I'm Starting to Like This Pope

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:13 pm

+JMJ+

Intra-Thread Trackback: pg 110



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"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:22 pm

+JMJ+

Pope considering adding 'sin against ecology' to Church's catechism [In-Depth]
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In this file photo, Pope Francis speaks during his general audience in St. Peter’s Square at the Vatican Nov. 13, 2019. (Credit: Paul Haring/CNS)

Speaking to a group of lawyers on Friday, Pope Francis said that the Catholic Church is contemplating the introduction of “ecological sin” to the compendium of Church teaching.

“We have to introduce, we are thinking about it, in the catechism of the Catholic Church, the sin against ecology, the sin against our common home, because it’s a duty,” he said.

The pope’s words came just weeks after the conclusion of a bishops’ summit on the Amazon focused on the environmental threat to the region.

Francis was speaking to the 20th world congress of the International Association of Penal Law, held in Rome Nov. 13-16, under the scope of “Criminal Justice and Corporate Business.”

He also said that the culture of waste, combined with other widespread phenomena in welfare societies, is showing the “serious tendency to degenerate into a culture of hatred.”

“It is no coincidence that in these times, emblems and actions typical of Nazism reappear, which, with its persecutions against Jews, gypsies and people of homosexual orientation, represents the negative model par excellence of a culture of waste and hatred,” Francis said.

He also said that upon hearing some speeches from certain governments, although he didn’t give any examples, he’s “reminded of Hitler’s speeches in 1934, in 1936, [heard] today.”

“We must be vigilant, both in the civil sphere and the ecclesial context, to avoid any possible compromise — which is assumed to be involuntary — with these degenerations,” he said.

[…]

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"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:24 pm

wosbald wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:22 pm
+JMJ+

Pope considering adding 'sin against ecology' to Church's catechism [In-Depth]
Image
In this file photo, Pope Francis speaks during his general audience in St. Peter’s Square at the Vatican Nov. 13, 2019. (Credit: Paul Haring/CNS)

Speaking to a group of lawyers on Friday, Pope Francis said that the Catholic Church is contemplating the introduction of “ecological sin” to the compendium of Church teaching.

“We have to introduce, we are thinking about it, in the catechism of the Catholic Church, the sin against ecology, the sin against our common home, because it’s a duty,” he said.

The pope’s words came just weeks after the conclusion of a bishops’ summit on the Amazon focused on the environmental threat to the region.

Francis was speaking to the 20th world congress of the International Association of Penal Law, held in Rome Nov. 13-16, under the scope of “Criminal Justice and Corporate Business.”

He also said that the culture of waste, combined with other widespread phenomena in welfare societies, is showing the “serious tendency to degenerate into a culture of hatred.”

“It is no coincidence that in these times, emblems and actions typical of Nazism reappear, which, with its persecutions against Jews, gypsies and people of homosexual orientation, represents the negative model par excellence of a culture of waste and hatred,” Francis said.

He also said that upon hearing some speeches from certain governments, although he didn’t give any examples, he’s “reminded of Hitler’s speeches in 1934, in 1936, [heard] today.”

“We must be vigilant, both in the civil sphere and the ecclesial context, to avoid any possible compromise — which is assumed to be involuntary — with these degenerations,” he said.

[…]
Reductio ad hitlerum.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:59 am

+JMJ+

Truth and Myth [In-Depth, Analysis, Opinion]
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In my post on “Tribalist Catholicism,” I mentioned, in passing, the French political theorist Georges Sorel (1847-1922). As a follow-up, I’d like to say something more about Sorel, whose thought is particularly useful for understanding this moment in the Church when social media and popular resentments have formed a particularly toxic mix.

