Loving your pastor

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Loving your pastor

Post by coco » Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:30 am

This is a thread to discuss friendships with a pastor. It is an continuation of a discussion in AUFAYNOCA which began with a joke from FredS.
FredS wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:25 am
coco wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:12 am
gaining_age wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:54 pm
durangopipe wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:23 pm
FredS wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:30 pm
I emailed some words of encouragement to the pastor at our new church. His messages both immediately before and after my fathers death were words I needed to hear so I told him the HS was working through him on at least two occasions recently. He emailed back that he'd like to get together and "fellowship" with me sometime soon.

I think I may have to find a another church.
Don’t be too hard on him, Fred.

Pastors are in a strange place, always wanting to say the right thing and use the words they think their parishioners expect them to use.

I imagine he’d laugh his ass off if you just wrote back, “Screw the fellowship thing. How about we just go grab a cup of coffee and get to know each other.”

The Lutheran minister here a while back was our best friend. He always struggled with that.
Friends-- true friends-- for pastors can be difficult to cultivate.
Most pastors have no friends... save for friends found on a quirky internet forum.
Anyone who knows me knows I'm an irreverent guy. The only people I respect simply because of their position are my parents, cops, and POTUS. Everyone else is 'just a guy' to me. My last pastor and I were pretty tight. Like he could come-to-my-house-and-share-scotch-and-a-smoke-on-the-patio-when-things-get-sideways friend. Like hey-meet-me-at-Panera's-in-15-minutes-for-lunch kind of friend. I'm all to familiar with the problem of people acting weird around their pastor and how uncomfortable both sides look when that happens. It also leads to disappointment in the parishioner when they find out the pastor is a fallible man just like the rest of us. Ministers are certainly called to be set apart and (perhaps unfairly) held to a higher standard, but they put their pants on one leg at a time just like the rest of us.
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Re: Loving your pastor

Post by coco » Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:32 am

hugodrax wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:06 am
FredS wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:39 am
durangopipe wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:23 pm
Don’t be too hard on him, Fred . . .
The Lutheran minister here a while back was our best friend. He always struggled with that.
Funny you should mention the Lutheran pastor. A schoolmate of mine is a Lutheran pastor for two small German parishes in western KS. Here's an exchange from yesterday on FB. Stan 'got it' and gave me a thumbs up. A couple of his parishioners admonished me, writing that he is not a bad pastor.

Image
Yeah, but those are Lutherans. Congenitally, no Lutheran has ever had a sense of humor. Decent, God-fearing folk, but not humorists.
FWW, I find both the meme and Hugo's comment amusing. I would not make a good Lutheran nor a good Baptist.
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Re: Loving your pastor

Post by coco » Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:35 am

1 John 2:7–11

"Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment that you had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word that you have heard. [8] At the same time, it is a new commandment that I am writing to you, which is true in him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true light is already shining. [9] Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness. [10] Whoever loves his brother abides in the light, and in him there is no cause for stumbling. [11] But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes."

Your pastor is also a brother in Christ. What does it say about someone if he doesn't love the pastor?
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Re: Loving your pastor

Post by coco » Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:41 am

FredS wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:25 am
... Ministers are certainly called to be set apart and (perhaps unfairly) held to a higher standard, but they put their pants on one leg at a time just like the rest of us.
We absolutely should hold pastors to a high standard, this standard:

1 Timothy 3:1–7

"The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. [2] Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, [3] not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. [4] He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, [5] for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? [6] He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. [7] Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil."

That being said, most of the gossip that is said about pastors does not involve a violation of the Ten Commandments, but a violation of less-than-biblical cultural standards. Worse, these complaints are not made known to the one person who really needs to know about them, at least until it is too late. You should help your pastor, your brother, reach higher levels of righteousness, but talking behind his back isn't going to get him there.
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Re: Loving your pastor

Post by coco » Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:54 am

Concerning gossip and the pastor:

Romans 1:29–32

"They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, [30] slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, [31] foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. [32] Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them."

