Charismatic spirituality

For those deep thinkers out there.
User avatar
hugodrax
Wowbagger The Infinitely Prolonged
Wowbagger The Infinitely Prolonged
Posts: 18449
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:00 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: Charismatic spirituality

Post by hugodrax » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:02 pm

Roadmaster wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:55 pm
FredS wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:06 am
Roadmaster wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:13 am
Just my 2 cents, the charismatic form of worship makes me uncomfortable but calling them that practice this form derogatory names makes me just as uncomfortable.
Your lack of righteous indignation and hesitation to harshly judge people who are different makes me uncomfortable. :chili:
Anything for you Fred, I'll work on improving my righteous indigestion and haphazard judgment just to make you more conformable.
Righteous indigestion is a wonderful way of describing most internet disagreements.
Notre Dame de Paris, priez pour nous y comprise les Jesuites.

User avatar
Roadmaster
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 13474
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:00 pm
Location: Missouri The Show-me State

Re: Charismatic spirituality

Post by Roadmaster » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:08 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:02 pm
Roadmaster wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:55 pm
FredS wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:06 am
Roadmaster wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:13 am
Just my 2 cents, the charismatic form of worship makes me uncomfortable but calling them that practice this form derogatory names makes me just as uncomfortable.
Your lack of righteous indignation and hesitation to harshly judge people who are different makes me uncomfortable. :chili:
Anything for you Fred, I'll work on improving my righteous indigestion and haphazard judgment just to make you more conformable.
Righteous indigestion is a wonderful way of describing most internet disagreements.
In honor of Earl of Earl and Edna fame.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9xzuerShYo
I just love that old car smell™

User avatar
Roadmaster
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 13474
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:00 pm
Location: Missouri The Show-me State

Re: Charismatic spirituality

Post by Roadmaster » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:18 pm

Here is Earl in action again, the video quality is poor but it's the best could find.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suc-1gSLYdk
I just love that old car smell™

User avatar
Fainn
Master's of fArts
Master's of fArts
Posts: 4322
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:48 pm
Location: Unleashing a deadly fart cloud on some unsuspecting soul

Re: Charismatic spirituality

Post by Fainn » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:40 pm

Although I have never spoken in tongues myself, I am a cessationist, believing the gifts to have ceased when the Scripture was canonized. I base this on my own experience having been given false prophecies by both Messianic and nonMessianic charismatics. Charismatics are also usually highly legalistic and believe that sin, including smoking, is the result of something demonic. Generally so-called gifts are the imaginations of their minds. If gifts still continued today, why don 't we see actual healings or warnings of tragic events. I refuse to raise my child in such an environment where most of the preachers are con artists.

Sent from my SM-J337A using Tapatalk

Why does Hugodrax want to suppress the Jesuits?

User avatar
Ether
Usher
Usher
Posts: 322
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:32 am

Re: Charismatic spirituality

Post by Ether » Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:56 am

I am not in any way eager to convert anybody to a special form of spirituality. Most people would consider me as rather traditional novus-ordo catholic, but I have no fear of showing up neither in a Tridentine Mass nor in a more charismatic prayer group. The more aspects of Christianity you've seen, the more wackadoodles you have encountered in general, as the church is obviously rather a hospital for the wounded than a society of perfect people. But I have also encountered credible and authentic believers everywhere my journey went. If your heart in prayer focuses on Jesus, I don't care if you are doing it while performing a handstand or wearing goat hair sackcloth.
Image

User avatar
Ether
Usher
Usher
Posts: 322
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:32 am

Re: Charismatic spirituality

Post by Ether » Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:14 am

Ether wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 3:56 am
... If your heart in prayer focuses on Jesus, I don't care if you are doing it while performing a handstand or wearing goat hair sackcloth...
... but doing both at the same time would be grotesque and highly irritating, especially if said believer is of scottish origin. That is where to draw the line, dear people of God!!!

User avatar
Nature of a Man
Usher
Usher
Posts: 468
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:14 am

Re: Charismatic spirituality

Post by Nature of a Man » Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:26 am

Fainn wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:40 pm
Although I have never spoken in tongues myself, I am a cessationist, believing the gifts to have ceased when the Scripture was canonized. I base this on my own experience having been given false prophecies by both Messianic and nonMessianic charismatics. Charismatics are also usually highly legalistic and believe that sin, including smoking, is the result of something demonic. Generally so-called gifts are the imaginations of their minds. If gifts still continued today, why don 't we see actual healings or warnings of tragic events. I refuse to raise my child in such an environment where most of the preachers are con artists.

Sent from my SM-J337A using Tapatalk
I'm not an expert on the charismatic churches myself or the theology in which the phenomina relates to spiritual gifts.