Georges Sorel was a retired engineer who, at around the beginning of the twentieth century, became a political analyst, polemicist, and proponent of a new form of post-Nietzschean socialist politics based on a rejection of both gradualist progressivism and utopianism. He preached a gospel of ‘action,’ and aligned himself, at different times, with political movements as varied as revolutionary syndicalism, the integral nationalism of Charles Maurras and the Action Française, and Russian bolshevism. The British author Wyndham Lewis, writing in 1926, referred to Sorel as “the key to all contemporary political thought” (Lewis, 119), and the German political philosopher Carl Schmitt, in a footnote to The Crisis of Parliamentary Democracy (1926), agreed with Lewis’s appraisal (88n). Sorel was a major influence on Benito Mussolini and Italian fascism, and echoes of Sorel are still heard in the discourse of political extremists — from black bloc anarchists to alt-right provocateurs.

Image
Georges Sorel (1847-1922) (Source: Wikimedia Commons)

Sorel considered himself a moralist, but he was not a moral philosopher of the usual Catholic sort, concerned with delineating an objective moral order. The values he championed were the heroic values of the pagan warrior: honour, courage, self-sacrifice, ruthlessness, and strength of will. He despised dialogue, cooperation, and compromise, all of which he saw as symptomatic of a decadent bourgeois civilization. Instead, he self-consciously advocated the use of apocalyptic political discourse, which paralyzes the intellect and demands immediate action.

Because Sorel’s brand of moralism was not tied to abstract political ideologies, it appealed to both revolutionaries and reactionaries. As Lewis remarked, Sorel “is the arch exponent of extreme action and revolutionary violence à outrance [to the extreme]; but he expounds this sanguinary doctrine in manuals that often, by the changing of a few words, would equally serve the forces of traditional authority, and provide them with a twin evangel of demented and intolerant class-war” (119). He was the prophet not only of intolerant class war, but also of the culture wars that are still with us today.

Sorel came from a Catholic family, and his understanding of Church history informed his understanding of socialism, and vice versa. The only Church that Sorel was interested in, however, and which he ever showed any support for, was the “Church Militant.” He valorized only those aspects of the Church that stood in stark opposition to the modern world, and his rhetoric is echoed in that of many post-Vatican II traditionalists. S.P. Rouanet eloquently describes Sorel’s attitude toward the Church:
When science was condemned as heretical, and heliocentrism and evolution were attacked as demoniacal theories, the Church kept its vitality. The issues were clear, the two fields were sharply marked, and the task to be accomplished was the destruction of the spirit of Evil. While it maintained this single-mindedness and this heroic simplicity, remaining free from crippling intellectualisms, the Church commanded the loyalty and blind obedience of the faithful. When the Church decided to yield to the liberal spirit and to tolerate evolutionism and democracy, its vitality was lost. The issues lost their clearness, the border line between the two opposing fields was blurred, and a general climate of compromise replaced the old aggressiveness. The former values of warfare and martyrdom were replaced by a prosaic belief in peaceful coexistence. (58-9)
The trend toward “compromise” was, for Sorel, embodied in Pope Leo XIII, who played a role in Sorel’s thinking comparable to the role that Pope Francis plays for some today. He saw the encyclical Rerum Novarum (1891) as a pernicious blueprint for a reconciliation between the Church and modern society — a model for social harmony where no harmony was possible or desirable.

The central Sorelian concept — his most significant contribution to political theory — is that of the social “myth.” In his Reflections on Violence (1908), Sorel describes social myths as ideas or clusters of ideas that function as calls for action. They are “anticipations of the future” which contain “all the strongest inclinations of a people, of a party or of a class, inclinations which recur to the mind with the insistence of instincts in all the circumstances of life; and which give an aspect of complete reality to the hopes of immediate action by which, more easily than by any other method, men can reform their desires, passions, and mental activity” (125).

[…]

There are times when Catholics are called to heroic action, but Catholics can also, as history has shown, be driven into explosions of fanaticism and hate by myths that have no relationship to the truth. We must always be on guard against such influences. We should beware of Catholic publications that thrive on scandal, that publish, day after day, misleading stories that are designed to create an atmosphere of apocalyptic dread. And we should also beware of false prophets that offer simplistic solutions — especially when these are accompanied by militaristic language, a one-sided emphasis on heroic values, and a demonization of the enemy.