Gossip, like murder, is a sin that is prevalent among those who are the farthest from God (see the context in chapter one), and it absolutely should not be found anywhere in the Christian church (1 Cor 12:20; 1 Tim 5:13). When it involves a pastor, God's ambassador and undershepherd, it takes honor away from Christ and is an attack on Christ, since Christ called and sent that pastor. It also promotes disunity in the church, which is vital for genuine Christianity (Ps 133; Eph 4:3, 13).
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Re: Loving your pastor

Post by FredS » Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:58 am

coco wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:41 am
FredS wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:25 am
... Ministers are certainly called to be set apart and (perhaps unfairly) held to a higher standard, but they put their pants on one leg at a time just like the rest of us.
We absolutely should hold pastors to a high standard, this standard:

1 Timothy 3:1–7

"The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. [2] Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, [3] not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. [4] He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, [5] for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? [6] He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. [7] Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil."

That being said, most of the gossip that is said about pastors does not involve a violation of the Ten Commandments, but a violation of less-than-biblical cultural standards. Worse, these complaints are not made known to the one person who really needs to know about them, at least until it is too late. You should help your pastor, your brother, reach higher levels of righteousness, but talking behind his back isn't going to get him there.
^But that's a standard I hold myself and my friends to also. I fall short once in a while (OK, every day) but that's where I aim.

Q's for our pastors:
- Are you a peer of your parishioners or an authority over them?
- Does that relationship change from Sunday morning service to Sunday brunch with the church widows to Monday evening with the men's softball team?
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Re: Loving your pastor

Post by coco » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:09 am

FredS wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:58 am
coco wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:41 am
FredS wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:25 am
... Ministers are certainly called to be set apart and (perhaps unfairly) held to a higher standard, but they put their pants on one leg at a time just like the rest of us.
We absolutely should hold pastors to a high standard, this standard:

1 Timothy 3:1–7

"The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. [2] Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, [3] not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. [4] He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, [5] for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? [6] He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. [7] Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil."

That being said, most of the gossip that is said about pastors does not involve a violation of the Ten Commandments, but a violation of less-than-biblical cultural standards. Worse, these complaints are not made known to the one person who really needs to know about them, at least until it is too late. You should help your pastor, your brother, reach higher levels of righteousness, but talking behind his back isn't going to get him there.
^But that's a standard I hold myself and my friends to also. I fall short once in a while (OK, every day) but that's where I aim.

Q's for our pastors:
- Are you a peer of your parishioners or an authority over them?
- Does that relationship change from Sunday morning service to Sunday brunch with the church widows to Monday evening with the men's softball team?
Off the cuff thoughts: I think that our society would say that it is impossible to be both friends with someone and in charge of someone. The Bible, on the other hand, does picture very close relationships involving authority (e.g. Eph 5:28-32). If the pastor genuinely loved his parishioner more than himself and did not lord over them, I think that the tension of peer/authority would be eased.
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Re: Loving your pastor

Post by FredS » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:26 am

coco wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:09 am
Off the cuff thoughts: I think that our society would say that it is impossible to be both friends with someone and in charge of someone. The Bible, on the other hand, does picture very close relationships involving authority (e.g. Eph 5:28-32). If the pastor genuinely loved his parishioner more than himself and did not lord over them, I think that the tension of peer/authority would be eased.
I understand it's a tricky dance, especially in our culture that eschews authority. One the other hand, we've all known pastors (and bosses, and perhaps even parents) with the mindset of "I don't care if the like me, as long as they respect me" which they presume gives license to be a dick.

[EDIT] - This next sentence has a huge potential for coming across wrong, so forgive me in advance if it seems insulting.
I think how comfortable one is with ones station has a great effect on how one accepts those who are put in authority over us. People who aren't comfortable in their own skin are likely to either reject it out of hand or accept it without question. So, their pastor is either dismissed (you're not the boss of me), or put on an unapproachable pedestal (let me bow and kiss your ring m'lord). Either way, interactions will be uncomfortable.
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Re: Loving your pastor

Post by coco » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:40 am

A positive application: Go to lunch with your pastor sometime. Talk about normal stuff.
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Re: Loving your pastor

Post by Jocose » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:46 am

My old priest took me to breakfast once. I was gonna buy but he insisted he would get it. He has since moved. That's about all the fellowship I can handle.
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Re: Loving your pastor

Post by hugodrax » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:23 pm

Holy s***, that's a lot of posts, Coco. Early Gooseian levels of conversation for one. Actually, that's unfair. You stand alone!