The "tongues" phenomina is an interesting one, though.

(I've read about phenomena of that nature from a more analytical perspective, and the idea seems to be that the person is attempting to describe an abstract "transcendent" concept which conventional language doesn't have proper words for.

Supposedly, if one had a eureka moment and had insight into a concept like quantum mechanics, or platonic forms - it wouldn't be very easy to describe such a phenomena in ordinary words, and one might end up "butchering language" a bit in order to try to fit the concept into conventional vocabulary.

User avatar
hugodrax
Wowbagger The Infinitely Prolonged
Wowbagger The Infinitely Prolonged
Posts: 18449
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:00 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: Charismatic spirituality

Post by hugodrax » Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:05 am

Nature of a Man wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:26 am
Fainn wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:40 pm
Although I have never spoken in tongues myself, I am a cessationist, believing the gifts to have ceased when the Scripture was canonized. I base this on my own experience having been given false prophecies by both Messianic and nonMessianic charismatics. Charismatics are also usually highly legalistic and believe that sin, including smoking, is the result of something demonic. Generally so-called gifts are the imaginations of their minds. If gifts still continued today, why don 't we see actual healings or warnings of tragic events. I refuse to raise my child in such an environment where most of the preachers are con artists.

Sent from my SM-J337A using Tapatalk
I'm not an expert on the charismatic churches myself or the theology in which the phenomina relates to spiritual gifts.

The "tongues" phenomina is an interesting one, though.

(I've read about phenomena of that nature from a more analytical perspective, and the idea seems to be that the person is attempting to describe an abstract "transcendent" concept which conventional language doesn't have proper words for.

Supposedly, if one had a eureka moment and had insight into a concept like quantum mechanics, or platonic forms - it wouldn't be very easy to describe such a phenomena in ordinary words, and one might end up "butchering language" a bit in order to try to fit the concept into conventional vocabulary.
Whatever you think you said, you didn’t. That’s just a collection of words you threw together to fool yourself that you have cogent thoughts.
Notre Dame de Paris, priez pour nous y comprise les Jesuites.

User avatar
tuttle
Brother of the Briar
Brother of the Briar
Posts: 13682
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Middle-west
Contact:

Re: Charismatic spirituality

Post by tuttle » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:19 am

hugodrax wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:05 am
Nature of a Man wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:26 am
Fainn wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:40 pm
Although I have never spoken in tongues myself, I am a cessationist, believing the gifts to have ceased when the Scripture was canonized. I base this on my own experience having been given false prophecies by both Messianic and nonMessianic charismatics. Charismatics are also usually highly legalistic and believe that sin, including smoking, is the result of something demonic. Generally so-called gifts are the imaginations of their minds. If gifts still continued today, why don 't we see actual healings or warnings of tragic events. I refuse to raise my child in such an environment where most of the preachers are con artists.

Sent from my SM-J337A using Tapatalk
I'm not an expert on the charismatic churches myself or the theology in which the phenomina relates to spiritual gifts.

The "tongues" phenomina is an interesting one, though.

(I've read about phenomena of that nature from a more analytical perspective, and the idea seems to be that the person is attempting to describe an abstract "transcendent" concept which conventional language doesn't have proper words for.

Supposedly, if one had a eureka moment and had insight into a concept like quantum mechanics, or platonic forms - it wouldn't be very easy to describe such a phenomena in ordinary words, and one might end up "butchering language" a bit in order to try to fit the concept into conventional vocabulary.
Whatever you think you said, you didn’t. That’s just a collection of words you threw together to fool yourself that you have cogent thoughts.
I almost recommended everyone takes a drink whenever NoaM prefaces anything with "I'm not an expert... Although I've never... My layman thoughts on this... " etc. but I don't want anyone to die.
"The Evangelium has not abrogated legends; it has hallowed them" -JRR Tolkien

"Better to die cheerfully with the aid of a little tobacco, than to live disagreeably and remorseful without." -CS Lewis

User avatar
FredS
The Trappists say shut it, still talking
The Trappists say shut it, still talking
Posts: 22092
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:00 pm
Location: NOCO (Northern Colorado)

Re: Charismatic spirituality

Post by FredS » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:37 am

You know what I do when I see or feel some overwhelmingly beautiful and transcendent thing that's beyond description? I keep my damned mouth shut and take in every second of it that I can. If, later, I want to share it with someone who did not witness it in person I'll find words they can understand or I won't describe it at all.