Certainly, within some segments of conservative Catholicism, we can see myth-building at work, and a “body of images” (both visual and verbal) that are meant to represent the two sides of an impending war in the Church. These images and ideas, taken as clusters, are capable of inspiring almost “instinctive” responses, as we see constantly on social media. What are the images that represent ‘the enemy’? These include the “Novus Ordo” mass, effeminate priests, Pachamama, Cardinal McCarrick, liberation theology, Bishop Kräutler, modern sacred architecture, the Nouvelle théologie, Democrat Catholics, ecumenism, inter-religious dialogue, Saul Alinsky, “nighty night, baby,” and many more. And on the side of the heroic warriors? The TLM, Pope Pius X, the Maccabees, crusader knights, Paul rebuking Peter, the Polish teen protesting a pride parade, the destruction of the ‘Pachamama idols,’ etc. It is conceptual theatre. Consider the following description of the Catholic Identity Conference that appeared on the popular traditionalist website One Peter Five last week, which uses language that would have made even Maurras blush:
The recent Catholic Identity Conference, organized by The Remnant Newspaper, is a call for all Catholics to rise up and fight for the Faith. In days past, the heralds came to town and preached the Crusade, and our fathers left their families to “take up the cross” and die in the holy land fighting Muhammadans. In the same way, Mr. Michael Matt, editor of The Remnant, has called this a “time of honor,” when Catholics must manfully arise for the honor of fighting and dying under the banner of Our Lady of Victory and Christ the King. It was his initiative of #UniteTheClans that dominated the conference, bringing together a wide variety of voices for a wholesale call to arms.
Catholic traditionalists of this type are playing with fire. They are also playing with the truth, which as Catholics we must always cleave to. Was there really idol worship at the Vatican during the Amazon synod? For the myth-builder, it doesn’t really matter. The “Pachamama” figure is useful in that it has a mythical quality; it can provide a focal-point around which to rally the troops.

[…]

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by tuttle » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:01 am

All those Protestants who left their liberal Protestantism for that stalwart pillar of Rome are currently suffering from ulcers.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Thunktank » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:40 am

tuttle wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:01 am
All those Protestants who left their liberal Protestantism for that stalwart pillar of Rome are currently suffering from ulcers.
Perhaps. And perhaps they also keep the faith that God will preserve the Truth as He promised. We still have the Truth, we still have the “Real Presence” and apostolic bishops. We still have the Pope, the “Prime Minister” of the Kingdom who was given the Keys. He may not be the favorite, but he is the one chosen for us by God for whatever reason. Rome is still and always has been the stalwart pillar of and for the Truth. A life free of difficulty and controversy was never promised to us.

Besides, we don’t judge the Truth by whether something is “liberal” or not.
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” -Yoda

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by tuttle » Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:28 pm

Thunktank wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:40 am
tuttle wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:01 am
All those Protestants who left their liberal Protestantism for that stalwart pillar of Rome are currently suffering from ulcers.
Perhaps. And perhaps they also keep the faith that God will preserve the Truth as He promised. We still have the Truth, we still have the “Real Presence” and apostolic bishops. We still have the Pope, the “Prime Minister” of the Kingdom who was given the Keys. He may not be the favorite, but he is the one chosen for us by God for whatever reason. Rome is still and always has been the stalwart pillar of and for the Truth. A life free of difficulty and controversy was never promised to us.

Besides, we don’t judge the Truth by whether something is “liberal” or not.
Despite my heavy disagreement with much of your response, that one was more for the protestant perspective than anyone else. One of the most common Tiber crossing explanations people from our side give is the liberalizing of Christianity in Protestantism. I just found it to be ironic. Outta the frying pan into the fire.
"The Evangelium has not abrogated legends; it has hallowed them" -JRR Tolkien

"Better to die cheerfully with the aid of a little tobacco, than to live disagreeably and remorseful without." -CS Lewis

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Thunktank » Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:40 pm

tuttle wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:28 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:40 am
tuttle wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:01 am
All those Protestants who left their liberal Protestantism for that stalwart pillar of Rome are currently suffering from ulcers.
Perhaps. And perhaps they also keep the faith that God will preserve the Truth as He promised. We still have the Truth, we still have the “Real Presence” and apostolic bishops. We still have the Pope, the “Prime Minister” of the Kingdom who was given the Keys. He may not be the favorite, but he is the one chosen for us by God for whatever reason. Rome is still and always has been the stalwart pillar of and for the Truth. A life free of difficulty and controversy was never promised to us.

