The Catholic Church in Australia

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Post by wosbald » Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:49 am

+JMJ+
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Re: The Catholic Church in Australia

Post by wosbald » Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:03 am

+JMJ+

Commission in Australia says priests should report abuse heard in confession
Image
A priest hears a confession. (Credit: CNS photo/Mike Crupi, Catholic Courier.)

Australia's Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse says the right to practice one’s religious beliefs “must accommodate civil society’s obligation to provide for the safety of all and, in particular, children’s safety from sexual abuse.” Archbishop Denis Hart of Melbourne, the president of the Australian Catholic Bishops' Conference, said in a statement the inviolability of the seal of confession is a “fundamental part of the freedom of religion.”

A government commission in Australia on Monday said Catholic priests must violate the seal of confession if they hear about the sexual abuse of children.

The Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse was established in 2013 to investigate how institutions like schools, churches, sports clubs and government organizations have responded to allegations and instances of child sexual abuse.

On Monday, it issued its report on criminal justice, including 85 recommendations for new legal standards.

Recommendation number 35 said laws on reporting sexual abuse of children “should exclude any existing excuse, protection or privilege in relation to religious confessions.”

Image
Recommendation No. 35 of the royal commission Report on Criminal Justice. (Credit: Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse.)


The commission’s report said the right to practice one’s religious beliefs “must accommodate civil society’s obligation to provide for the safety of all and, in particular, children’s safety from sexual abuse.” …
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Re: The Catholic Church in Australia

Post by Onyx » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:53 pm

wosbald wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:03 am
+JMJ+

Commission in Australia says priests should report abuse heard in confession
Image
A priest hears a confession. (Credit: CNS photo/Mike Crupi, Catholic Courier.)

Australia's Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse says the right to practice one’s religious beliefs “must accommodate civil society’s obligation to provide for the safety of all and, in particular, children’s safety from sexual abuse.” Archbishop Denis Hart of Melbourne, the president of the Australian Catholic Bishops' Conference, said in a statement the inviolability of the seal of confession is a “fundamental part of the freedom of religion.”

A government commission in Australia on Monday said Catholic priests must violate the seal of confession if they hear about the sexual abuse of children.

The Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse was established in 2013 to investigate how institutions like schools, churches, sports clubs and government organizations have responded to allegations and instances of child sexual abuse.

On Monday, it issued its report on criminal justice, including 85 recommendations for new legal standards.

Recommendation number 35 said laws on reporting sexual abuse of children “should exclude any existing excuse, protection or privilege in relation to religious confessions.”

Image
Recommendation No. 35 of the royal commission Report on Criminal Justice. (Credit: Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse.)


The commission’s report said the right to practice one’s religious beliefs “must accommodate civil society’s obligation to provide for the safety of all and, in particular, children’s safety from sexual abuse.” …
Yeah, I understand why the priests won't violate the privacy of the confessional. And I also respect their logical reasoning for this - besides the religious sanctity aspect which I guess they feel unable to review even if they wanted to.

BUT, so great has been the betrayal, we can simply no longer see the priesthood or confessional as a special case under law. They're in the same position as a school teacher, a corporate personnel manager, or a medical practitioner... with respect to knowledge of a crime. If any of those professionals learn of child sexual abuse and fail to report it, they are accountable.

In practice I think this means some priests may go to prison for this. I guess they'll stick to their faith and be willing to pay a price. Oh well, that's all pretty far down the list of things concerning Aussies with respect to matters before the Commission.

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Re: The Catholic Church in Australia

Post by Thunktank » Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:35 pm

Onyx wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:53 pm
wosbald wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:03 am
+JMJ+

Commission in Australia says priests should report abuse heard in confession
Image
A priest hears a confession. (Credit: CNS photo/Mike Crupi, Catholic Courier.)

Australia's Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse says the right to practice one’s religious beliefs “must accommodate civil society’s obligation to provide for the safety of all and, in particular, children’s safety from sexual abuse.” Archbishop Denis Hart of Melbourne, the president of the Australian Catholic Bishops' Conference, said in a statement the inviolability of the seal of confession is a “fundamental part of the freedom of religion.”

A government commission in Australia on Monday said Catholic priests must violate the seal of confession if they hear about the sexual abuse of children.

The Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse was established in 2013 to investigate how institutions like schools, churches, sports clubs and government organizations have responded to allegations and instances of child sexual abuse.

On Monday, it issued its report on criminal justice, including 85 recommendations for new legal standards.

