Crucifix or Empty Cross

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Crucifix or Empty Cross

Post by joegoat » Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:47 pm

I want to start wearing a cross again. My last one disappeared from a checked bag that was randomly selected for search by the TSA... It was an empty cross off Celtic design. I can't decide on a crucifix or another empty cross to replace it.
Thoughts on a cross holding a corpus or being empty?
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Re: Crucifix or Empty Cross

Post by Thunktank » Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:59 pm

This is easy. If you’re something like a Baptist, use an empty cross. If you’re something like a Catholic use a crucifix. Just stick with your tradition and don’t over think it! :D
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Re: Crucifix or Empty Cross

Post by DepartedLight » Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:14 pm

I really like those Celtic iconic crosses. I wear one on a vest fob.

You could get both and pocket the one that fancies you that particular day.

I have a pewter Celtic cross on one fob and a small copper crucifix on the other.

I do have a single decade rosary that has a cross without Corpus. I prefer my rosaries with Corpus attached.

Since this is theology area; I guess I'll spout some junk that should be received cautiously, if at all.

The Corpus on the cross capturing the moments following the apex of His passion is the single most direct snap shot into all of Christianity.

It just happened. His side is pierced. The Word made flesh is dead. And by that a covenant was made between humanity and the Divine. Where death is swallowed by our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Juxtaposed to the view of the empty cross. A spotlight on The Church's greatest moment of angst and despair.

I love this Icon:

The harrowing of hell.

Christ is still the center focus. Not an empty cross that might or, might not be, the one Jesus was hung on since it was a popular method of Roman capitol punishment at the time in history it would be hard to tell.

A few hundred years later there was this gal named Helen that went in search of The Cross and claimed to have nabbed a chunk of it.

Her son was Constantine the Great.

OK. I think I've theologicaled all I can muster for one week.

This stuff is exhausting.
Last edited by DepartedLight on Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Crucifix or Empty Cross

Post by JMG » Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:18 pm

Thunktank wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:59 pm
This is easy. If you’re something like a Baptist, use an empty cross. If you’re something like a Catholic use a crucifix. Just stick with your tradition and don’t over think it! :D

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Re: Crucifix or Empty Cross

Post by hugodrax » Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:22 pm

JMG wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:18 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:59 pm
This is easy. If you’re something like a Baptist, use an empty cross. If you’re something like a Catholic use a crucifix. Just stick with your tradition and don’t over think it! :D

CULTURAL APPROPRIATION!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Re: Crucifix or Empty Cross

Post by Sir Moose » Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:28 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:22 pm
JMG wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:18 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:59 pm
This is easy. If you’re something like a Baptist, use an empty cross. If you’re something like a Catholic use a crucifix. Just stick with your tradition and don’t over think it! :D

CULTURAL APPROPRIATION!!!!!!!!!!!!


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She seems nice. Is she nice?
That's weird...I thought she seemed cross. :rimshot:
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Re: Crucifix or Empty Cross

Post by Del » Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:33 pm

I appreciate the wisdom which says, "The 'best' bible translation is one that you are comfortable reading."

Likewise with any iconography that you want to wear or have about your home or office. The best is what speaks to your own heart.

However, you will meet new friends in accord with the tradition that you choose.
Thunktank wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:59 pm
This is easy. If you’re something like a Baptist, use an empty cross. If you’re something like a Catholic use a crucifix. Just stick with your tradition and don’t over think it! :D
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Re: Crucifix or Empty Cross

Post by Thunktank » Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:52 pm

JMG wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:18 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:59 pm
This is easy. If you’re something like a Baptist, use an empty cross. If you’re something like a Catholic use a crucifix. Just stick with your tradition and don’t over think it! :D

CULTURAL APPROPRIATION!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Lol!

To be clear, I wasn’t thinking about that at all!

But I do speak as a man who tried darn near everything and about now I’m feeling like I just should have remained a rebellious Baptist who drinks whiskey and smokes pipes in good conscience, you know? Someone like a Catholic. The more things change, the more they stay the same. :mrgreen:
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” -Yoda

“I grew up in a church with Ned Flanders. Down to the mustache. But so did a bunch of people I assume, which makes it so fun-diddly-unny.” -tuttle

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Re: Crucifix or Empty Cross

Post by DepartedLight » Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:58 pm

Thunktank wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:52 pm
JMG wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:18 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:59 pm
This is easy. If you’re something like a Baptist, use an empty cross. If you’re something like a Catholic use a crucifix. Just stick with your tradition and don’t over think it! :D

CULTURAL APPROPRIATION!!!!!!!!!!!!