Besides, we don’t judge the Truth by whether something is “liberal” or not.
Despite my heavy disagreement with much of your response, that one was more for the protestant perspective than anyone else. One of the most common Tiber crossing explanations people from our side give is the liberalizing of Christianity in Protestantism. I just found it to be ironic. Outta the frying pan into the fire.
I know you heavily disagree with a lot of that. I don’t care. :lol:

I’m the most ardent Papist on CPS in part BECAUSE I was Protestant (with exposure with liberal and conservative leaning groups), and Orthodox, which are basically Catholics in schism with the Pope and each other. I come by my Papism honestly. Despite the imperfections in the Catholic Church, it is a real blessing to have a God given authority one can submit to with good reasons. It helps me be able to know that when people make a muck of things the Truth will remain despite it and I will still be able to point to the very place it is.
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” -Yoda

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by tuttle » Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:52 pm

Thunktank wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:40 pm
tuttle wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:28 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:40 am
tuttle wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:01 am
All those Protestants who left their liberal Protestantism for that stalwart pillar of Rome are currently suffering from ulcers.
Perhaps. And perhaps they also keep the faith that God will preserve the Truth as He promised. We still have the Truth, we still have the “Real Presence” and apostolic bishops. We still have the Pope, the “Prime Minister” of the Kingdom who was given the Keys. He may not be the favorite, but he is the one chosen for us by God for whatever reason. Rome is still and always has been the stalwart pillar of and for the Truth. A life free of difficulty and controversy was never promised to us.

Besides, we don’t judge the Truth by whether something is “liberal” or not.
Despite my heavy disagreement with much of your response, that one was more for the protestant perspective than anyone else. One of the most common Tiber crossing explanations people from our side give is the liberalizing of Christianity in Protestantism. I just found it to be ironic. Outta the frying pan into the fire.
I know you heavily disagree with a lot of that. I don’t care. :lol:

I’m the most ardent Papist on CPS in part BECAUSE I was Protestant (with exposure with liberal and conservative leaning groups), and Orthodox, which are basically Catholics in schism with the Pope and each other. I come by my Papism honestly. Despite the imperfections in the Catholic Church, it is a real blessing to have a God given authority one can submit to with good reasons. It helps me be able to know that when people make a muck of things the Truth will remain despite it and I will still be able to point to the very place it is.
I'm right there with you. Just on the other side (so to speak).

May God grant us both the strength to cling to that Truth and may we high-five about in the age to come.
"The Evangelium has not abrogated legends; it has hallowed them" -JRR Tolkien

"Better to die cheerfully with the aid of a little tobacco, than to live disagreeably and remorseful without." -CS Lewis

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Hovannes » Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:06 pm

Image
Is this the guy who invented those funny looking snow boots?Image
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Thunktank » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:30 pm

Hovannes wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:06 pm
Image
Is this the guy who invented those funny looking snow boots?Image
I don’t know, Hov. But what the hell does it have to do with the Pope or the Catholic Church? It’s like you find something completely irrelevant to anything at all and say to yourself, “I have a stupid question, let’s put it in the I’m Starting to Like This Pope thread and see what sort of stupid answers I can find.” Good Lord man! Go pray the Rosary or something and stop it!
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” -Yoda

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Red129er » Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:01 pm

Thunktank wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:40 pm
tuttle wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:28 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:40 am
tuttle wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:01 am
All those Protestants who left their liberal Protestantism for that stalwart pillar of Rome are currently suffering from ulcers.
Perhaps. And perhaps they also keep the faith that God will preserve the Truth as He promised. We still have the Truth, we still have the “Real Presence” and apostolic bishops. We still have the Pope, the “Prime Minister” of the Kingdom who was given the Keys. He may not be the favorite, but he is the one chosen for us by God for whatever reason. Rome is still and always has been the stalwart pillar of and for the Truth. A life free of difficulty and controversy was never promised to us.

