miracles of healing and conversion. So the demon whispered that he was becoming a celebrity and disrupting the work of Christ. The saint and the people would be better off if he slipped away to a quiet monastery and disappeared to a life of prayer.

These are like the two types of temptations in the OP.
- One distracts the body with carnal pleasures.
- The other distracts the mind with the pride of "higher pursuits," such as power and politics. This is where the virtue-signaling of woke SJW's comes from.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"I shall not wear a crown of gold where my Master wore a crown of thorns." - Godfrey de Bouillon

User avatar
FredS
The Trappists say shut it, still talking
The Trappists say shut it, still talking
Posts: 21849
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:00 pm
Location: NOCO (Northern Colorado)

Re: Two types of demons

Post by FredS » Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:52 am

Nature of a Man wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:32 am
Sir Moose wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:06 am
Nature of a Man wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:10 am
This was a theory I had about demons, and what I believe to be the two major "types" of demons.

I believe life can be likened to a sport, or maybe to a dance (or maybe both at once). So the two types of demons people might have to confront in life would be "fighting demons" or "dancing demons".

This is because "fighting" is the opposite of sports, or what sports and sportsmanship degenerate into when there are no rules or boundaries, beyond the "law of the jungle" - these demons represent violence, bullying, abuse, arguments, family dysfunction, arrogance, sloth, lawbreaking, racism, political conflicts, terrorism, genocide, hatred, greed, theft, murder, power-hungriness, rioting, anarchy, tyranny, and whatnot.

While sexual deviance, adultery, fornication, lust, unplanned children, abortion, narcissism, hedonism, gluttony, pornography, sodomy, rape, child molestation, and whatnot are the opposite of graceful and beautiful "dancing", and is what dancing degenerates into when there are no rules or boundaries, beyond the law of the jungle - these demons therefore represent sexual sins, or of the flesh, and the consequences which arise from them.

I believe that most demons and their challenges which a person may confront in life (whether the relatively minor, or the more extreme), including their personal demons, or those in others, would likely fall into one of these two categories, though I can't prove it.
It's a mistake to attribute our sins to demons. Jesus clearly stated that "For from within, out of people’s hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immoralities, thefts, murders, adulteries, greed, evil actions, deceit, self-indulgence, envy, slander, pride, and foolishness. All these evil things come from within and defile a person." (Mark 7:21-23, CSB) Despite the popular notions of the day, there is no scriptural support for demons causing us to sin and to blame demons is a way to absolve us of responsibility for our sins. Furthermore, there is no scriptural support for demons having particular sins that they focus on and try to influence us to commit.
I agree, I definitely draw a distinction between sins or wicked behavior as a whole, and demons, and don't believe that any and all sins are automatically the result of demonic influence. Though I'm aware of a concept of "personal or ancestral demons", which hints at vices or sins inherited from our ancestors or human nature as a whole.

I find the various concepts of demons incoherent and difficult to piece together, but I was interested in finding a more coherent theory of demons since it seems like a misunderstood subject in modern times, and often not taken seriously, likely due to many of the stereotypical pop cultural caricatures of devils, demons, and the like.

My theory thus far is that not everyone who sins or is wicked is necessarily influenced or possessed by demons, but that some wicked individuals who possess some type "prodigious" gift or ability, such as intelligence, or charisma may have been influenced by demons. (I think that people influenced by demons might be an evil counterpart to "prodigies", or benign individuals such as Einstein who possessed some extraordinary talent).
Au contraire, Pierre. You most definitely wrote that demons can cause behaviors and even become behaviors.

"I think it's hard to define them - my view based on my limited understanding is that demons could manifest or be manifest in the form of beings, as well as in every sins, temptations, or nightmares - and that symptoms of some modern mental disorders have correlates with effects traditionally associated with demons or demonic possession. "

You're correct that it can be difficult to define. So maybe we shouldn't try until we have a better grasp on the subject. I understand that this is a great place to have that discussion and try to wrap our minds around difficult subjects, but words matter and I think you do a particularly bad job in choosing what you write about demons, atheists, sin, and a whole host of other things. Either that, or you have a particularly narrow mind and like to paint anyone who's not like you with a particularly broad brush.
"If we ever get to heaven boys, it aint because we aint done nothin' wrong" - Kris Kristofferson

"One of the things I love about CPS is the frank and enthusiastic dysfunction here. God help me, I do love it so." – OldWorldSwine

"I'd like to put a hook in that puppet and swing it through a bunch of salmon!" - durangopipe

User avatar
Nature of a Man
Usher
Usher
Posts: 468
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:14 am

Re: Two types of demons

Post by Nature of a Man » Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:56 pm

FredS wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:52 am
Nature of a Man wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:32 am
Sir Moose wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:06 am
Nature of a Man wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:10 am
This was a theory I had about demons, and what I believe to be the two major "types" of demons.

I believe life can be likened to a sport, or maybe to a dance (or maybe both at once). So the two types of demons people might have to confront in life would be "fighting demons" or "dancing demons".