Recommendation number 35 said laws on reporting sexual abuse of children “should exclude any existing excuse, protection or privilege in relation to religious confessions.”

Image
Recommendation No. 35 of the royal commission Report on Criminal Justice. (Credit: Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse.)


The commission’s report said the right to practice one’s religious beliefs “must accommodate civil society’s obligation to provide for the safety of all and, in particular, children’s safety from sexual abuse.” …
Yeah, I understand why the priests won't violate the privacy of the confessional. And I also respect their logical reasoning for this - besides the religious sanctity aspect which I guess they feel unable to review even if they wanted to.

BUT, so great has been the betrayal, we can simply no longer see the priesthood or confessional as a special case under law. They're in the same position as a school teacher, a corporate personnel manager, or a medical practitioner... with respect to knowledge of a crime. If any of those professionals learn of child sexual abuse and fail to report it, they are accountable.

In practice I think this means some priests may go to prison for this. I guess they'll stick to their faith and be willing to pay a price. Oh well, that's all pretty far down the list of things concerning Aussies with respect to matters before the Commission.
The commission might instead require the church to train priests how to deal with these crimes in the most effective way possible within the rules of the confessional. The seal of confession simply cannot be broken, it doesn't belong to the priest, to the penitent or the bishops. The function of priests in a confession aren't like that of school teachers, so the secular powers are simply wrong to make that comparison. There is no comparison here. But this whole thing is horribly wrong and messy. The state really needs to ask itself if jailing a priest for doing his job is the best way to deal with the problem everyone is facing including the church. There isn't even a "defense" the church can make here. There isn't a defense a priest can make for himself when he hears a confession. A penitent cannot even tell a priest to report him in confessional and expect the priest to do so, he must tell him outside confession. It is what it is, it can't be changed anymore than we can change our ability to take God to court and sue Him. Australia can jail God's sacramental priests, but how is that freedom of religion? There are some things the state simply doesn't have power over. They can't stop hurricanes and they can't keep people from talking to God.

People who don't understand sacramental theology have a hard time with this, if they don't believe, they really have a hard time with it. Hence the need for freedom of religion.
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” -Yoda

“I grew up in a church with Ned Flanders. Down to the mustache. But so did a bunch of people I assume, which makes it so fun-diddly-unny.” -tuttle

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Re: The Catholic Church in Australia

Post by Onyx » Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:10 pm

Thunktank wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:35 pm
Onyx wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:53 pm
wosbald wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:03 am
+JMJ+

Commission in Australia says priests should report abuse heard in confession
Image
A priest hears a confession. (Credit: CNS photo/Mike Crupi, Catholic Courier.)

Australia's Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse says the right to practice one’s religious beliefs “must accommodate civil society’s obligation to provide for the safety of all and, in particular, children’s safety from sexual abuse.” Archbishop Denis Hart of Melbourne, the president of the Australian Catholic Bishops' Conference, said in a statement the inviolability of the seal of confession is a “fundamental part of the freedom of religion.”

A government commission in Australia on Monday said Catholic priests must violate the seal of confession if they hear about the sexual abuse of children.

The Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse was established in 2013 to investigate how institutions like schools, churches, sports clubs and government organizations have responded to allegations and instances of child sexual abuse.

On Monday, it issued its report on criminal justice, including 85 recommendations for new legal standards.

Recommendation number 35 said laws on reporting sexual abuse of children “should exclude any existing excuse, protection or privilege in relation to religious confessions.”

Image
Recommendation No. 35 of the royal commission Report on Criminal Justice. (Credit: Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse.)


The commission’s report said the right to practice one’s religious beliefs “must accommodate civil society’s obligation to provide for the safety of all and, in particular, children’s safety from sexual abuse.” …
Yeah, I understand why the priests won't violate the privacy of the confessional. And I also respect their logical reasoning for this - besides the religious sanctity aspect which I guess they feel unable to review even if they wanted to.

BUT, so great has been the betrayal, we can simply no longer see the priesthood or confessional as a special case under law. They're in the same position as a school teacher, a corporate personnel manager, or a medical practitioner... with respect to knowledge of a crime. If any of those professionals learn of child sexual abuse and fail to report it, they are accountable.