Like a sunset over the Keys or your baby's first smile, showing someone a picture of it doesn't bring about the same feeling you had in person. And we all know a picture is worth a thousand gibberish words. What usually happens is that I shrug my shoulders and simply say "It was nice."
"If we ever get to heaven boys, it aint because we aint done nothin' wrong" - Kris Kristofferson

"One of the things I love about CPS is the frank and enthusiastic dysfunction here. God help me, I do love it so." – OldWorldSwine

"I'd like to put a hook in that puppet and swing it through a bunch of salmon!" - durangopipe

User avatar
Nature of a Man
Usher
Usher
Posts: 468
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:14 am

Re: Charismatic spirituality

Post by Nature of a Man » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:37 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:05 am
Nature of a Man wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:26 am
Fainn wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:40 pm
Although I have never spoken in tongues myself, I am a cessationist, believing the gifts to have ceased when the Scripture was canonized. I base this on my own experience having been given false prophecies by both Messianic and nonMessianic charismatics. Charismatics are also usually highly legalistic and believe that sin, including smoking, is the result of something demonic. Generally so-called gifts are the imaginations of their minds. If gifts still continued today, why don 't we see actual healings or warnings of tragic events. I refuse to raise my child in such an environment where most of the preachers are con artists.

Sent from my SM-J337A using Tapatalk
I'm not an expert on the charismatic churches myself or the theology in which the phenomina relates to spiritual gifts.

The "tongues" phenomina is an interesting one, though.

(I've read about phenomena of that nature from a more analytical perspective, and the idea seems to be that the person is attempting to describe an abstract "transcendent" concept which conventional language doesn't have proper words for.

Supposedly, if one had a eureka moment and had insight into a concept like quantum mechanics, or platonic forms - it wouldn't be very easy to describe such a phenomena in ordinary words, and one might end up "butchering language" a bit in order to try to fit the concept into conventional vocabulary.
Whatever you think you said, you didn’t. That’s just a collection of words you threw together to fool yourself that you have cogent thoughts.
Whatever you think I didn't say, I did.
tuttle wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:19 am
I almost recommended everyone takes a drink whenever NoaM prefaces anything with "I'm not an expert... Although I've never... My layman thoughts on this... " etc. but I don't want anyone to die.
I'm trying to be unpretentious about not being an expert on the subjects, they're just my own thoughts based on things I've observed or read here and there - take my thoughts with the same grain of salt that you would If I was offering medical advice.

User avatar
DepartedLight
Head of the Council of Fairies
Head of the Council of Fairies
Posts: 28435
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:00 pm
Location: Tobacco Fairy HQ, North Carolina

Re: Charismatic spirituality

Post by DepartedLight » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:41 pm

Mary was in the upper room.
DL Jake

Feel free to use that quote in your signature. Stanley76 » 22 Feb 2019 21:50

User avatar
Del
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
Posts: 38401
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: Charismatic spirituality

Post by Del » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:54 pm

DepartedLight wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:41 pm
Mary was in the upper room.
And the first to receive the Holy Spirit twice!
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"I shall not wear a crown of gold where my Master wore a crown of thorns." - Godfrey de Bouillon

User avatar
tuttle
Brother of the Briar
Brother of the Briar
Posts: 13682
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: Middle-west
Contact:

Re: Charismatic spirituality

Post by tuttle » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:14 am

Nature of a Man wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:37 pm
tuttle wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:19 am
I almost recommended everyone takes a drink whenever NoaM prefaces anything with "I'm not an expert... Although I've never... My layman thoughts on this... " etc. but I don't want anyone to die.
I'm trying to be unpretentious about not being an expert on the subjects, they're just my own thoughts based on things I've observed or read here and there - take my thoughts with the same grain of salt that you would If I was offering medical advice.
It was a light razz. Everyone around here has their quirks. :wink:
"The Evangelium has not abrogated legends; it has hallowed them" -JRR Tolkien

"Better to die cheerfully with the aid of a little tobacco, than to live disagreeably and remorseful without." -CS Lewis

User avatar
AFRS
Darth Floof-Floof
Darth Floof-Floof
Posts: 9929
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: University of Mars

Re: Charismatic spirituality

Post by AFRS » Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:43 pm

FredS wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:06 am
Roadmaster wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:13 am
Just my 2 cents, the charismatic form of worship makes me uncomfortable but calling them that practice this form derogatory names makes me just as uncomfortable.
Your lack of righteous indignation and hesitation to harshly judge people who are different makes me uncomfortable. :chili:
Your willingness to point out another man's lack of righteous indignation and hesitation to harshly judge people who are different makes me uncomfortable.

And by uncomfortable, I mean a sharp exhalation through the nostrils and a mild spasming of my diaphragm accompanied by a strange gutteral grunting sound coming from my throat.