Besides, we don’t judge the Truth by whether something is “liberal” or not.
Despite my heavy disagreement with much of your response, that one was more for the protestant perspective than anyone else. One of the most common Tiber crossing explanations people from our side give is the liberalizing of Christianity in Protestantism. I just found it to be ironic. Outta the frying pan into the fire.
I know you heavily disagree with a lot of that. I don’t care. :lol:

I’m the most ardent Papist on CPS in part BECAUSE I was Protestant (with exposure with liberal and conservative leaning groups), and Orthodox, which are basically Catholics in schism with the Pope and each other. I come by my Papism honestly. Despite the imperfections in the Catholic Church, it is a real blessing to have a God given authority one can submit to with good reasons. It helps me be able to know that when people make a muck of things the Truth will remain despite it and I will still be able to point to the very place it is.
First, just because you were Orthodox doesn't mean anything. It doesn't give you any magical authority or wisdom. It doesn't make you right. I know Orthodox who were once Catholic and Protestant. What of it?

Second, if that's what you think Orthodoxy is, you never had any clue to begin with. There are many Orthodox Christians who genuinely want to heal the Schism with the RCC but do have issues with the current form of the Papacy. We're never going to heal the Schism if Roman Catholics like yourself simply overlook the actual differences that exist between our communions and really do the hard work of reconciliation. Hand waving away these real issues does nobody any favors.

Third, I am starting to believe that you're the most vocal Papist on CPS because you're really trying to convince yourself that you made the right decision.

But you do you.

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Hovannes » Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:49 pm

Red129er wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:01 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:40 pm
tuttle wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:28 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:40 am
tuttle wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:01 am
All those Protestants who left their liberal Protestantism for that stalwart pillar of Rome are currently suffering from ulcers.
Perhaps. And perhaps they also keep the faith that God will preserve the Truth as He promised. We still have the Truth, we still have the “Real Presence” and apostolic bishops. We still have the Pope, the “Prime Minister” of the Kingdom who was given the Keys. He may not be the favorite, but he is the one chosen for us by God for whatever reason. Rome is still and always has been the stalwart pillar of and for the Truth. A life free of difficulty and controversy was never promised to us.

Besides, we don’t judge the Truth by whether something is “liberal” or not.
Despite my heavy disagreement with much of your response, that one was more for the protestant perspective than anyone else. One of the most common Tiber crossing explanations people from our side give is the liberalizing of Christianity in Protestantism. I just found it to be ironic. Outta the frying pan into the fire.
I know you heavily disagree with a lot of that. I don’t care. :lol:

I’m the most ardent Papist on CPS in part BECAUSE I was Protestant (with exposure with liberal and conservative leaning groups), and Orthodox, which are basically Catholics in schism with the Pope and each other. I come by my Papism honestly. Despite the imperfections in the Catholic Church, it is a real blessing to have a God given authority one can submit to with good reasons. It helps me be able to know that when people make a muck of things the Truth will remain despite it and I will still be able to point to the very place it is.
First, just because you were Orthodox doesn't mean anything. It doesn't give you any magical authority or wisdom. It doesn't make you right. I know Orthodox who were once Catholic and Protestant. What of it?

Second, if that's what you think Orthodoxy is, you never had any clue to begin with. There are many Orthodox Christians who genuinely want to heal the Schism with the RCC but do have issues with the current form of the Papacy. We're never going to heal the Schism if Roman Catholics like yourself simply overlook the actual differences that exist between our communions and really do the hard work of reconciliation. Hand waving away these real issues does nobody any favors.

Third, I am starting to believe that you're the most vocal Papist on CPS because you're really trying to convince yourself that you made the right decision.

But you do you.