Image
Lol!

To be clear, I wasn’t thinking about that at all!

But I do speak as a man who tried darn near everything and about now I’m feeling like I just should have remained a rebellious Baptist who drinks whiskey and smokes pipes in good conscience, you know? Someone like a Catholic. The more things change, the more they stay the same. :mrgreen:
and also has a modest Icon corner. Nothing says Rebel Baptist like a couple of Icons on the wall. Am I right?
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Feel free to use that quote in your signature. Stanley76 » 22 Feb 2019 21:50

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Re: Crucifix or Empty Cross

Post by Thunktank » Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:36 pm

DepartedLight wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:58 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:52 pm
JMG wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:18 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:59 pm
This is easy. If you’re something like a Baptist, use an empty cross. If you’re something like a Catholic use a crucifix. Just stick with your tradition and don’t over think it! :D

CULTURAL APPROPRIATION!!!!!!!!!!!!


Image
Lol!

To be clear, I wasn’t thinking about that at all!

But I do speak as a man who tried darn near everything and about now I’m feeling like I just should have remained a rebellious Baptist who drinks whiskey and smokes pipes in good conscience, you know? Someone like a Catholic. The more things change, the more they stay the same. :mrgreen:
and also has a modest Icon corner. Nothing says Rebel Baptist like a couple of Icons on the wall. Am I right?
Well no, that would simply be a confused Baptist. Baptists put Bible verses on their walls, the Orthodox do not. The Baptist likes icons in museums, and the Orthodox like Bible verses during readings.
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” -Yoda

“I grew up in a church with Ned Flanders. Down to the mustache. But so did a bunch of people I assume, which makes it so fun-diddly-unny.” -tuttle

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Re: Crucifix or Empty Cross

Post by DepartedLight » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:35 pm

Thunktank wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:36 pm
DepartedLight wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:58 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:52 pm
JMG wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:18 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:59 pm
This is easy. If you’re something like a Baptist, use an empty cross. If you’re something like a Catholic use a crucifix. Just stick with your tradition and don’t over think it! :D

CULTURAL APPROPRIATION!!!!!!!!!!!!


Image
Lol!

To be clear, I wasn’t thinking about that at all!

But I do speak as a man who tried darn near everything and about now I’m feeling like I just should have remained a rebellious Baptist who drinks whiskey and smokes pipes in good conscience, you know? Someone like a Catholic. The more things change, the more they stay the same. :mrgreen:
and also has a modest Icon corner. Nothing says Rebel Baptist like a couple of Icons on the wall. Am I right?
Well no, that would simply be a confused Baptist. Baptists put Bible verses on their walls, the Orthodox do not. The Baptist likes icons in museums, and the Orthodox like Bible verses during readings.
Wait. Hold on here. I've always thought a confused Baptist was defined as a Baptist who woke up with a serious hangover and what appears to be a hooker next to him in the hotel bed (male hooker with male Confused Baptist gets bonus points).

What's that?

Of course they're nude. Come on, man. What? They gonna be in like squirrel costumes or some sort of poop like that? Get real.
DL Jake

Feel free to use that quote in your signature. Stanley76 » 22 Feb 2019 21:50

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Re: Crucifix or Empty Cross

Post by Thunktank » Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:15 am

So, were we helpful Joegoat?
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” -Yoda

“I grew up in a church with Ned Flanders. Down to the mustache. But so did a bunch of people I assume, which makes it so fun-diddly-unny.” -tuttle

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Re: Crucifix or Empty Cross

Post by Jocose » Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:17 am

I vote one of each.
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Re: Crucifix or Empty Cross

