Prophecy

For those deep thinkers out there.
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hugodrax
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Re: Prophecy

Post by hugodrax » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:36 pm

AFRS wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:32 pm
I told you there'd be worms.
Not Hov, though. The man eats tobacco.
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Re: Prophecy

Post by Roadmaster » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:29 pm

Stanley76 wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:34 am
hugodrax wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:12 pm
I'm not of an opinion one way or the other, sir. "Nothing shall be impossible for God" is my motto. He will do what He will do.

Only thing I question is our ability to interpret the prophecies: frankly, we stink on ice at it. That way madness lies. If you dont believe me, look around YouTube for the oddjobs. Maybe one of them is right, but how would I know?
Oh I don't mean to stir up any cans of worms, but I am interested. And you are right, the thing about interpretations is that they are just as varied as opinions, in fact they may BE opinions as far as I know. I was thinking more in terms of observations. Last thing I want to do is start any arguments, but hang on a second while I fill up my pipe and get some popcorn and I'll just sit here quietly. Maybe this subject should be in Purgatory section but the moderators apparently came to their senses and shut it down. LOL.
Purgatory is shut down and replaced with Opt In Discussions.
If you are interested an Admin can set you in.
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Re: Prophecy

Post by Roadmaster » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:49 pm

Getting back to your original topic one thing that gets my attention is the mark of the beast thing. There are people walking around today with a RFID chip for various reasons. Ithas been in animals for several years. All this talk about voter fraud it would be easy to imagine requiring a chip to vote or to even to be in this country for that matter.
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Stanley76
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Re: Prophecy

Post by Stanley76 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:54 am

Roadmaster wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:49 pm
Getting back to your original topic one thing that gets my attention is the mark of the beast thing. There are people walking around today with a RFID chip for various reasons. Ithas been in animals for several years. All this talk about voter fraud it would be easy to imagine requiring a chip to vote or to even to be in this country for that matter.
The mark of the beast reference has always been a terrifying mystery to me. It's not just those chips that make me wonder but also things like human genetic experimentation, AI and serious talk of human beings downloading their "consciousness" aka souls into computers and becoming immortal. For myself, the only immortality I want comes from salvation through Jesus. I think true immortality in this world/realm would be about the most horrible fate imaginable, except for hell itself.

As far as the end times thing goes, there have been other periods in history that must have seemed like the end times prophecies coming to pass to the people who lived through them. WWII, the Holocaust, the French Revolution, the U.S. Civil War and others. But there are events in this world today that really spur me to work on my faith and prayer, Israel becoming a nation again, the rise of anti-semitism worldwide, and the decay of morality (Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. ) But only God knows the day. I can wonder in one hand and spit in the other and see which one fills up first.

Just my opinion.
"'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

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Re: Prophecy

Post by Roadmaster » Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:53 am

Stanley76 wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:54 am
Roadmaster wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:49 pm
Getting back to your original topic one thing that gets my attention is the mark of the beast thing. There are people walking around today with a RFID chip for various reasons. Ithas been in animals for several years. All this talk about voter fraud it would be easy to imagine requiring a chip to vote or to even to be in this country for that matter.
The mark of the beast reference has always been a terrifying mystery to me. It's not just those chips that make me wonder but also things like human genetic experimentation, AI and serious talk of human beings downloading their "consciousness" aka souls into computers and becoming immortal. For myself, the only immortality I want comes from salvation through Jesus. I think true immortality in this world/realm would be about the most horrible fate imaginable, except for hell itself.

As far as the end times thing goes, there have been other periods in history that must have seemed like the end times prophecies coming to pass to the people who lived through them. WWII, the Holocaust, the French Revolution, the U.S. Civil War and others. But there are events in this world today that really spur me to work on my faith and prayer, Israel becoming a nation again, the rise of anti-semitism worldwide, and the decay of morality (Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. ) But only God knows the day. I can wonder in one hand and spit in the other and see which one fills up first.

Just my opinion.
Valid points, all of them. We have almost instant communications with most of the world now. I remember as a teen you had to go through the operator just to call out of state. The earth’s temperature is increasing pretty fast, man made or not. Population is increasing at an exponential rate. Things are changing faster than at anytime in history. But as you said we have gone through trying times before. There are those who think Revelation was about the Roman Empire and they may be correct or correct about some of it. It does seem to me that we would not have been given prophecy if we are to ignore it.
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Re: Prophecy

Post by FredS » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:05 am

Roadmaster wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:53 am
. . . It does seem to me that we would not have been given prophecy if we are to ignore it.
That's an interesting point. I wonder though, what we should do with it?

Should we do gymnastics to make current times fit the description of end times?

Should we be happy or sad about it?

Should we start trying extra hard to get our family and friends to accept Christ and repent? Time to double down?

Should we fill our bunkers with MRE's and extra ammo?

I've not seen or read any of the Left Behind stories. Maybe all of this is explained therein.
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Re: Prophecy

Post by Stanley76 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:09 am

FredS wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:05 am
Roadmaster wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:53 am
. . . It does seem to me that we would not have been given prophecy if we are to ignore it.
That's an interesting point. I wonder though, what we should do with it?

Should we do gymnastics to make current times fit the description of end times?

Should we be happy or sad about it?