This is because "fighting" is the opposite of sports, or what sports and sportsmanship degenerate into when there are no rules or boundaries, beyond the "law of the jungle" - these demons represent violence, bullying, abuse, arguments, family dysfunction, arrogance, sloth, lawbreaking, racism, political conflicts, terrorism, genocide, hatred, greed, theft, murder, power-hungriness, rioting, anarchy, tyranny, and whatnot.

While sexual deviance, adultery, fornication, lust, unplanned children, abortion, narcissism, hedonism, gluttony, pornography, sodomy, rape, child molestation, and whatnot are the opposite of graceful and beautiful "dancing", and is what dancing degenerates into when there are no rules or boundaries, beyond the law of the jungle - these demons therefore represent sexual sins, or of the flesh, and the consequences which arise from them.

I believe that most demons and their challenges which a person may confront in life (whether the relatively minor, or the more extreme), including their personal demons, or those in others, would likely fall into one of these two categories, though I can't prove it.
It's a mistake to attribute our sins to demons. Jesus clearly stated that "For from within, out of people’s hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immoralities, thefts, murders, adulteries, greed, evil actions, deceit, self-indulgence, envy, slander, pride, and foolishness. All these evil things come from within and defile a person." (Mark 7:21-23, CSB) Despite the popular notions of the day, there is no scriptural support for demons causing us to sin and to blame demons is a way to absolve us of responsibility for our sins. Furthermore, there is no scriptural support for demons having particular sins that they focus on and try to influence us to commit.
I agree, I definitely draw a distinction between sins or wicked behavior as a whole, and demons, and don't believe that any and all sins are automatically the result of demonic influence. Though I'm aware of a concept of "personal or ancestral demons", which hints at vices or sins inherited from our ancestors or human nature as a whole.

I find the various concepts of demons incoherent and difficult to piece together, but I was interested in finding a more coherent theory of demons since it seems like a misunderstood subject in modern times, and often not taken seriously, likely due to many of the stereotypical pop cultural caricatures of devils, demons, and the like.

My theory thus far is that not everyone who sins or is wicked is necessarily influenced or possessed by demons, but that some wicked individuals who possess some type "prodigious" gift or ability, such as intelligence, or charisma may have been influenced by demons. (I think that people influenced by demons might be an evil counterpart to "prodigies", or benign individuals such as Einstein who possessed some extraordinary talent).
Au contraire, Pierre. You most definitely wrote that demons can cause behaviors and even become behaviors.
Well, maybe more appropriately is that I believe the Devil is the origin of sinful behaviors in mankind, but obviously this doesn't absolve people of their sins if they choose to listen to the Devil rather than God, much as Adam and Eve weren't absolved merely by putting blame on the other, or on the serpent

As far as the role that specific demons or types of demons play in specific sins or types of sins, that's a different story.
"I think it's hard to define them - my view based on my limited understanding is that demons could manifest or be manifest in the form of beings, as well as in every sins, temptations, or nightmares - and that symptoms of some modern mental disorders have correlates with effects traditionally associated with demons or demonic possession. "

You're correct that it can be difficult to define. So maybe we shouldn't try until we have a better grasp on the subject. I understand that this is a great place to have that discussion and try to wrap our minds around difficult subjects, but words matter and I think you do a particularly bad job in choosing what you write about demons, atheists, sin, and a whole host of other things. Either that, or you have a particularly narrow mind and like to paint anyone who's not like you with a particularly broad brush.
Well again, my argument wasn't that all atheists are necessarily nihilists in practice, or that all sinners are necessarily "possessed by demons".

My argument regarding atheists is just that nihilism is the logical conclusion of atheism, and that some atheist authors such as Stirner, Sade, etc more or less affirmed this themselves.

I also attempt to draw a fine distinction between people merely sinning or being tempted to sin, or even many wicked individuals, and someone who is directly under the influence or possession of a demon - I think that even many shockingly wicked individuals or mentally ill, such as some serial killers or cult leaders who a layperson might describe as "demonic" weren't necessarily possessed directly by demons, or a "demon in the flesh", and that from what little I know of it, it's a very idiosyncratic phenomenon that's hard to compare to anything else. (I spent some time on true crime for example, and among the various notorious individuals such as serial killers like Bundy, Dahmer, Gacy, etc - there's only one recent figure I know of who most people haven't heard of who I thought might be a "demon in the flesh", and the others, while very wicked or disturbed individuals, I don't think would qualify as such).

I think it's a concept that's been dumbed down and bastardized by popular culture, or laypeople erroneously describing people, such as many of the violent individuals we hear about on mass media today as "demons, evil incarnate, monsters, and whatnot", so I was interested in finding a more consistent and intellectual approach to it.

