#39 - First Bulldog!

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#39 - First Bulldog!

Post by BrianMadsen » Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:47 pm

Hello guys
This is the first bulldog I've made, and i think it came out pretty good!
Just wanted to share it with you. The white ring is camel bone.
Next stop - POY prototype! 8)
Have a great weekend!

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Re: #39 - First Bulldog!

Post by FredS » Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:54 pm

Nice. I can't imagine a shape with more difficult transitions between bowl and shank - on both top and bottom, the way the bottom wraps to the front of the bowl - but you've pulled it off.

I particularly like the lines of the stem when viewed from above. The 'side saddle' if you will.
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Re: #39 - First Bulldog!

Post by Rusty » Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:56 pm

Nice pipe. But are you American? Or have you adopted the American rebellious renaming of shapes?
It's actually a Straight Rhodesian. What do the Danes call the shape?

I suppose the answer might be that you're bilingual and talking the language of your potential customers.
Try and remember that these folks are the ones that are 'sentencing you' to 320-purgatory. 8O
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Re: #39 - First Bulldog!

Post by Pepik » Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:06 pm

Excellent!
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Re: #39 - First Bulldog!

Post by Skip » Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:24 pm

Rusty wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:56 pm
Nice pipe. But are you American? Or have you adopted the American rebellious renaming of shapes?
It's actually a Straight Rhodesian. What do the Danes call the shape?

I suppose the answer might be that you're bilingual and talking the language of your potential customers.
Try and remember that these folks are the ones that are 'sentencing you' to 320-purgatory. 8O
You'll have to forgive him; he's from Canada.
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Re: #39 - First Bulldog!

Post by BrianMadsen » Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:47 pm

With a diamond shank, it has always been a bulldog. With a round shank, it has always been a rhodesian. That rule counts in every country

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Re: #39 - First Bulldog!

Post by Rusty » Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:54 pm

BrianMadsen wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:47 pm
With a diamond shank, it has always been a bulldog. With a round shank, it has always been a rhodesian. That rule counts in every country
Brian, that's the new American definition since 2008.
Here is ample evidence that that it is a very recent renaming that changed the shape names and makes the naming inconsistent with the traditional British pipe makers.
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Re: #39 - First Bulldog!

Post by BrianMadsen » Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:02 pm

I must be half American then, or something weird. Nobody here in Denmark would ever call it a rhodesian

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Re: #39 - First Bulldog!

Post by Rusty » Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:14 pm

BrianMadsen wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:02 pm
I must be half American then, or something weird. Nobody here in Denmark would ever call it a rhodesian
Your point eg "With a diamond shank, it has always been a bulldog. With a round shank, it has always been a rhodesian. That rule counts in every country" was just falsified. It's a misunderstanding. AFAIK the Brits haven't changed their naming and that's the tradition still. But there is a story on the American side and it's actually told in pipe writeups on Smokingpipes.

https://www.smokingpipes.com/pipes/new/ ... t_ID=60225

There are also older writeups where the shape naming is still in accord with the British naming.

https://www.smokingpipes.com/pipes/esta ... _id=141947

The Americans are dominant on the web and esp. on things concerning pipes. We're all American now. But some of us think that we really shouldn't give in quite so easily to editing out a tradition esp. when it's still alive and active. We can live with both and that preserves the tradition and acknowledges the American desire to redefine things for us. There is always a risk that we forget or define away our own traditions and we should never give into that.
Last edited by Rusty on Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: #39 - First Bulldog!

Post by durangopipe » Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:20 pm

To me, an American, it's a saddle stem bulldog and a very fine one at that!
Beautiful pipe, Brian. I can't wait to see the CPS POY author prototype. I'm certain it will be gorgeous.
Last edited by durangopipe on Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: #39 - First Bulldog!

Post by BrianMadsen » Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:21 pm

I have never heard of that until now, and I find it very surprising. But, did Dunhill set the full standard on shape naming back then, or did they just invent their own system?

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Re: #39 - First Bulldog!