In practice I think this means some priests may go to prison for this. I guess they'll stick to their faith and be willing to pay a price. Oh well, that's all pretty far down the list of things concerning Aussies with respect to matters before the Commission.
The commission might instead require the church to train priests how to deal with these crimes in the most effective way possible within the rules of the confessional. The seal of confession simply cannot be broken, it doesn't belong to the priest, to the penitent or the bishops. The function of priests in a confession aren't like that of school teachers, so the secular powers are simply wrong to make that comparison. There is no comparison here. But this whole thing is horribly wrong and messy. The state really needs to ask itself if jailing a priest for doing his job is the best way to deal with the problem everyone is facing including the church. There isn't even a "defense" the church can make here. There isn't a defense a priest can make for himself when he hears a confession. A penitent cannot even tell a priest to report him in confessional and expect the priest to do so, he must tell him outside confession. It is what it is, it can't be changed anymore than we can change our ability to take God to court and sue Him. Australia can jail God's sacramental priests, but how is that freedom of religion? There are some things the state simply doesn't have power over. They can't stop hurricanes and they can't keep people from talking to God.

People who don't understand sacramental theology have a hard time with this, if they don't believe, they really have a hard time with it. Hence the need for freedom of religion.
Yeah, but we tried that. And hundreds of priests raped thousands of children. Then hundreds of other priests, bishops, administrators, and Catholic police groups lied about it. I know your argument. But it failed the people it claimed to serve.

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Re: The Catholic Church in Australia

Post by Thunktank » Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:27 pm

Onyx wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:10 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:35 pm
Onyx wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:53 pm
wosbald wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:03 am
+JMJ+

Commission in Australia says priests should report abuse heard in confession
Image
A priest hears a confession. (Credit: CNS photo/Mike Crupi, Catholic Courier.)

Australia's Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse says the right to practice one’s religious beliefs “must accommodate civil society’s obligation to provide for the safety of all and, in particular, children’s safety from sexual abuse.” Archbishop Denis Hart of Melbourne, the president of the Australian Catholic Bishops' Conference, said in a statement the inviolability of the seal of confession is a “fundamental part of the freedom of religion.”

A government commission in Australia on Monday said Catholic priests must violate the seal of confession if they hear about the sexual abuse of children.

The Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse was established in 2013 to investigate how institutions like schools, churches, sports clubs and government organizations have responded to allegations and instances of child sexual abuse.

On Monday, it issued its report on criminal justice, including 85 recommendations for new legal standards.

Recommendation number 35 said laws on reporting sexual abuse of children “should exclude any existing excuse, protection or privilege in relation to religious confessions.”

Image
Recommendation No. 35 of the royal commission Report on Criminal Justice. (Credit: Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse.)


The commission’s report said the right to practice one’s religious beliefs “must accommodate civil society’s obligation to provide for the safety of all and, in particular, children’s safety from sexual abuse.” …
Yeah, I understand why the priests won't violate the privacy of the confessional. And I also respect their logical reasoning for this - besides the religious sanctity aspect which I guess they feel unable to review even if they wanted to.

BUT, so great has been the betrayal, we can simply no longer see the priesthood or confessional as a special case under law. They're in the same position as a school teacher, a corporate personnel manager, or a medical practitioner... with respect to knowledge of a crime. If any of those professionals learn of child sexual abuse and fail to report it, they are accountable.

In practice I think this means some priests may go to prison for this. I guess they'll stick to their faith and be willing to pay a price. Oh well, that's all pretty far down the list of things concerning Aussies with respect to matters before the Commission.
The commission might instead require the church to train priests how to deal with these crimes in the most effective way possible within the rules of the confessional. The seal of confession simply cannot be broken, it doesn't belong to the priest, to the penitent or the bishops. The function of priests in a confession aren't like that of school teachers, so the secular powers are simply wrong to make that comparison. There is no comparison here. But this whole thing is horribly wrong and messy. The state really needs to ask itself if jailing a priest for doing his job is the best way to deal with the problem everyone is facing including the church. There isn't even a "defense" the church can make here. There isn't a defense a priest can make for himself when he hears a confession. A penitent cannot even tell a priest to report him in confessional and expect the priest to do so, he must tell him outside confession. It is what it is, it can't be changed anymore than we can change our ability to take God to court and sue Him. Australia can jail God's sacramental priests, but how is that freedom of religion? There are some things the state simply doesn't have power over. They can't stop hurricanes and they can't keep people from talking to God.