User avatar
FredS
The Trappists say shut it, still talking
The Trappists say shut it, still talking
Posts: 21849
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:00 pm
Location: NOCO (Northern Colorado)

Re: Two types of demons

Post by FredS » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:52 pm

Nature of a Man wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:56 pm
I think it's a concept that's been dumbed down and bastardized by popular culture, or laypeople erroneously describing people, such as many of the violent individuals we hear about on mass media today as "demons, evil incarnate, monsters, and whatnot", so I was interested in finding a more consistent and intellectual approach to it.
I think the opposite. The more we understand about our physiological wiring and about mental illness, the less apt we are to ascribe many behaviors to demonic influence or even the sinful nature of man to be weak in the face of temptation. I don't mean to suggest that we're 'smart enough' to explain it all away as genetic coding or mis-coding, but we certainly know better than to ascribe autism or asperger's or alheizemer's or warts or most any other illness (I hesitate to use that term in reference to autism) of mind or body to demonic possession.
"If we ever get to heaven boys, it aint because we aint done nothin' wrong" - Kris Kristofferson

"One of the things I love about CPS is the frank and enthusiastic dysfunction here. God help me, I do love it so." – OldWorldSwine

"I'd like to put a hook in that puppet and swing it through a bunch of salmon!" - durangopipe

User avatar
Nature of a Man
Usher
Usher
Posts: 468
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:14 am

Re: Two types of demons

Post by Nature of a Man » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:48 pm

FredS wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:52 pm
Nature of a Man wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:56 pm
I think it's a concept that's been dumbed down and bastardized by popular culture, or laypeople erroneously describing people, such as many of the violent individuals we hear about on mass media today as "demons, evil incarnate, monsters, and whatnot", so I was interested in finding a more consistent and intellectual approach to it.
I think the opposite. The more we understand about our physiological wiring and about mental illness, the less apt we are to ascribe many behaviors to demonic influence or even the sinful nature of man to be weak in the face of temptation. I don't mean to suggest that we're 'smart enough' to explain it all away as genetic coding or mis-coding, but we certainly know better than to ascribe autism or asperger's or alheizemer's or warts or most any other illness (I hesitate to use that term in reference to autism) of mind or body to demonic possession.
True, I was talking about specific types of mental illness which include symptoms which have been traditionally ascribed to demons, such as ones involving personality changes, or perhaps certain types of delusions or psychosis (e.x. my understanding is that some individuals suffering from psychosis, or who abused types of hallucinogenic or dissociative drugs such as PCP or "angel dust" may have exhibited delusional or grandiose beliefs or fantasies - such as believing themselves to be God or a god incarnate, hearing certain types of voices, "speaking in tongues", or committing violent acts against others they believed to be "demons" themselves - some of these symptoms have similarities to behaviors traditionally ascribed to demonic influence or possession).

Definitely not any and all mental illness or disability would be fair to ascribe to the demon phenomina, and they aren't solely the result of genetic coding in all cases, but may have been induced by abusing mind-altering drugs or substances, such as in some of the cases I was attempting to describe above.

User avatar
Fainn
Master's of fArts
Master's of fArts
Posts: 4032
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:48 pm

Re: Two types of demons

Post by Fainn » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:53 pm

Hovannes wrote:Not a demonic possession, but a singular demon.
Not sure which would be worse.
Or maybe I just over reacted to the critter as I had the upper hand.
You must tell this story some day.

Sent from my SM-J337A using Tapatalk

It takes a smart eye feller to say, "I feller smart".

User avatar
Hovannes
Minister of Unanswered Threads
Minister of Unanswered Threads
Posts: 24340
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:00 pm
Location: In the fertile San Joaquin Valley

Re: Two types of demons

Post by Hovannes » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:25 pm

Fainn wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:53 pm
Hovannes wrote:Not a demonic possession, but a singular demon.
Not sure which would be worse.
Or maybe I just over reacted to the critter as I had the upper hand.
You must tell this story some day.

Sent from my SM-J337A using Tapatalk
I don't think demons are visible unless there is a definite reason why someone would be permitted to see one.
Perhaps because of my own flagging faith that the opportunity was granted to me (I sure didn't ask for it)
I'd been a minister of Holy Communion at a hospital for five years.
Shortly after 10:00 AM I was visiting a lady in bed "B" (next to the window.) Bed "A" (next to the door) had the privacy curtain drawn.
As I elevated the host there was a blood curdling scream from Bed "A"
Not unusual in hospitals but in this case no one else apparently heard it.
Bed "B" didn't hear it. None of the nurses came in. No feet visible under the privacy curtain,
The poor woman could have been in some life threatening situation so I turned and drew back the curtain, the host still in my hand.
Cowering at the head of the bed was the creature, looking like a large raccoon sized flying monkey.
I drew the curtain, turned and gave Communion to Bed "B" and got the hell out of there.
"What doesn't kill you, gives you a lot of unhealthy coping mechanisms and a really dark sense of humor."

User avatar
Thunktank
Terminal Lance. Perpetual Sea Lawyer. Unicorn Aficionado
Terminal Lance.  Perpetual Sea Lawyer. Unicorn Aficionado
Posts: 22035
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Home Sweet California at the Beach!

Re: Two types of demons

Post by Thunktank » Tue Dec 18, 2018 1:03 am

Cowering at the head of the bed was the creature, looking like a large raccoon sized flying monkey.
The Wizzard of Oz watches The Saga of Hovaness.
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” -Yoda

“I grew up in a church with Ned Flanders. Down to the mustache. But so did a bunch of people I assume, which makes it so fun-diddly-unny.” -tuttle

Post Reply