Can a Christian Support Gay Marriage?

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Adam Z
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Re: Can a Christian Support Gay Marriage?

Post by Adam Z » Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:53 pm

Goose55 wrote:
Adam Z wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:56 pm
Can they? Yes.
Should they? No.
God made Adam & Eve. Not Adam & Steve.
Agreed.

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Re: Can a Christian Support Gay Marriage?

Post by Fainn » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:57 pm

Without reading the rest of the thread, I'm going to have to give that a big "NO".
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Re:

Post by harkpuff » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:35 pm

infidel wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:44 pm
Good golly, this topic never ceases to bring out the worst in believers.

The question is really "can a Christian support equal rights under the law for all citizens?" to which the answer should be (IMO) an emphatic "well, DUH".

Homosexuality is NOT in any way the "same in principle" as murder or other such sins. I mean, really. <redacted_emoji>

To say someone can "recover" from homosexuality like alcoholism is just retarded too. Human sexuality spans a spectrum (like practically any other trait), it's not just an either/or switch.
[/quote

No...The original question was...Can a Christian support Gay marriage? And the answer is: Biblically speaking a Christian cannot. The author of this thread said nothing about equal rights.

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Re:

Post by harkpuff » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:51 pm

TNLawPiper wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:16 pm
Gabriel wrote:
TNLawPiper wrote:
Gabriel wrote:
infidel wrote:Good golly, this topic never ceases to bring out the worst in believers.

The question is really "can a Christian support equal rights under the law for all citizens?" to which the answer should be (IMO) an emphatic "well, DUH".
<redacted_emoji>

That tired objection? Two items:

- Instead of derailing the thread and jumping on your soapbox, you could answer the question. (although it was asked of Christians, so I'm not sure why you'd want to).

- Homosexuals DO have equal rights under the law. What they (as a movement) seem to want is special rights.
They want rights equal to those granted to heterosexual couples. Therefore, they want equal rights.
This why definitions matter. All people, regardless of sexual orientation have the same rights under the law. I have no more legal right to marry a man than any other man. Any other man has the same right to marry a woman as I do. We have the same rights.

I have a hard time accepting that it is in society's interest to re-invent marriage. I'm always teetering on the edge of Bigwill's position. (But then we'd agree on something in the Theology forum! 8O )
Just as the Supreme Court gave interracial couples the same right to be married as it had given white couples, we should give homosexual couples the same rights to be married as we give heterosexual couples. This isn't a matter of individual rights, but of substantive due process rights of couples to marry.
Along with homosexuality...beastiality is also listed in the Bible as a sexual sin that God considers an abomination and God says that too will have no place in heaven. What's going to be next to come out of the closet?.. Are we are going to have those petitioning the Supreme Court that they want the United States to sanction their due process to marry their goat.

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Re:

Post by harkpuff » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:58 pm

Zed wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:19 pm
TNLawPiper wrote:
Zed wrote:I think the question boils down to this; do you support <Of or having to do with the same>- marriage because you think secular govt comes first? Or do you not support <Of or having to do with the same>- marriage because being a Christian comes first?

As it stands right now the indoctrineation in our schools, gov't, and media says that we are a secular nation. They are even rewriting history to make it happen. So do we Christians stand by our Country's history and by our faith or do we goose step along with changing society?
We need to repeal parts of our Constitution if we no longer intend to be bound by them. The Constitution doesn't shape my views of Christ, but it does affect how I view our governance system, because it's the rules of the game.
So it's okay if it's the law? That does not answer my question.

What I'm looking for is:

"I am Christian first."

or

"I am secular gov't first"
Yes Zed. If one is a Christian...they are a Christian first and God's law takes precedence over man's law.

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Re: Re:

Post by durangopipe » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:59 pm

harkpuff wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:51 pm
TNLawPiper wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:16 pm
Gabriel wrote:
TNLawPiper wrote:
Gabriel wrote:
infidel wrote:Good golly, this topic never ceases to bring out the worst in believers.

The question is really "can a Christian support equal rights under the law for all citizens?" to which the answer should be (IMO) an emphatic "well, DUH".
<redacted_emoji>

That tired objection? Two items:

- Instead of derailing the thread and jumping on your soapbox, you could answer the question. (although it was asked of Christians, so I'm not sure why you'd want to).

- Homosexuals DO have equal rights under the law. What they (as a movement) seem to want is special rights.
They want rights equal to those granted to heterosexual couples. Therefore, they want equal rights.
This why definitions matter. All people, regardless of sexual orientation have the same rights under the law. I have no more legal right to marry a man than any other man. Any other man has the same right to marry a woman as I do. We have the same rights.