People who don't understand sacramental theology have a hard time with this, if they don't believe, they really have a hard time with it. Hence the need for freedom of religion.
Yeah, but we tried that. And hundreds of priests raped thousands of children. Then hundreds of other priests, bishops, administrators, and Catholic police groups lied about it. I know your argument. But it failed the people it claimed to serve.
I honestly don't know what's been tried there, entirely. I'm only speaking to the Seal of Confession, how impossible it is for the state to interfere with that successfully and how that fundamentally undermines freedom of religion. I can't say much about all the things gone wrong outside of that, things that should have been handled better. Time and again, when churches fail, become corrupt and people sin, bad things happen in and too the church and the communities they serve. It's terrible. There's really no defense or excuse for it. I just don't want to see good intentions go badly because folks start barking up the wrong tree.

I suspect priests could be trained, in some way, to help and protect victims even while honoring the Seal. To demand priests to spill the beans could actually have the opposite effect of what they're looking for. To send a message that talking to God will get you in trouble, will only drive evil further into darkness. Of course, the church must work very hard to have qualified and good men as priests.
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” -Yoda

“I grew up in a church with Ned Flanders. Down to the mustache. But so did a bunch of people I assume, which makes it so fun-diddly-unny.” -tuttle

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Re: The Catholic Church in Australia

Post by Onyx » Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:06 pm

Thunktank wrote:
Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:27 pm

I honestly don't know what's been tried there, entirely. I'm only speaking to the Seal of Confession, how impossible it is for the state to interfere with that successfully and how that fundamentally undermines freedom of religion. I can't say much about all the things gone wrong outside of that, things that should have been handled better. Time and again, when churches fail, become corrupt and people sin, bad things happen in and too the church and the communities they serve. It's terrible. There's really no defense or excuse for it. I just don't want to see good intentions go badly because folks start barking up the wrong tree.

I suspect priests could be trained, in some way, to help and protect victims even while honoring the Seal. To demand priests to spill the beans could actually have the opposite effect of what they're looking for. To send a message that talking to God will get you in trouble, will only drive evil further into darkness. Of course, the church must work very hard to have qualified and good men as priests.
That's just not it. The best logical argument for respecting the privacy of confession (relating to this issue) is that - people are more likely to confess if they trust the privacy... and people are more likely to get help if they confess. That's a good argument. It's just that when we lifted the lid, we found that the opposite was happening - the abusers were being protected and allowed to continue.

It failed because the church (apparently) had an ineffective way of understanding what was going on. If you understand the child abuse through the prism of "sin" and "forgiveness", then you get massive problems of re-offending. Because no matter how remorseful these guys might be at the confessional, they apparently can't help themselves doing it again and again and again. Understanding the issue through the prism of "crime" and "punishment" may be very flawed also, but it does have better mechanisms for protecting the children. And secondly, we found that the Church had an second motive which perverted the priority of protecting the children. The church was motivated to protect the Church. Understandable perhaps, but in the context of this issue, it resulted in countless more abuses being allowed to continue.

But this is so often the response of ideologies that fail at something (not necessarily fail at everything... but the Catholic Church certainly failed on this issue of child abuse over generations) - They say, the solution is to be MORE like we were already being... we were on the right track, but our failing was that we were not Catholic enough! It makes perfect sense to those who are totally invested in that ideology. It's madness to everyone else. The churches were the last organizations to be dragged kicking and screaming into the realization that this was a serious issue. As they say, it's not just the crime, it's the coverup. This demolishes the argument that the privacy of the confessional might actually help to protect the children. We already know that the church has consistently used their practices of privacy to protect the perpetrators and allow continued abuse.

As for freedom of religion, it's not absolute. Certainly not in Australia. You don't get to hide ongoing crimes against children, no matter your religious reasons. In practice, I don't expect that priests will all be willing to violate the privacy of the confessional. Anyone who is acquainted with the church understands that some priests (maybe all priests) are unable to violate this. Nevertheless, they may be open to prosecution if they withhold knowledge of abuse.

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Re: The Catholic Church in Australia

Post by Thunktank » Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:56 pm

Well Onyx, I really can't disagree with a word you said in your last post. There's nothing I can say to make the Catholic Church in Australia better. There is widespread corruption and coverup and it's the opposite of what should be. I cannot blame the authorities who are looking for ways to regulate the church, the actions of many in the church has forced their hand. Every time I go to mass and open the bulletin I see reminders of our own recent past with sexual abuse here as well. It's embarrassing. The very "institution" that's supposed to be the opposite of such evil is enabling it through some of her most sacred practices. And just like any other institution, it requires real embrace of the ideal values and morals to bring change. The church by in large is luke warm though. It's evident over and over again. The people most angry at the church demanding change are the very people the church needs, IMO.
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Re: The Catholic Church in Australia

Post by wosbald » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:37 am

+JMJ+

These priests were martyred for refusing to violate the seal of confession
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(Credit: romana klee via Flickr (CC BY-SA 2.0))

Priests take the solemnity of the seal of confession very seriously; these four priests who died protecting it are witnesses to the extreme lengths to which priests are willing to go to protect the seal of confession.