Popes are men, sinful as all men are. They go to confession like all Catholics should.
Thunk knows this.
The pope is a reliable authority on the Word.
How reliable an authority Francis is on other matters will be determined by History.
Benedict was likely the most successful at healing differences, but Benedict was a scholar who famously corresponded with scholars from different traditions and wrote extensively---emphatically not bound under papal infallibility, btw---on Christology and faith----he studied opposing concerns and addressed them (remember Regensberg?)
Francis is of a different style for better or for worse, but he's still Pope and deserves the respect of that office.I think that's Thunk's concern

God's HR doesn't make mistakes.
"What doesn't kill you, gives you a lot of unhealthy coping mechanisms and a really dark sense of humor."

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Hovannes » Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:54 pm

Thunktank wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:30 pm
Hovannes wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:06 pm
Image
Is this the guy who invented those funny looking snow boots?Image
I don’t know, Hov. But what the hell does it have to do with the Pope or the Catholic Church? It’s like you find something completely irrelevant to anything at all and say to yourself, “I have a stupid question, let’s put it in the I’m Starting to Like This Pope thread and see what sort of stupid answers I can find.” Good Lord man! Go pray the Rosary or something and stop it!
It has more to do with Sorel. An attempt to find some beneficial contribution he may have made to society.
"What doesn't kill you, gives you a lot of unhealthy coping mechanisms and a really dark sense of humor."

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Thunktank » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:35 pm

Red129er wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:01 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:40 pm
tuttle wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:28 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:40 am
tuttle wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:01 am
All those Protestants who left their liberal Protestantism for that stalwart pillar of Rome are currently suffering from ulcers.
Perhaps. And perhaps they also keep the faith that God will preserve the Truth as He promised. We still have the Truth, we still have the “Real Presence” and apostolic bishops. We still have the Pope, the “Prime Minister” of the Kingdom who was given the Keys. He may not be the favorite, but he is the one chosen for us by God for whatever reason. Rome is still and always has been the stalwart pillar of and for the Truth. A life free of difficulty and controversy was never promised to us.

Besides, we don’t judge the Truth by whether something is “liberal” or not.
Despite my heavy disagreement with much of your response, that one was more for the protestant perspective than anyone else. One of the most common Tiber crossing explanations people from our side give is the liberalizing of Christianity in Protestantism. I just found it to be ironic. Outta the frying pan into the fire.
I know you heavily disagree with a lot of that. I don’t care. :lol:

I’m the most ardent Papist on CPS in part BECAUSE I was Protestant (with exposure with liberal and conservative leaning groups), and Orthodox, which are basically Catholics in schism with the Pope and each other. I come by my Papism honestly. Despite the imperfections in the Catholic Church, it is a real blessing to have a God given authority one can submit to with good reasons. It helps me be able to know that when people make a muck of things the Truth will remain despite it and I will still be able to point to the very place it is.
First, just because you were Orthodox doesn't mean anything. It doesn't give you any magical authority or wisdom. It doesn't make you right. I know Orthodox who were once Catholic and Protestant. What of it?

Second, if that's what you think Orthodoxy is, you never had any clue to begin with. There are many Orthodox Christians who genuinely want to heal the Schism with the RCC but do have issues with the current form of the Papacy. We're never going to heal the Schism if Roman Catholics like yourself simply overlook the actual differences that exist between our communions and really do the hard work of reconciliation. Hand waving away these real issues does nobody any favors.

Third, I am starting to believe that you're the most vocal Papist on CPS because you're really trying to convince yourself that you made the right decision.

But you do you.
Pardon my zeal. After being in the gutter for a while, it’s a bit exciting to see any light at all. I’m just an annoying newb again.
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” -Yoda

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Thunktank » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:40 pm