User avatar
hugodrax
Wowbagger The Infinitely Prolonged
Wowbagger The Infinitely Prolonged
Posts: 18449
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:00 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: Charismatic spirituality

Post by hugodrax » Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:47 pm

AFRS wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:43 pm
FredS wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:06 am
Roadmaster wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:13 am
Just my 2 cents, the charismatic form of worship makes me uncomfortable but calling them that practice this form derogatory names makes me just as uncomfortable.
Your lack of righteous indignation and hesitation to harshly judge people who are different makes me uncomfortable. :chili:
Your willingness to point out another man's lack of righteous indignation and hesitation to harshly judge people who are different makes me uncomfortable.

And by uncomfortable, I mean a sharp exhalation through the nostrils and a mild spasming of my diaphragm accompanied by a strange gutteral grunting sound coming from my throat.
Is it accompanied by stertorous breathing?
Notre Dame de Paris, priez pour nous y comprise les Jesuites.

User avatar
AFRS
Darth Floof-Floof
Darth Floof-Floof
Posts: 9929
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: University of Mars

Re: Charismatic spirituality

Post by AFRS » Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:52 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:47 pm
AFRS wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:43 pm
FredS wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:06 am
Roadmaster wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:13 am
Just my 2 cents, the charismatic form of worship makes me uncomfortable but calling them that practice this form derogatory names makes me just as uncomfortable.
Your lack of righteous indignation and hesitation to harshly judge people who are different makes me uncomfortable. :chili:
Your willingness to point out another man's lack of righteous indignation and hesitation to harshly judge people who are different makes me uncomfortable.

And by uncomfortable, I mean a sharp exhalation through the nostrils and a mild spasming of my diaphragm accompanied by a strange gutteral grunting sound coming from my throat.
Is it accompanied by stertorous breathing?
Nothing quite so drastic. Uncomfortable as opposed to painful. Although, come to think of it, sometimes CPS puts me in a somnolent state which can result in stertorous breathing. I blame Fred.

User avatar
hugodrax
Wowbagger The Infinitely Prolonged
Wowbagger The Infinitely Prolonged
Posts: 18449
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:00 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: Charismatic spirituality

Post by hugodrax » Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:02 pm

AFRS wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:52 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:47 pm
AFRS wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:43 pm
FredS wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:06 am
Roadmaster wrote:
Mon Dec 17, 2018 8:13 am
Just my 2 cents, the charismatic form of worship makes me uncomfortable but calling them that practice this form derogatory names makes me just as uncomfortable.
Your lack of righteous indignation and hesitation to harshly judge people who are different makes me uncomfortable. :chili:
Your willingness to point out another man's lack of righteous indignation and hesitation to harshly judge people who are different makes me uncomfortable.

And by uncomfortable, I mean a sharp exhalation through the nostrils and a mild spasming of my diaphragm accompanied by a strange gutteral grunting sound coming from my throat.
Is it accompanied by stertorous breathing?
Nothing quite so drastic. Uncomfortable as opposed to painful. Although, come to think of it, sometimes CPS puts me in a somnolent state which can result in stertorous breathing. I blame Fred.
Thank heavens. I was trying to determine whether we were dealing with a terminal case of Englishness. Not, of course, that chronic cases aren't terminal in nature, but the acute onset Englishness requires immediate care.

We've been dealing with more and more acute cases out of the CoE recently.
Notre Dame de Paris, priez pour nous y comprise les Jesuites.

User avatar
Roadmaster
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 13474
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:00 pm
Location: Missouri The Show-me State

Re: Charismatic spirituality

Post by Roadmaster » Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:03 pm

NoM reminds me of a much younger version of myself by his questioning nearly everything.
I have decided there is no answer to most deep questions, at least in this life.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_CINAyjIr0
I just love that old car smell™

User avatar
Kerdy
Smootchie
Smootchie
Posts: 17006
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:00 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Charismatic spirituality

Post by Kerdy » Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:41 am

Nature of a Man wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:59 am
What is your opinion on "charismatic" Christianity or spirituality?

I have mixed feelings on it, but don't know a whole lot about it. In some cases I lean toward being skeptical of it, and see it as a way of treating spiritual concepts too much like a "drug" to get high on, rather than merely allowing spiritual experiences to come naturally as part of living life.
Not my cup of tea. I attended a function with a friend of mine many years ago because he was such a down to earth person and I thought it would be okay. Please don't take this the wrong way, but while there it was the only time I have ever felt the presence of something sinister inside a church building. It was a very unpleasant experience for me and I left as soon as I could. I will pass. In fact, now that I think about it, that may have been the turning point in my search even though many years passed since that time and when I actually began the journey.
"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr  ( c.160 )

“Moral principles do not depend on a majority vote. Wrong is wrong, even if everybody is wrong. Right is right, even if nobody is right.” - Venerable Servant of God, Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

Post Reply