Biblical inerrancy with respect to the creation narratives

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Joshoowah
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Re: Biblical inerrancy with respect to the creation narratives

Post by Joshoowah » Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:29 am

michigander wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:19 am
Joshoowah wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:32 am
michigander wrote:This lecture by John Lennox offers a perspective that holds to the inerrancy of scripture while allowing for an old earth view.

His lecture starts at 10 minutes, but the introduction is entertaining if you're so inclined to listen. I believe his lecture is only about 45 minutes and then there is a Q&A.
Yeah, Lennox is good. There's also Polkinghorne, John Walton (world renowned expert in Ancient Near Eastern culture), Peter Enns, and so many others. To me, it just shows there is room for disagreement in this whole "all or nothing" type of debate. Our early church theologians disagreed and yet remained in communion. We could learn a lot from that.

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I agree.

I think there's also value in being open minded for at least two other reasons:

1) It's not a good idea to be dogmatic about things that aren't central to our faith.
1.a) As science discovers new things we need to be open to adjusting our thinking without feeling like it's compromising our belief system (referene John Lennox's
discussion of the church's previous stance on an earth centered universe.)
2) Being dogmatic over issues that conflict with science unnecessarily projects the premise that in order to become a Christian one must adopt these (non-essential) beliefs (e.g. a young earth or even a Geometric Universe if this was 1500 years ago).

That's deeper than I have ever wanted to wade into a Theological discussion, and clearly I'm in over my head.

So to quote Forrest: "that's all I have to say about that".
Abso-freaking-lutely! I've been teaching this and screaming this for over a decade now. To give an example, I had one student last year (a senior), who had been attending our school since kindergarten, told me this, "So much of what we have discussed this year has helped me make sense of Christianity, but one thing I cannot get over and is holding me back is the creation debate and its battle against science." This particular student was Japanese, and I won't bore anyone here in this thread what Christianity is seen as in most of Japan. That student for years has been told certain things about creation, science, etc., until he got to my class, his last class and his only class with me. I spent all semester trying to help re-shape the sphere so that he could see that many in the world are in agreement with him. My gift to him on graduation day was a book written by a Japanese friend of mine, who just got their PhD in biblical studies, about the intersection of faith and science. What was even better was that my friend had included a Japanese translation.

This type of dogmatism on certain issues is, indeed, a problem.
"For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose?" Philippians 1:21-22

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Re: Biblical inerrancy with respect to the creation narratives

Post by Del » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:55 pm

Joshoowah wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:32 am
michigander wrote:This lecture by John Lennox offers a perspective that holds to the inerrancy of scripture while allowing for an old earth view.

His lecture starts at 10 minutes, but the introduction is entertaining if you're so inclined to listen. I believe his lecture is only about 45 minutes and then there is a Q&A.
Yeah, Lennox is good. There's also Polkinghorne, John Walton (world renowned expert in Ancient Near Eastern culture), Peter Enns, and so many others. To me, it just shows there is room for disagreement in this whole "all or nothing" type of debate. Our early church theologians disagreed and yet remained in communion. We could learn a lot from that.

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It's only the Fundamentalist tradition which insists that "inerrancy" must apply entirely to the literal sense.

When Apostolic Christians talked about the "inerrancy" of Scripture, they mean that the text of Scripture is inspired by God -- and also, that the text has been handed down faithfully to us. Thus, we are able to trust the source as we ponder and discern its meaning.

To be honest, Genesis 1 would be a lot less revealing if it were merely an exposition of quantum mechanics and astrophysics. It is the work of scientists to discover precisely how the universe was created (Big Bang and all) -- but on God can reveal why He gave us a creation, instead of a material void.

There is no error in the poetic images of Genesis 1. Just as there is no error in the prophetic poetry of Revelation. Our error comes when we try to read the poetic Scriptures too literally, and fail to see the truths that God wants us to see.

Apostolic Christians are not fooled into thinking that Revelation is a prophecy of events to come. We see the candles and the scrolls and the incense in John's vision, and we realize that this book is an image of what is happening in heaven -- and all of the spiritual warfare that is hidden -- every time we worship at the Mass and Divine Liturgy.
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Re: Biblical inerrancy with respect to the creation narratives

Post by ChildOfGod » Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:55 pm

smokadoro wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:21 am
From another recent thread:
a friend wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 12:47 pm
The matter of the conflict (or not) between science and scripture (young earth/old earth, evolution, etc.) is at its root a question regarding the matter of biblical inerrancy, an issue that was/is central to Protestant Fundamentalist Christianity.
  1. The Bible is the inspired word of God and is completely free from errors in every topic on which it speaks.
  2. The universe is approximately 13.8 billion years old, the Earth is approximately 4.2 billion years old, and God created all of it in six literal "yom".
The difference between young earth and old earth perspectives is one of differing biblical interpretation, not more pure/less pure stances on biblical inerrancy.
I've been able to rather easily do that as well - at times I think God created the Universe in six days such that it looks like it's approximately 13.8 billion years old - like an author, there's no reason he had to start our story at any particular time - He's not bound by the rules of the physical universe, He established them.

I had a discussion about this with Rusty once in PM. Its not something "I preach", nor something anyone else need bother with, but a mental convenience of thought to exist as a full participant in both Biblically literal circles and scientific circles. I do not know if God approves but I don't think He's taken offense.
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Re: Biblical inerrancy with respect to the creation narratives

Post by tuttle » Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:49 am

hugodrax wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:13 am
Who lit the tuttle Beacon?
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