Is it possible to harm the dead?

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Hovannes
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Is it possible to harm the dead?

Post by Hovannes » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:22 am

Curious as to your thoughts on this.
God can do anything of course, but what of you and I?
Consider both the body and the soul, as they would be separate--once restored it wouldn't be an issue--earthly havoc isn't going to change the heavenly order of things near as I can tell, but while separated there is definitely a question.
Throughout History, dead bodies have been defiled and curses have been heaped upon the deceased.
While such things likely effect survivors, what of the dead?
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Re: Is it possible to harm the dead?

Post by DAN » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:25 am

You'll have to ask George Romero.

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Re: Is it possible to harm the dead?

Post by wosbald » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:30 am

+JMJ+

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Re: Is it possible to harm the dead?

Post by Hovannes » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:02 am

DAN wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:25 am
You'll have to ask George Romero.
Isn't he dead?
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Re: Is it possible to harm the dead?

Post by Hovannes » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:08 am

wosbald wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:30 am
+JMJ+

Image
Two in the chest is an interesting idea but the Mozambique is thought to be more efficient,
But what of afterwards?

Praying for the souls of the dead is Biblical, so not praying for the souls of the dead could be a sin of omission.
But that's regarding the spiritual. What of the earthly?
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Re: Is it possible to harm the dead?

Post by Goose55 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:11 am

I think the wicked dead can be harmed. There are two resurrections. The 1st of the righteous and later the wicked. It would be at that time that the wicked dead will be judged/ harmed.
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Re: Is it possible to harm the dead?

Post by Hovannes » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:33 am

Goose55 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:11 am
I think the wicked dead can be harmed. There are two resurrections. The 1st of the righteous and later the wicked. It would be at that time that the wicked dead will be judged/ harmed.
Presumably judged by God, but what about mortals?
http://www.tcm.com/mediaroom/video/3038 ... owers.html
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Re: Is it possible to harm the dead?

Post by Goose55 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:52 am

Hovannes wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:33 am
Goose55 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:11 am
I think the wicked dead can be harmed. There are two resurrections. The 1st of the righteous and later the wicked. It would be at that time that the wicked dead will be judged/ harmed.
Presumably judged by God, but what about mortals?
http://www.tcm.com/mediaroom/video/3038 ... owers.html
All of us are mortals. That's why when someone suffers a fatal illness or injury they refer to it as a mortality. They're dead. They breathe their last and their breath returns to God who gave it.

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Re: Is it possible to harm the dead?

Post by DepartedLight » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:54 am

DAN wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:25 am
You'll have to ask George Romero.
:lol: :lol:
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Re: Is it possible to harm the dead?

Post by Hovannes » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:06 am

Goose55 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:52 am
Hovannes wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:33 am
Goose55 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:11 am
I think the wicked dead can be harmed. There are two resurrections. The 1st of the righteous and later the wicked. It would be at that time that the wicked dead will be judged/ harmed.
Presumably judged by God, but what about mortals?
http://www.tcm.com/mediaroom/video/3038 ... owers.html
All of us are mortals. That's why when someone suffers a fatal illness or injury they refer to it as a mortality. They're dead. They breathe their last and their breath returns to God who gave it.

"Lazarus is dead." ~ Jesus
This could get overly complicated!
If the breath is spiritual, that is a different matter than if it is earthly.
The body needs lungs (or something---gills? Respirator? Created lungs in the case of Adam?) to accept that breath.
I've yet to meet a corpse with working lungs.
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Re: Is it possible to harm the dead?

Post by Hovannes » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:13 am

Goose55 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:11 am
I think the wicked dead can be harmed. There are two resurrections. The 1st of the righteous and later the wicked. It would be at that time that the wicked dead will be judged/ harmed.
The Thomistic thought, if I'm not mistaken, is that the wicked harmed themselves---Free Will. CS Lewis also, exemplified in The Great Divorce
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Re: Is it possible to harm the dead?

Post by Hovannes » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:17 am

DAN wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:25 am
You'll have to ask George Romero.
Too late! :(
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/m ... story.html
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Re: Is it possible to harm the dead?

Post by Winton » Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:14 pm

I have not studied this issue, but I believe that at the point of death, our fate is sealed. Let not quibble about the man who is on life support / coma that never recovers. That is God's decision, not ours.

I believe that there are warnings in the Bible, that address dealing with the dead bodies. I think this has to do with protecting the living from disease and other issues that come from the body that decomposes.

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Re: Is it possible to harm the dead?

Post by Jocose » Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:40 pm

After I croak, I want to be buried.

The wife tells me cremation is cheaper.

I think that the Orthodox say cremation is OK.

I still want to be buried.
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Re: Is it possible to harm the dead?

Post by Hovannes » Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:49 pm

Winton wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:14 pm
I have not studied this issue, but I believe that at the point of death, our fate is sealed. Let not quibble about the man who is on life support / coma that never recovers. That is God's decision, not ours.

I believe that there are warnings in the Bible, that address dealing with the dead bodies. I think this has to do with protecting the living from disease and other issues that come from the body that decomposes.
How does this fit with the admonition not to speak ill of the dead?
Also, how long is the "point" of death?
Instant?
Augustine writes that there is no dying (if I remember correctly from The City of God) one is either dead or alive, presumably even for the fellow on life support(do accounts of people coming back from the dead affirm or deny this?) OTOH once we leave this world, time is quite a different kettle of fish---once again accounts from people brought back from death may support this (I'd relate my own experience here, but that would confuse the issue) There is "a" time for purgation (both Aquinas and Augustine plus a bunch of the Church Fathers agree on this) but is it time as we know time?
Maybe not.
At that point it would seem any further harm would not be possible,
But until then?
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Re: Is it possible to harm the dead?

Post by Hovannes » Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:53 pm

Jocose wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:40 pm
After I croak, I want to be buried.

The wife tells me cremation is cheaper.

I think that the Orthodox say cremation is OK.

I still want to be buried.
Just don't make an ash out of yourself. :facepalm:
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Re: Is it possible to harm the dead?

Post by FredS » Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:56 pm

Jo touches on cremation v burial and the only reason it matters (I think) is if we'll need our current bodies when we're called home? Does cremation keep us from eternal life? Will we stumble blindly through eternity if we donate our eyes upon our death?

To Hovs OP - No, it's not possible to harm the dead. Dead bodies can certainly be desecrated but that is a harm to the living.
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Re: Is it possible to harm the dead?

Post by Jocose » Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:10 pm

FredS wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:56 pm
Jo touches on cremation v burial and the only reason it matters (I think) is if we'll need our current bodies when we're called home? Does cremation keep us from eternal life? Will we stumble blindly through eternity if we donate our eyes upon our death?

To Hovs OP - No, it's not possible to harm the dead. Dead bodies can certainly be desecrated but that is a harm to the living.
Jesus said:

Therefore if thy hand or thy foot cause thee to fall, cut them off and cast them from thee; it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into everlasting fire..


Will there be maimed folks in heaven? Dunno..
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Re: Is it possible to harm the dead?

Post by coco » Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:35 pm

Hovannes wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:49 pm
...How does this fit with the admonition not to speak ill of the dead?
Are you saying that there is a biblical admonition not to speak ill of the dead?
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Re: Is it possible to harm the dead?

Post by TNLawPiper » Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:02 pm

what is this i dont even

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