Ethics of eating meat

For those deep thinkers out there.
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hugodrax
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Re: Ethics of eating meat

Post by hugodrax » Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:54 pm

FredS wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:41 pm
Can I eat one of the neighbors cats as long as I'm intentional about which one I kill and only do it, say, once every two months?
That would bring several new variables into the equation, right? Namely, the neighbor, his attitude to your eating his pets, and whether or not you are Korean.
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Re: Ethics of eating meat

Post by Nature of a Man » Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:09 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:37 pm
Nature of a Man wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:23 pm
FredS wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:13 pm
Nature of a Man wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:38 pm
As far as the discussion itself goes though, I'm not sure how the notion of an animal's soul would directly factor into discussions on eating of meat.
It doesn't. I didn't write that it does.

I was trying to understand what you meant when you wrote about 'indiscriminate killing'. I listed a few possibilities to see if any of them touched on your intention. "Indiscriminate" could be defined as 'random' or 'without careful thought' so I wondered if you meant 'killing without careful thought as to whether or not the animal has a soul'. I don't think they do, but there's something there that makes it emotionally more difficult to kill and eat the family dog than the beef cow.
I'm assuming in that you mean soul in dualist sense in which humans have souls, but not animals, but I'm not an expert on the philosophy behind it so I can't comment.

Indiscriminate would everything important into account, such as the raising and preparation methods, whether or not the animals are being killed or hunted in excess quantity, or killed solely for sport as opposed to food - whether or not the meat or animal products are consumed in healthy quantities, and so on.

In day to day life, a person would just have to use common sense to discern the difference, rather than be paranoid or hypochondriac about it.
So, just in the interest of trying to figure out where we're at vis-a-vis the consumption of meat: would it be fair to say you believe it is permitted but we shouldn't be jerks about it. Kill and eat but dont go crazy?
That sounds about right to me.
FredS wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:41 pm
Can I eat one of the neighbors cats as long as I'm intentional about which one I kill and only do it, say, once every two months?
Better question, why would you want to?

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Re: Ethics of eating meat

Post by Jocose » Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:14 pm

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Re: Ethics of eating meat

Post by Nature of a Man » Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:34 pm

Jocose wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:14 pm
Image
I don't think it's really that dichotomous, I've heard that in some species of animals, predators do actually kill solely for sport, or to assert their "alpha dominance" over others:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/chim ... y-1.925752

Chimpanzees violently kill other chimps to expand their own territory, according to a study in Uganda that provides the first evidence that such attacks are motivated by a desire for others' land.

Over the course of their 10-year study, U.S. researchers witnessed 18 killings and found signs of three others perpetrated by members of a community of about 150 chimps at Ngogo, Kibale National Park.

Then in the summer of 2009, the Ngogo chimpanzees began to use the area where two-thirds of these events occurred, expanding their territory by 22 per cent. They traveled, socialized and fed on their favourite fruits in the new region.

"Our observations indicate that chimpanzees at Ngogo have expanded their territory at the expense of a neighboring community. Territorial expansion followed a series of lethal … attacks that formed an especially large source of mortality," primate behavioural ecologist John Mitani, from the University of Michigan, and colleagues write in the journal Current Biology.

Chimpanzees (along with bonobos) are our closest living relatives. Anthropologists have long known that they kill their neighbours, and they suspected that they did so to seize their land, but the researchers say their study is the first to provide clear-cut evidence of this.


---

I suppose most would argue that animals don't have responsibility over their actions like humans do, but the notion of animals and nature being entirely "playful and innocent" except when corrupted by human activity is often over-romanticized by nature lovers and tree-huggers.

And I agree that humans' eating meat isn't solely for "greed" or excess, but real life concerns as well, (though modern consumerism has definitely pushed the envelope on that).

Which is why I don't take the trendy, "militant vegan" slogans seriously.
Last edited by Nature of a Man on Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Ethics of eating meat

Post by hugodrax » Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:36 pm

Nature of a Man wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:34 pm
Jocose wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:14 pm
Image
I don't think it's really that dichotomous, I've heard that in some species of animals, predators do actually kill solely for sport, or to assert their "alpha dominance" over others.

(I suppose most would argue that animals don't have responsibility over their actions like humans do, but the notion of animals and nature being entirely "playful and innocent" except when corrupted by human activity is often over-romanticized by nature lovers and tree-huggers).

And I agree that humans' eating meat isn't solely for "greed" or excess, but real life concerns as well, (though modern consumerism has definitely pushed the envelope on that).

Which is why I don't take the trendy, "militant vegan" slogans seriously.
You ever have a cat? They torture for fun. Seriously, though, you should have a cat.
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Re: Ethics of eating meat

Post by Nature of a Man » Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:41 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:36 pm
Nature of a Man wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:34 pm
Jocose wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:14 pm
Image
I don't think it's really that dichotomous, I've heard that in some species of animals, predators do actually kill solely for sport, or to assert their "alpha dominance" over others.

(I suppose most would argue that animals don't have responsibility over their actions like humans do, but the notion of animals and nature being entirely "playful and innocent" except when corrupted by human activity is often over-romanticized by nature lovers and tree-huggers).

And I agree that humans' eating meat isn't solely for "greed" or excess, but real life concerns as well, (though modern consumerism has definitely pushed the envelope on that).

Which is why I don't take the trendy, "militant vegan" slogans seriously.
You ever have a cat? They torture for fun. Seriously, though, you should have a cat.
A white Persian cat?

