I'm Starting to Like This Pope

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:03 pm

wosbald wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:31 pm
+JMJ+

The Chinese Rites, The Amazon Synod, And The So-Called Traditionalists Attack On Catholic Tradition [In-Depth, Opinion]
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Prospero Intorcetta, Philippe Couplet, et al: Pages from Confucius Sinarum Philosophus (“Confucius, the Philosopher of the Chinese”), an annotated Latin translation of three of the “Four Books” of Qing Confucianism by Prospero Intorcetta / Wikimedia Commons

When the Jesuits began their mission to China, they had to find a way to engage the Chinese. Matteo (Matthew) Ricci came to the conclusion that he had to come to the Chinese embracing their cultural heritage, looking to and accepting what could be demonstrated as a natural theological truth. Initially, he and his fellow Jesuits entered China, shaved their heads, acting like Buddhist monks, but that did not bring much success; it was when they studied the classical Confucian tradition that they discerned a new way to engage Chinese thought, and so they promoted an engagement with Confucian thought, taking what they thought was acceptable within Confucianism and using it as a way to discuss and point to the Christian faith. This meant they had to be creative, looking broadly to what they thought was acceptable, allowing converts to continue to follow many Confucian traditions, such as ancestor veneration, so long as those traditions were given an orthodox understanding.

[…]

Sadly, not just for the Jesuits but for Christians in China, Ricci’s position quickly became unfavorable in the Vatican, though in the 20th century, the Vatican would change its position and accept the framework which Ricci tried to establish:

[…]

Sadly, this came too late for Christian missions in China. The damage had been done. But this understanding and strategy remains with the church as can be seen in the way the church is wanting to engage the needs of the peoples living around the Amazon. Thus, as Junno Esteves pointed out in Crux, Cardinal Pedro Barreto Jimeno of Huancayo sees the up-coming synod in the Amazon as trying to deal with and embrace the needs of the indigenous peoples of the Amazon region:
The objective of the upcoming Synod of Bishops for the Amazon is to highlight the need for religious, political and social leaders to come together and defend the dignity of indigenous men, women and children and an ecosystem that is crucial to the environment, said Peruvian Cardinal Pedro Barreto Jimeno of Huancayo.
Many critics of the up-coming Synod, like those who reacted against the Jesuits during the Chinese Rites controversy, have tried to indicate that the synod will be promoting heresy because of its engagement with the indigenous peoples. The Editors at the National Catholic Register, ignoring the church’s tradition and teaching concerning inculturation, suggest there is something illicit in the approach, calling it a “distortion”:
And, with the formal release of the synod’s instrumentum laboris (working document), the issue of married priests was indeed present as a potential problem, alongside other areas of concern, such as the document’s treatment of ecological issues and its distortions of inculturation.
[…]
Wos, I say this with all love: you've become a meme, dude. The Goebbels of the Guelfi.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:18 pm

+JMJ+

Pope Francis prays for victims of Mediterranean shipwreck
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Migrants rescued by Libyan coast guard after their wooden boat capsized off the coast of Komas. More than 100 people lost their lives in the tragedy.

At the Angelus on Sunday, Pope Francis remembers migrants who drowned in a shipwreck earlier this week.

Pope Francis has once again called on the international community “to act with speed and decisiveness” to address the issue of migration. His appeal came during the Sunday Angelus, when he prayed for victims of a shipwreck in the Mediterranean earlier this week.

Scores of migrants are feared drowned after a boat carrying migrants from Libya sank about 8 km from the coast of Libya on Wednesday. It is believed to be the worst shipwreck on the Mediterranean this year. Authorities said at least 115 are missing, while 134 were rescued. One body was recovered.

[…]

In his remarks on Sunday, Pope Francis called for action “to avoid a repetition of such tragedies, and to ensure the security and dignity of all.” He concluded his appeal by asking those present “to pray with me for the victims and for their families … and also, from the heart, to ask: ‘Father, Why?’”