Should we start trying extra hard to get our family and friends to accept Christ and repent? Time to double down?

Should we fill our bunkers with MRE's and extra ammo?

I've not seen or read any of the Left Behind stories. Maybe all of this is explained therein.
My uneducated mind thinks prophecy is a warning and intended to spur us to step up to the plate and ask God for salvation. Saved by Grace through faith. Just my opinion though.
"'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

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Re: Prophecy

Post by UncleBob » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:11 am

FredS wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:05 am
Roadmaster wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:53 am
. . . It does seem to me that we would not have been given prophecy if we are to ignore it.
That's an interesting point. I wonder though, what we should do with it?

Should we do gymnastics to make current times fit the description of end times?

Should we be happy or sad about it?

Should we start trying extra hard to get our family and friends to accept Christ and repent? Time to double down?

Should we fill our bunkers with MRE's and extra ammo?

I've not seen or read any of the Left Behind stories. Maybe all of this is explained therein.
RM does raise a valid point but, if it has been fulfilled in Rome, then it would be similar to the prophecies in the OT. We study them to see how Christ fulfilled God's promises; it is an exercise in studying the faithfulness of God.
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Re: Prophecy

Post by Adam Z » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:18 am

UncleBob wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:11 am
FredS wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:05 am
Roadmaster wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:53 am
. . . It does seem to me that we would not have been given prophecy if we are to ignore it.
That's an interesting point. I wonder though, what we should do with it?

Should we do gymnastics to make current times fit the description of end times?

Should we be happy or sad about it?

Should we start trying extra hard to get our family and friends to accept Christ and repent? Time to double down?

Should we fill our bunkers with MRE's and extra ammo?

I've not seen or read any of the Left Behind stories. Maybe all of this is explained therein.
RM does raise a valid point but, if it has been fulfilled in Rome, then it would be similar to the prophecies in the OT. We study them to see how Christ fulfilled God's promises; it is an exercise in studying the faithfulness of God.
^^^THIS^^^

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I tend to find the doctrinal books often more helpful in devotion than the devotional books.... I believe that many who find that "nothing happens" when they sit down, or kneel down, to a book of devotion, would find that the heart sings unbidden while they are working their way through a rough bit of theology with a pipe in their teeth and a pencil in their hand.
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Re: Prophecy

Post by Joshoowah » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:58 am

Note: this is longer than I intended

If you're specifically talking about "the day of the LORD" (judgment day), opinions will be varied. There are four typical views, but I find them all a bit lacking personally. Also, you can't really read Revelation without reading Ezekiel and Daniel because Revelation picks up where they left off.

I always tread carefully when interpreting apocalyptic literature symbols literally, as they are symbols and images portraying something that has either happened or will happen. Kind of like parables. A camel cannot go through the eye of a needle, but the point was stark and clear nonetheless. Generally, judgment day began the day Jesus died, with the final judgment to take place upon Jesus' return and the new heaven and new earth bound thereafter. The "mark of the beast" is interesting, but I'd encourage you first to look into why it's the forehead or hand the mark is bore on. Everything in Rev. 12-17 is a mimicking of what has already taken place for followers of God (e.g. anti-trinity [Dragon, 1st Beast, 2nd Beast], mortal wound that had healed [contrasts Christ], words of deceit [vs. truth], marks and seals). Believers are sealed on the forehead in Rev. 7, which I suspect has to do with the embracing of mind and body (hand symbolizing one's power and actions, perhaps). Just as the mark for believers is a seal of ownership (you belong to God), so the mark of the beast is a seal of ownership (those bearing its mark belong to the beast [i.e. Satan]). Contextually, Rome spent a great deal of time making sure people submitted to compulsory imperial worship during John's context (AD 70-95). Certificates were issued to those loyal to the emperor and participating in imperial worship (quite a few papyrus manuscripts give evidence of this). Rev. 2:9 tells us that Christians were materially poor because of this type of persecution, which hinders them from "buying and selling" (cf. Rev. 13:16). "If this background is in mind in Revelation 13, then it enforces the metaphorical idea that the mark alludes to the state's political and economic 'stamp of approval,' given only to those who go along with its religious demands" (G.K. Beale).

Ignatius of Antioch uses a similar metaphor: "Seeing, then, all things have an end, these two things are simultaneously set before us—death and life; and every one shall go unto his own place. For as there are two kinds of coins, the one of God, the other of the world, and each of these has its special character stamped upon it, [so is it also here.] The unbelieving are of this world; but the believing have, in love, the character of God the Father by Jesus Christ, by whom, if we are not in readiness to die into His passion, His life is not in us."

Perhaps an equally convincing argument involves the mark connoting that the followers of Christ or the beast are stamped with the character of their respective leader.

That's my opinion at least, and it isn't worth much. The point, though, is that dabbling in judgment theology is a bit above our pay grades. No one knows when it will come to fruition, nor should we worry about it. Our calling is to live out the immanent return of Christ because the message is urgent. We pray for the Lord to come not because we desire for our enemies to suffer and be punished, but rather because we desire the Lord's true peace and true justice for those who suffer. Until then, part of the kingdom is already here and needs to be recognized as such, otherwise the Great Commission is nonsense.
"For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose?" Philippians 1:21-22

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