Seriously, though, I dont think it's that hard. As a child, Father spent a lot of time at our house. He often went on our weekend getaways, too. He was just another friend and good for keeping us all clean, both in speech and in thought, and we had a lot of fun together. I can't get our priest to come for dinner now. He's probably scared we're going to be an annoyance if not a threat to his position.

I think the problem today is an increased rather than lessened sense of class distinction. The priest/pastor is seen as a servant rather than a leader, an object of charity and a wet blanket. The pastor/priest all too often sees us laymen as an impediment to his duties if not outright hypocrites he'd rather avoid.

Faults on both sides. Your pastor is a man like you. His struggles are your struggles. Just be friendly.

Oh, and don't correct his theology. Or show him bikini pics. That leaves a pretty broad area of stuff you can do together.
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Re: Loving your pastor

Post by coco » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:11 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:23 pm
Holy s***, that's a lot of posts, Coco. Early Gooseian levels of conversation for one. Actually, that's unfair. You stand alone!
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Re: Loving your pastor

Post by UncleBob » Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:16 pm

Today, NPR actually had a story about why Pastors are no longer respected like they once were.
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Re: Loving your pastor

Post by DepartedLight » Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:29 pm

coco wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:40 am
A positive application: Go to lunch with your pastor sometime. Talk about normal stuff.
Even cobs? Man. You really have come a long way on this.

The pastor is my wingman from FredS really says it all. After that the next half dozen posts were difficult to understand.
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Feel free to use that quote in your signature. Stanley76 » 22 Feb 2019 21:50

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Re: Loving your pastor

Post by JMG » Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:30 pm

coco wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:41 am
FredS wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:25 am
... Ministers are certainly called to be set apart and (perhaps unfairly) held to a higher standard, but they put their pants on one leg at a time just like the rest of us.
We absolutely should hold pastors to a high standard, this standard:

1 Timothy 3:1–7

"The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. [2] Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, [3] not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. [4] He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, [5] for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? [6] He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. [7] Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil."

That being said, most of the gossip that is said about pastors does not involve a violation of the Ten Commandments, but a violation of less-than-biblical cultural standards. Worse, these complaints are not made known to the one person who really needs to know about them, at least until it is too late. You should help your pastor, your brother, reach higher levels of righteousness, but talking behind his back isn't going to get him there.
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Re: Loving your pastor

Post by coco » Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:09 pm

DepartedLight wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:29 pm
coco wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:40 am
A positive application: Go to lunch with your pastor sometime. Talk about normal stuff.
Even cobs? Man. You really have come a long way on this.

The pastor is my wingman from FredS really says it all. After that the next half dozen posts were difficult to understand.
I'm sure your priest would talk with you about cobs. I'm not sure how many rosaries it would involve.
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Re: Loving your pastor

Post by Fainn » Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:16 pm

I only like my pastor as a friend.
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Re: Loving your pastor

Post by DepartedLight » Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:37 pm

coco wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:09 pm
DepartedLight wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:29 pm
coco wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:40 am
A positive application: Go to lunch with your pastor sometime. Talk about normal stuff.
Even cobs? Man. You really have come a long way on this.

The pastor is my wingman from FredS really says it all. After that the next half dozen posts were difficult to understand.
I'm sure your priest would talk with you about cobs. I'm not sure how many rosaries it would involve.
He's a cigar guy.
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Feel free to use that quote in your signature. Stanley76 » 22 Feb 2019 21:50

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Re: Loving your pastor

Post by Stanley76 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 1:11 am

My pastor is a close friend. He doesn't smoke or drink (FWB) but he does collect Swiss Army knives and Godzilla statues. He's also been known to flip over a table or throw things during a sermon to wake everybody up. A great guy and a good friend.
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Re: Loving your pastor

Post by coco » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:55 am

There is a lady at the church that drives by the pastor's house every day. She stops by the curb for a minute or two and prays for him and then drives off. I'm sure that it is encouraging to him to have a visual reminder that someone is praying for him every day.
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