Hovannes wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:54 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:30 pm
Hovannes wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:06 pm
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Is this the guy who invented those funny looking snow boots?Image
I don’t know, Hov. But what the hell does it have to do with the Pope or the Catholic Church? It’s like you find something completely irrelevant to anything at all and say to yourself, “I have a stupid question, let’s put it in the I’m Starting to Like This Pope thread and see what sort of stupid answers I can find.” Good Lord man! Go pray the Rosary or something and stop it!
It has more to do with Sorel. An attempt to find some beneficial contribution he may have made to society.
Well danggumit! I’m rather ignorant of Sorel and I’m sure he made a fine contribution to society if he did invent those boots. I remember wearing boots like that in PA when I was kid. Great boots for when there is ice, snow and roadside slush. Ugh! I sure do appreciate the fair weather in So Cal even if it is boringly warm and sunny 90 percent of the time. I can choose the snow and cold now.
“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” -Yoda

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:59 am

+JMJ+

Controversial 'Pachamama thief' goes on U.S. tour [In-Depth]
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A wooden statue of a pregnant woman is pictured in the Church of St. Mary in Traspontina as part of exhibits on the Amazon region during the Synod of Bishops for the Amazon in Rome Oct. 18, 2019. Several copies of the statue were stolen from the church and thrown into the Tiber River Oct. 21. (Credit: CNS photo/Paul Haring)

NEW YORK — One month after famously stealing indigenous statues and throwing them into Rome’s Tiber river, the man who has quickly become one of the global Church’s most polarizing figures is now making his way across the U.S. hosted by traditionalist Catholics.

[…]

In the weeks since, he has launched the St. Boniface Institute with a stated mission to “rally those who do not want to bow down to ‘Mother Earth.’” Over the last week, Tschugguel has traveled throughout the U.S., giving speeches in the Washington, D.C. area, New York, and Texas.

His speeches have been organized and sponsored by Tradition, Family, and Property (TFP), LifeSite News, and Taylor Marshall — all traditionalist Catholic groups or individuals who have been sharply critical of the Amazon synod and the Francis papacy.

Tschugguel, Marshall, and TFP did not reply to a request for comment from Crux.

[…]

During an address at TFP’s Washington Bureau in McLean, Virginia on November 12, Tschugguel chronicled the backstory of what motivated his theft of the statues.

[…]

Throughout the talk, Tschugguel insisted that his actions were well considered and not out of mere passion.

“We do not want to do things out of pure emotion,” he said. “We also have to think of things. Our faith is intelligent and logical.”

He also took issue with the idea that some have described the statues as reminiscent of the Virgin Mary.

“Even if it were a depiction of Mary, why is she naked and ugly?” he asked. “Mary is always dressed very well and very beautiful.”

[…]

During his time in Texas, Tschugguel was hosted by Taylor Marshall, a traditionalist whose recent book Infiltration: The Plot to Destroy the Church from Within was published by Sophia Institute Press, owned by EWTN.

The book argues that Freemasons, liberals, and modernists conspired to infiltrate the Catholic Church to change her teachings to conform to their worldview.

Over the weekend, Marshall also posted photos on social media with Tschugguel at the “Texas Gun Experience” in Grapevine, Texas, which according to their website offers machine gun rentals and “the ultimate gun and knife retail experience.”

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According to Marshall’s social media posts, the outing was in an effort to protest “Cardinal [Blase] Cupich and the USCCB on their gun control lobby.”

Image

Marshall’s Tweet comes just days after a discussion on gun control during the general assembly of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) during which Cupich called out the gun lobby as being motivated by profit.

[…]

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Hovannes » Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:21 am

I'd rather have a beer with Tschugguel than with Cupich.
Just sayin' :whistling:
"What doesn't kill you, gives you a lot of unhealthy coping mechanisms and a really dark sense of humor."

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:44 am

Hovannes wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:21 am
I'd rather have a beer with Tschugguel than with Cupich.
Just sayin' :whistling:
Really? Even after finding out he likes guns??
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by Hovannes » Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:11 am

hugodrax wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:44 am
Hovannes wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:21 am
I'd rather have a beer with Tschugguel than with Cupich.
Just sayin' :whistling:
Really? Even after finding out he likes guns??
Better than walking down a dark alley with Cardinal Cupich and running into a bunch of Chinese Catholics who may be a wee bit perturbed over being sold up the river by his Eminence :whistling:
"What doesn't kill you, gives you a lot of unhealthy coping mechanisms and a really dark sense of humor."

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