I have a hard time accepting that it is in society's interest to re-invent marriage. I'm always teetering on the edge of Bigwill's position. (But then we'd agree on something in the Theology forum! 8O )
Just as the Supreme Court gave interracial couples the same right to be married as it had given white couples, we should give homosexual couples the same rights to be married as we give heterosexual couples. This isn't a matter of individual rights, but of substantive due process rights of couples to marry.
Along with homosexuality...beastiality is also listed in the Bible as a sexual sin that God considers an abomination and God says that too will have no place in heaven. What's going to be next to come out of the closet?.. Are we are going to have those petitioning the Supreme Court that they want the United States to sanction their due process to marry their goat.
Not if Coco has anything to say about it!
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Re: Can a Christian Support Gay Marriage?

Post by FredS » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:11 pm

Seriously harkpuff?! That's where you want to take this? Towards the slippery slope of marrying a goat!? That'll surely settle the debate with the same-sex couple down the street. "Oh. Wow! No that you've compared it to marrying a goat I see how foolish I've been. Mind. Blown. Thanks for setting me straight buddy."
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Re: Can a Christian Support Gay Marriage?

Post by TNLawPiper » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:23 pm

Gay marriage has been legal for years now, yet bestiality is still illegal. HOW CAN THIS BE????

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Re: Can a Christian Support Gay Marriage?

Post by DAN » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:43 pm

Well, let's not jump to conclusions.

Had to look up where bestiality is legal. According to this, https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bestiality
It is legal in Argentina, Brazil, Colombia, Mexico, Cambodia, Thailand, Japan, Russia, Finland,[2] Hungary, Turkey, Canada and Romania...
And according to this, https://www.indy100.com/article/us-stat ... al-7451731 , certain states do not outlaw it.
Hawaii, Kentucky, Nevada, New Mexico, Ohio, Texas, Vermont, West Virginia and Wyoming, and the District of Columbia...
Perhaps those goats are not as safe as we would like to think.
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Re: Can a Christian Support Gay Marriage?

Post by TNLawPiper » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:52 pm

DAN wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:43 pm
Well, let's not jump to conclusions.

Had to look up where bestiality is legal. According to this, https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bestiality
It is legal in Argentina, Brazil, Colombia, Mexico, Cambodia, Thailand, Japan, Russia, Finland,[2] Hungary, Turkey, Canada and Romania...
And according to this, https://www.indy100.com/article/us-stat ... al-7451731 , certain states do not outlaw it.
Hawaii, Kentucky, Nevada, New Mexico, Ohio, Texas, Vermont, West Virginia and Wyoming, and the District of Columbia...
Perhaps those goats are not as safe as we would like to think.
The only things to come out of Texas are steers and steer lovers?

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Re: Can a Christian Support Gay Marriage?

Post by DAN » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:06 pm

TNLawPiper wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:52 pm
DAN wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:43 pm
Well, let's not jump to conclusions.

Had to look up where bestiality is legal. According to this, https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bestiality
It is legal in Argentina, Brazil, Colombia, Mexico, Cambodia, Thailand, Japan, Russia, Finland,[2] Hungary, Turkey, Canada and Romania...
And according to this, https://www.indy100.com/article/us-stat ... al-7451731 , certain states do not outlaw it.
Hawaii, Kentucky, Nevada, New Mexico, Ohio, Texas, Vermont, West Virginia and Wyoming, and the District of Columbia...
Perhaps those goats are not as safe as we would like to think.
The only things to come out of Texas are steers and steer lovers?
Take that one up with UB. He's the Texan.
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Re: Can a Christian Support Gay Marriage?

Post by harkpuff » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:25 pm

FredS wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:11 pm
Seriously harkpuff?! That's where you want to take this? Towards the slippery slope of marrying a goat!? That'll surely settle the debate with the same-sex couple down the street. "Oh. Wow! No that you've compared it to marrying a goat I see how foolish I've been. Mind. Blown. Thanks for setting me straight buddy."
I had no idea that this discussion was taking place with the same-sex couple down the street. I am under the impression that this discussion was started by a member of CPS, who, if is familiar with the Word of God would not be offended by sexually related topics that are found within Scripture. Had I been in a conversation with the same-sex couple concerning the issue of course my dialog and tact would be appropriately administered. However, this kind of discussion with mature Bible believing brothers and sisters should not be offensive at all, considering the magnitude of importance of the issue.
Fred, I have no idea how old you are, but who would have thought 50 years ago that America would be witnessing what is taking place in our country today. Homosexuality was for the most part still in the closet and only within the last twenty or thirty years or so has it been openly and radically thrust (in our faces) and proclaimed with their expectations of full and complete acceptance by the rest of the world. When one thinks about homosexuality and what it is comprised of, why would the next step of bestiality be such a stretch for the imagination? Society has literally reached the point of "anything goes". The moral fiber of the world and even America is in a flaming freefall and still many are numbed to the point of compliance and complete acceptance; sadly, even within some churches.

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Re: Can a Christian Support Gay Marriage?