Post by BrianMadsen » Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:22 pm

durangopipe wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:20 pm
To me, an American, it's a saddle stem bulldog and a very fine one at that!
Beautiful pipe, Brian. I can't wait to see the CPS POY author prototype. I'm certain it will be gorgeous.
Thanks!

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Re: #39 - First Bulldog!

Post by Rusty » Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:30 pm

BrianMadsen wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:21 pm
I have never heard of that until now, and I find it very surprising. But, did Dunhill set the full standard on shape naming back then, or did they just invent their own system?
You will notice that it wasn't just Dunhill. From looking at old catalogs it appears that this is much larger than Dunhill. That was the shape naming for the Brits. The Rhodesian very likely was created out of the Bulldog but they did and do distinguish the shapes and it has nothing to do with the shank configuration.
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Re: #39 - First Bulldog!

Post by BrianMadsen » Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:35 pm

That is weird, because the shank is really the only thing that set the shapes apart. I can easily understand why the shape names were changed

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Re: #39 - First Bulldog!

Post by Rusty » Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:42 pm

BrianMadsen wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:35 pm
That is weird, because the shank is really the only thing that set the shapes apart. I can easily understand why the shape names were changed
That's exactly the American argument. But in fact that's not true. You've adopted the American redefinition and you're thinking in terms of that. You were just telling me that it has always been the definition. I provided evidence that this is not true. I think the shapes and their names pre-date Dunhill, but they're very likely British, so Dunhill probably didn't define the shapes, the names or the tradition. Dunhill was late on the scene actually. But these old pipe making companies are a link to our shared traditions. We never saw ISO/ANSI or any other standards body take on pipes and standardize anything. This is all from the 19th century. The really nice thing is that there is something more to learn about our shared traditions.

We lost an articulate historian for pipes and shapes in Jacques Cole who passed away in 2014. But I'll bet he would have something to say. When a Canadian tells you to be cautious about accepting everything the Americans tell us you should listen. As if a European needs to reminded of that! But you have been reminded.
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Re: #39 - First Bulldog!

Post by Skip » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:50 pm

Rusty wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:42 pm
BrianMadsen wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:35 pm
That is weird, because the shank is really the only thing that set the shapes apart. I can easily understand why the shape names were changed
That's exactly the American argument. But in fact that's not true. You've adopted the American redefinition and you're thinking in terms of that. You were just telling me that it has always been the definition. I provided evidence that this is not true. I think the shapes and their names pre-date Dunhill, but they're very likely British, so Dunhill probably didn't define the shapes, the names or the tradition. Dunhill was late on the scene actually. But these old pipe making companies are a link to our shared traditions. We never saw ISO/ANSI or any other standards body take on pipes and standardize anything. This is all from the 19th century. The really nice thing is that there is something more to learn about our shared traditions.

We lost an articulate historian for pipes and shapes in Jacques Cole who passed away in 2014. But I'll bet he would have something to say. When a Canadian tells you to be cautious about accepting everything the Americans tell us you should listen. As if a European needs to reminded of that! But you have been reminded.
What if an Irishman tells you to be cautious about a Canadian telling you to be cautious about accepting everything the Americans tell you? I think I might be cautious. And I'm not sure Rusty's Canadian. I'd be cautious there. All we have is his word for it.
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Re: #39 - First Bulldog!

Post by jruegg » Sat Mar 11, 2017 5:56 pm

nice
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Re: #39 - First Bulldog!

Post by durangopipe » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:15 pm

You'd probably be wise to avoid naming any of your own, unique shapes a "Filioque," Brian. At least not here.
I have a Tinsky freehand coming that I think I'll call a turned stem, black & tan Filioque just to see what happens.

Regardless, your Bulldesian is just plain gorgeous.
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Re: #39 - First Bulldog!

Post by wosbald » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:16 pm

+JMJ+

IIRC, there was something about Dunhill calling the Squat Bulldog a "Rhodesian" and the Stacked Bulldog a "Scandinavian". FWIW.

Regardless, nice pipe — right nice pipe — any way you slice it.
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Re: #39 - First Bulldog!

Post by UncleBob » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:34 pm

Old GBD catalog (1961) with a bent bulldog and a bent Rhodesian.

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