DENVER, Colorado - In recent years, some Catholics have been concerned by pushes from governments in locations such as Louisiana and Australia who challenge the secrecy of the sacrament of confession, asking that priests betray the solemnity of penitents’ confessions when they hear of serious crimes in the confessional.

However, Catholics should not be afraid, because keeping the secrecy of the sacrament of confession is one of the most important promises priests make.

The code of canon law states that “the sacramental seal is inviolable; therefore it is absolutely forbidden for a confessor to betray in any way a penitent in words or in any manner and for any reason.” Priests who violate this seal of confession are automatically excommunicated.

Priests take this solemnity of the seal of confession very seriously; these four priests who died protecting it are witnesses to the extreme lengths to which priests are willing to go to protect the seal of confession. …
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Re: The Catholic Church in Australia

Post by Del » Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:01 am

If government intends to enforce laws that violate the confessional, priests will go back to insisting upon using a confessional with a privacy screen.

A priest may then honestly comply with the law. "I heard the confession of a murderer last week. I do not know who it was who confessed to the crime, for he were whispering behind the screen. Nor did he mention the name of the victim. This is all that I know."
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Re: The Catholic Church in Australia

Post by wosbald » Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:52 pm

+JMJ+

Australian bishops warn new espionage law could require Catholics to register as ‘foreign agents’
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Bishop Robert McGuckin. (Credit: Diocese of Toowoomba.)

Catholics could be forced to register as foreign agents in Australia if a new bill meant to crack down on espionage and political interference by other countries becomes law, the country’s bishops argued on Tuesday.

“The Catholic Church in Australia is made up of millions of Australian citizens who practice their faith, and they are not beholden to a foreign power,” said Bishop Robert McGuckin of Toowoomba.

He was speaking to the Australian parliament’s Intelligence and Security Committee about the proposed legislation, which would require those who act on behalf of foreign powers to register with the government or face criminal charges.

“The exemption for religion proposed in clause 27 is drafted based on the incorrect belief that the Catholic Church in Australia acts on behalf of a foreign government, i.e. Vatican City State,” the Australian Catholic Bishops’ Conference said in a submission to the committee.

“Given the Catholic Church in Australia does not act on behalf of a foreign government, the clause would confer no exemption on members of the Catholic Church in Australia,” the bishops continued.

The bishops’ conference statement said the bill was drafted with “extraordinary breadth,” adding that terms “such as ‘foreign principal,’ ‘lobby,’ ‘communications activity,’ or ‘donor activity’ are very broad, general and unqualified, which means there is great potential to catch innocent and unintended persons and behavior, and are of doubtful utility and effectiveness.”

McGuckin said it seems that every Catholic involved in advocacy may need to register and report.

[…]
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Re: The Catholic Church in Australia

Post by wosbald » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:07 pm

+JMJ+

Australian premier calls for national discussion on confessional seal
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(Credit: Pixabay/CC0 Creative Commons license.)

What legal protections priests should have in the confessional needs to be decided on the national level in Australia, according to the premier of the eastern state of New South Wales.

The government of the state — which includes Australia’s largest city, Sydney — is instituting a range of new laws targeting child abuse in response to the final report of the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse released last year.

[…]

The commission issued several suggestions concerning the Catholic Church, including requiring priests to report any sexual abuse of children that is confessed during the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

The “seal of confession” is considered inviolable in Catholicism, and any priest who breaks it faces excommunication.

New South Wales Premier Gladys Berejiklian said the question of the seal of confession would not be included within the new state laws and should be handled at a national level: “We believe it is beyond the boundaries of any one state.”

“Our response to that recommendation is to take it through the COAG process, we believe that is the best way to deal with it,” she said. “They’re complex issues that need to be balanced with what people believe to be religious freedoms.”

The Council of Australian Governments (COAG) brings together the federal government, the state and territorial governments, and the Australian Local Government Association to coordinate government activities.

[…]

The Church in New South Wales did not immediately respond to the comments of the premier, but during his Easter Sunday homily, Sydney Archbishop Anthony Fisher spoke about “powerful interests” seeking to marginalize religious believers.