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Re: Ethics of eating meat

Post by John-Boy » Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:45 pm

One time I was in Detroit for work. I popped over to an evening Tigers game. I stopped at a concessions booth and saw sliders on the menu. Yum... sliders. Like White Castle? Sounds yummy. I'll take 3 and some fries. Turns out they were sliders in the sense of the flat patty burgers (real sliders) not in the sense of mini-burgers (not really sliders). So I had a sack of 3 burgers. I decided it was unethical to eat all 3 and gave the 2 extra to young guys sitting in front of me. I don't think they have any ethical qualms about eating them.
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Re: Ethics of eating meat

Post by coco » Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:57 pm

Nature of a Man wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:41 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:36 pm
Nature of a Man wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:34 pm
Jocose wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:14 pm
Image
I don't think it's really that dichotomous, I've heard that in some species of animals, predators do actually kill solely for sport, or to assert their "alpha dominance" over others.

(I suppose most would argue that animals don't have responsibility over their actions like humans do, but the notion of animals and nature being entirely "playful and innocent" except when corrupted by human activity is often over-romanticized by nature lovers and tree-huggers).

And I agree that humans' eating meat isn't solely for "greed" or excess, but real life concerns as well, (though modern consumerism has definitely pushed the envelope on that).

Which is why I don't take the trendy, "militant vegan" slogans seriously.
You ever have a cat? They torture for fun. Seriously, though, you should have a cat.
A white Persian cat?
No one needs a cat. FredS will back me up on this.
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Re: Ethics of eating meat

Post by CodeMonkey » Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:37 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9SI-7XUYvY
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Re: Ethics of eating meat

Post by JimVH » Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:47 pm

I often ponder the passage in Luke about killing the fatted quinoa.

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Re: Ethics of eating meat

Post by John-Boy » Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:12 pm

Remember, when you order a burger at 5 Guys, if you order a "regular" you'll get 2 patties. You have to order a "junior" for a single patty. Ethics.
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Re: Ethics of eating meat

Post by Jocose » Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:45 pm

John-Boy wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:12 pm
Remember, when you order a burger at 5 Guys, if you order a "regular" you'll get 2 patties. You have to order a "junior" for a single patty. Ethics.
Semantics?
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Re: Ethics of eating meat

Post by John-Boy » Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:11 am

Jocose wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:45 pm
John-Boy wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:12 pm
Remember, when you order a burger at 5 Guys, if you order a "regular" you'll get 2 patties. You have to order a "junior" for a single patty. Ethics.
Semantics?
You know, I think I got that wrong. The single patty burger is the “little” not “junior”.
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Re: Ethics of eating meat

Post by FredS » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:17 am

coco wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 7:57 pm
Nature of a Man wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:41 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:36 pm
Nature of a Man wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:34 pm
Jocose wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:14 pm
Image
I don't think it's really that dichotomous, I've heard that in some species of animals, predators do actually kill solely for sport, or to assert their "alpha dominance" over others.

(I suppose most would argue that animals don't have responsibility over their actions like humans do, but the notion of animals and nature being entirely "playful and innocent" except when corrupted by human activity is often over-romanticized by nature lovers and tree-huggers).

And I agree that humans' eating meat isn't solely for "greed" or excess, but real life concerns as well, (though modern consumerism has definitely pushed the envelope on that).

Which is why I don't take the trendy, "militant vegan" slogans seriously.
You ever have a cat? They torture for fun. Seriously, though, you should have a cat.
A white Persian cat?
No one needs a cat. FredS will back me up on this.
Cat's are fine. With some fava beans and a nice chianti. Free range, of course.

In other news: We had a tom cat when I was a boy that did indeed torture for fun. He'd catch crickets and gently hold them in his front paws while he tore one or both hind legs off. Then he'd bat them around and flip them up in the air as they flopped around a few minutes before dying.
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Re: Ethics of eating meat

Post by John-Boy » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:26 am

If you know your dog is eating the turds out of the kitty litter, is it unethical to ignore the issue?
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Re: Ethics of eating meat

Post by Jester » Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:40 am

John-Boy wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:26 am
If you know your dog is eating the turds out of the kitty litter, is it unethical to ignore the issue?
It depends. If it annoys the cat, I am all for it. If the cat is laughing under his breath then kick the cat.
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Re: Ethics of eating meat

Post by John-Boy » Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:41 am

Jester wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:40 am
John-Boy wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:26 am
If you know your dog is eating the turds out of the kitty litter, is it unethical to ignore the issue?
It depends. If it annoys the cat, I am all for it. If the cat is laughing under his breath then kick the cat.
I'm fairly certain the cat doesn't care.
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Re: Ethics of eating meat

Post by JimVH » Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:42 am

John-Boy wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:41 am
Jester wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:40 am
John-Boy wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:26 am
If you know your dog is eating the turds out of the kitty litter, is it unethical to ignore the issue?
It depends. If it annoys the cat, I am all for it. If the cat is laughing under his breath then kick the cat.
I'm fairly certain the cat doesn't care.
Would you really want to eat a cat that's been turd-fed?

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Re: Ethics of eating meat

Post by Jester » Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:43 am

John-Boy wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:41 am
Jester wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:40 am
John-Boy wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:26 am
If you know your dog is eating the turds out of the kitty litter, is it unethical to ignore the issue?
It depends. If it annoys the cat, I am all for it. If the cat is laughing under his breath then kick the cat.
I'm fairly certain the cat doesn't care.
That's ok, every option leads to kicking the cat anyway.
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Re: Ethics of eating meat

Post by John-Boy » Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:49 am

JimVH wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:42 am
John-Boy wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:41 am
Jester wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:40 am
John-Boy wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:26 am
If you know your dog is eating the turds out of the kitty litter, is it unethical to ignore the issue?
It depends. If it annoys the cat, I am all for it. If the cat is laughing under his breath then kick the cat.
I'm fairly certain the cat doesn't care.
Would you really want to eat a cat that's been turd-fed?
No, it's the dog that's turd fed. The cat gets Fancy Feast.
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