Post by Sir Moose » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:53 pm

FredS wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:11 pm
Seriously harkpuff?! That's where you want to take this? Towards the slippery slope of marrying a goat!? That'll surely settle the debate with the same-sex couple down the street. "Oh. Wow! No that you've compared it to marrying a goat I see how foolish I've been. Mind. Blown. Thanks for setting me straight buddy."
I don't think Harkpuff intended this as a slippery slope argument so much as a recognition that if we decide that the definition of 'marriage' is malleable, then there is no logical reason that the simple addition of homosexual marriage would be the limit of the change. There are already movements toward the normalization of bestiality, pedophilia, and marrying yourself, and even inanimate objects. The question becomes, where do we draw the line?
In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.

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Re: Can a Christian Support Gay Marriage?

Post by harkpuff » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:52 pm

Sir Moose wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:53 pm
FredS wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:11 pm
Seriously harkpuff?! That's where you want to take this? Towards the slippery slope of marrying a goat!? That'll surely settle the debate with the same-sex couple down the street. "Oh. Wow! No that you've compared it to marrying a goat I see how foolish I've been. Mind. Blown. Thanks for setting me straight buddy."
I don't think Harkpuff intended this as a slippery slope argument so much as a recognition that if we decide that the definition of 'marriage' is malleable, then there is no logical reason that the simple addition of homosexual marriage would be the limit of the change. There are already movements toward the normalization of bestiality, pedophilia, and marrying yourself, and even inanimate objects. The question becomes, where do we draw the line?
Thank you Sir Moose. You said it best!

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Re: Can a Christian Support Gay Marriage?

Post by peter cornbriar » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:34 am

The lesbian couple up my street got married,then divorced two years later... what a hoot! :D
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Re: Can a Christian Support Gay Marriage?

Post by Del » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:34 am

DAN wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:43 pm
Well, let's not jump to conclusions.

Had to look up where bestiality is legal. According to this, https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bestiality
It is legal in Argentina, Brazil, Colombia, Mexico, Cambodia, Thailand, Japan, Russia, Finland,[2] Hungary, Turkey, Canada and Romania...
And according to this, https://www.indy100.com/article/us-stat ... al-7451731 , certain states do not outlaw it.
Hawaii, Kentucky, Nevada, New Mexico, Ohio, Texas, Vermont, West Virginia and Wyoming, and the District of Columbia...
Perhaps those goats are not as safe as we would like to think.
TNLawPiper wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:23 pm
Gay marriage has been legal for years now, yet bestiality is still illegal. HOW CAN THIS BE????
Homosexuality has been legal and tolerated for many centuries.... not always and everywhere, but in various cultures and ages it was okay to bugger your buddy.

But it wasn't until recent tens of years that anyone imagined that two dudes living together might somehow be similar to marriage. Marriage was always about making children together.

But not anymore. New-marriage can be defined as "a sexual relationship (of any sort) desiring a favorable tax-filing status."
============================================================

Bestiality used to be illegal to uphold the social moral standard and to prevent cruelty to animals.

But we do love our pets and our tax deductions.....
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Re: Can a Christian Support Gay Marriage?

Post by Del » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:09 am

Sir Moose wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:53 pm
FredS wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:11 pm
Seriously harkpuff?! That's where you want to take this? Towards the slippery slope of marrying a goat!? That'll surely settle the debate with the same-sex couple down the street. "Oh. Wow! No that you've compared it to marrying a goat I see how foolish I've been. Mind. Blown. Thanks for setting me straight buddy."
I don't think Harkpuff intended this as a slippery slope argument so much as a recognition that if we decide that the definition of 'marriage' is malleable, then there is no logical reason that the simple addition of homosexual marriage would be the limit of the change. There are already movements toward the normalization of bestiality, pedophilia, and marrying yourself, and even inanimate objects. The question becomes, where do we draw the line?
We had a line.

The whole point of Obergefell was to erase the line -- and to NOT draw any new one.

Justice Kennedy's majority decision said that no state, church, or society had authority to define or regulate marriage -- because marriage is a fundamental right that is “inherent in the liberty of the person.” So marriage is Relative -- It is whatever the person thinks it is.

I suppose that states still have some leeway to regulate marriages involving young children and goats (based on "consent"). But much beyond that, Reality has her hands tied.
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Re: Can a Christian Support Gay Marriage?

Post by TNLawPiper » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:13 am

For my response to these new posts, please see my old posts, in which we already covered all of this.

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Re: Can a Christian Support Gay Marriage?

Post by harkpuff » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:27 pm

Ultimately….It does not matter what we, Justice Kennedy, or any other court determines regarding marriage. God, who created mankind is the one who created, ordained and sets the standard for God's institution of marriage. Marriage was created by God and belongs to God. Our personal opinions, preferences, or official judicial rulings concerning the issue doesn't mean a hill of beans to God since God answers to no one and it will be we who answer to Him.
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Re: Can a Christian Support Gay Marriage?

Post by sweetandsour » Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:24 am

There's an older couple in the far East area of Houston (not "far-east", but outside-the-beltway East), that ride around with a goat in the cab of their pickup. I've seen them twice but no chance either time to get a pic.
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