“We cannot take the freedom to hold and practice our beliefs for granted, even here in Australia,” Fisher said on April 1.

“We may not always be as free as we are now to evangelize and baptize as Jesus mandated at the first Easter,” he said.

Turning to the issue of the seal of confession, the archbishop said it was “threatened today both by neglect and attack.”

“But priests will, we know, suffer punishment, even martyrdom, rather than break the seal of Confession,” Fisher said, adding “no earthly authority may enter” the meeting of confessor and penitent.

[…]
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Re: The Catholic Church in Australia

Post by hugodrax » Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:40 am

I didn't know Australians confessed. I'd always thought they'd simply been found guilty.
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Re: The Catholic Church in Australia

Post by UncleBob » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:08 am

hugodrax wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:40 am
I didn't know Australians confessed. I'd always thought they'd simply been found guilty.
IKR?

Seriously, though, I like how they are already playing the martyr card.
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Re: The Catholic Church in Australia

Post by hugodrax » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:47 am

UncleBob wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:08 am
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:40 am
I didn't know Australians confessed. I'd always thought they'd simply been found guilty.
IKR?

Seriously, though, I like how they are already playing the martyr card.
So you and wosbald are both flying at half chub. Interesting.
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UncleBob
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Re: The Catholic Church in Australia

Post by UncleBob » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:05 am

hugodrax wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:47 am
UncleBob wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:08 am
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:40 am
I didn't know Australians confessed. I'd always thought they'd simply been found guilty.
IKR?

Seriously, though, I like how they are already playing the martyr card.
So you and wosbald are both flying at half chub. Interesting.
Everything is always about sex for you, isn't it?

:wavey:
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

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hugodrax
All Around Nice Guy
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Re: The Catholic Church in Australia

Post by hugodrax » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:12 am

UncleBob wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:05 am
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:47 am
UncleBob wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:08 am
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:40 am
I didn't know Australians confessed. I'd always thought they'd simply been found guilty.
IKR?

Seriously, though, I like how they are already playing the martyr card.
So you and wosbald are both flying at half chub. Interesting.
Everything is always about sex for you, isn't it?

:wavey:
You coming on to me, boy?
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

User avatar
UncleBob
CPS Theological Dogmatician
CPS Theological Dogmatician
Posts: 35665
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:00 pm
Location: Lubbock, TX USA
Contact:

Re: The Catholic Church in Australia

Post by UncleBob » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:25 am

hugodrax wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:12 am
UncleBob wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:05 am
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:47 am
UncleBob wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:08 am
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:40 am
I didn't know Australians confessed. I'd always thought they'd simply been found guilty.
IKR?

Seriously, though, I like how they are already playing the martyr card.
So you and wosbald are both flying at half chub. Interesting.
Everything is always about sex for you, isn't it?

:wavey:
You coming on to me, boy?
No. I just figured that, considering your preconceptions, a dancing jalapeno may convey unintended meanings for you.
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

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Del
Hacked by Kellyanne Conway
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Re: The Catholic Church in Australia

Post by Del » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:59 am

UncleBob wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:08 am
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:40 am
I didn't know Australians confessed. I'd always thought they'd simply been found guilty.
IKR?

Seriously, though, I like how they are already playing the martyr card.
It's not like they are claiming racism where there is no evidence of racism, nor are they predicting that there will be martyrdoms.

The simple fact is that no priest will comply with this law. Priests in past generations have endured torture, imprisonment, and martyrdom before they would break the Seal, and priests will stubbornly refuse to break the seal in the future.

A law such as this would only result in fines and imprisonment of priests, until some high court decides to restore religious freedom in Australia.
"Utter frogshit from start to finish." - Onyx

"I shall not wear a crown of gold where my Master wore a crown of thorns." - Godfrey de Bouillon

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hugodrax
All Around Nice Guy
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Re: The Catholic Church in Australia

Post by hugodrax » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:52 am

UncleBob wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:25 am
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:12 am
UncleBob wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:05 am
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:47 am
UncleBob wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:08 am
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:40 am
I didn't know Australians confessed. I'd always thought they'd simply been found guilty.
IKR?

Seriously, though, I like how they are already playing the martyr card.
So you and wosbald are both flying at half chub. Interesting.
Everything is always about sex for you, isn't it?

:wavey:
You coming on to me, boy?
No. I just figured that, considering your preconceptions, a dancing jalapeno may convey unintended meanings for you.
Fire in the hole?
Etiam mihi opinio anserem perirent.

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