Post by joegoat » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:29 am

Thunktank wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:15 am
So, were we helpful Joegoat?
As usual, I'm a donkey picking the hay out of the stubble. I suppose my question may have been better narrowed by asking what a crucifix means to you and what an empty cross means to you?
I grew up a Baptist and after becoming a confused Baptist, sans the hookers, I moved to the Anglicans of North America. The ANA uses both crucifixes and empty crosses.
Growing up Baptist, you're taught that a crucifix represents slapping Christ in the face by continually having him being crucified.
Roman Catholics seem to wear almost exclusively crucifixes. Why is this?
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Re: Crucifix or Empty Cross

Post by Jester » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:33 am

joegoat wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:29 am
Growing up Baptist, you're taught that a crucifix represents slapping Christ in the face by continually having him being crucified.
We went to different Baptist churches.
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Re: Crucifix or Empty Cross

Post by gaining_age » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:36 am

Empty tomb option?

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Re: Crucifix or Empty Cross

Post by hugodrax » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:54 am

joegoat wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:29 am
Thunktank wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:15 am
So, were we helpful Joegoat?
As usual, I'm a donkey picking the hay out of the stubble. I suppose my question may have been better narrowed by asking what a crucifix means to you and what an empty cross means to you?
I grew up a Baptist and after becoming a confused Baptist, sans the hookers, I moved to the Anglicans of North America. The ANA uses both crucifixes and empty crosses.
Growing up Baptist, you're taught that a crucifix represents slapping Christ in the face by continually having him being crucified.
Roman Catholics seem to wear almost exclusively crucifixes. Why is this?
An attempt at a respectful answer. Let me know if it doesnr make sense. Realize I can only answer for myself and not for all.

It is required to have a crucifix in a Catholic Church. It's the point of the Mass--Christ was crucified for us. Ours were the sufferings he bore. The Mass is the Crucifixion.

As for personal tastes, well, they're personal. To me, both crucifixes and crosses are acceptable as mementos of faith. My house has both. I prefer the symbolism of the crucifix because it reminds me that the sins I commit in the here and now are the sins that crucified Christ and that I bear responsibility for His death, too. It also helps me focus my mind on just what he went through, willingly, for a chuckle head like me.

The argument for and against for personal use never made much sense to me. Both Death and Resurrection have their place in the Passion. Any arguments for one over the other smack of referred idolatry to me. If one thinks there is more power in a cross over a crucifix or vice versa, it strikes me that they are worshipping the object rather than using it as a reminder of one's faith and accusing the other guy rather than examining their own actions. And that's no accusation against you, Joe. We both believe in Christ Risen and Christ Crucified.
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Re: Crucifix or Empty Cross

Post by FredS » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:55 am

joegoat wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:29 am
. . .Growing up Baptist, you're taught that a crucifix represents slapping Christ in the face by continually having him being crucified. . .
I've heard that critique also.

I suppose I agree with Jake that "The Corpus on the cross capturing the moments following the apex of His passion is the single most direct snap shot into all of Christianity." It represents His love for us. That He suffered horrible torture and died for us.

The empty cross, however, represents Christ overcoming death. To me, that's the apex of Christianity. We all die after all, some even die by the hand of tormentors, but only one overcame death. HE'S NOT DEAD.

One coin. Two sides.

EDIT - While I was writing, hugo wrote this perfect synopsis:
Both Death and Resurrection have their place in the Passion. Any arguments for one over the other smack of referred idolatry to me.
Last edited by FredS on Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Crucifix or Empty Cross

Post by gaining_age » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:00 am

I've heard discussion before about the cross vs. the tomb and which is the stronger representation of Christianity. One comment that stuck with me over the years was that the cross was stronger since Jesus as God willingly laid down his life to die for our sins while the empty tomb was more obvious as a consequence that God would not stay slain.

This thread and the most recent comments by FredS and Hugo brought that to mind. It may not resolve assist in the decision of empty cross vs. crucifix but it seemed relevant.

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Re: Crucifix or Empty Cross

Post by sweetandsour » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:10 am

Jester wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:33 am
joegoat wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:29 am
Growing up Baptist, you're taught that a crucifix represents slapping Christ in the face by continually having him being crucified.
We went to different Baptist churches.
Ha! Yep, same here.

However, my wife once hung one (a crucifix) on the wall at the bottom of the stairs so the kids would see it every time they came downstairs from their rooms, etc. The first day it was there our oldest asks "isn't that sort of, you know, Catholic?".
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