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"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:05 pm

Tell me when he shitz in the woods, short round.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by ChildOfGod » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:51 am

Thunktank wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:39 pm
ChildOfGod wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:37 pm
Thunktank wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:02 pm
To be honest though, the Catholic Church has in many sectors lost it’s reverence.
Would that align with 2 Timothy 3:5 "...having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power.", or is that too strong?
Truthfully, that is an ongoing problem in the churches of God. I’m not sure there was ever a time when the lukewarm and scandalous haven’t been a part of the church. Yet somehow, the faithful receive the Grace from God to keep the churches Holy. The gates of hell will not prevail. Jesus promised St. Peter that.

I should be careful not to judge too harshly the difficult and complicated updates to the form of the Mass. besides, I’m a Byzantine rite Catholic, not a Roman rite Catholic. I only spend a lot of time going to Roman rite masses due to personal convenience. But it’s really not my place to judge; perhaps it’s better to simply share a perspective. There are Roman Catholics who are quite capable of reverence, they don’t need my help. :lol:
Thanks Thunk. I appreciate the perspective. It seems I've been running into the "ongoing problem in the churches of God", as you put it, more frequently; or perhaps I've become more sensitive to it as I mature as a Christian (and perhaps grow in personal holiness). I appreciate your thoughts on the subject.

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:14 am

+JMJ+


ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:51 am

wosbald wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:14 am
+JMJ+

Word soup, motherhumpers! How he missed the free helicopter rides is beyond me.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:14 am

+JMJ+

Pope demands respect for Geneva Conventions as anniversary looms
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Pope Francis leads the Angelus from the window of his studio overlooking St. Peter's Square at the Vatican March 17, 2019. (Credit: CNS photo/Vatican Media)

ROME — Often an outspoken champion for the protection of the most vulnerable, Pope Francis on Sunday issued an appeal for the international community to adhere to legal protections for civilians and prisoners of war outlined in the Geneva Conventions, the 70th anniversary of which falls on Monday.

Speaking to pilgrims during his August 11 Angelus address in St. Peter’s Square, Francis called the conventions “important international legal instruments which impose limits on the use of force, and which are aimed at protecting civilians and prisoners in time of war.”

[…]

The Holy See is a signatory to the Geneva Conventions, and frequently cites them in appeals for humanitarian corridors, protection of civilian populations and the treatment of POWs, among other things.

[…]

In his Angelus comments, the pope prayed that the anniversary would “make states increasingly aware of the indispensable need to protect the life and dignity of victims of armed conflicts.”

“All are required to observe the limits imposed by international law, protecting unarmed populations and civil structures, especially hospitals, places of worship, and refugee camps,” he said, adding, “let us not forget that war and terrorism are always a serious loss for humanity.”

In an impromptu flourish not in his prepared text, Francis added, “they are the great defeat of humanity.”

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"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:13 am

+JMJ+


ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:43 am

May God defend us from all zealots, of whatever stripe. Defending the Pope can be a noble cause, maligning men's reputations will never be noble. Will you defend Burke with the same zeal if he is elected Pope?
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:32 am

+JMJ+
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:43 am
May God defend us from all zealots, of whatever stripe. Defending the Pope can be a noble cause, maligning men's reputations will never be noble. Will you defend Burke with the same zeal if he is elected Pope?
Lemme put it this way: I prolly wouldn't be submitting Nuisance Dubia.

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"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:35 am

wosbald wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:32 am
+JMJ+
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:43 am
May God defend us from all zealots, of whatever stripe. Defending the Pope can be a noble cause, maligning men's reputations will never be noble. Will you defend Burke with the same zeal if he is elected Pope?
Lemme put it this way: I prolly wouldn't be submitting Nuisance Dubia.
True enough. You'll never be a Cardinal. :D

But seriously, we have to be careful of faction and division. One of the most incomprehensible things for me is the absolute venom involved. I can be as bad as anyone else so dont think I'm calling you out. Why can some question and call for change and others not oppose that call?

Pope Francis repeatedly uses the word "synodality," but it seems his most vocal proponents reject the reality this term envisions. It's a seat at the table for all, not just the ones in full agreement. There has to be a place for both Pope Francis and Cardinal Burke, just as there must be for Wosbald and Hugo. We seem to be upsetting the catholic-Catholic continuum, don't you think?
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:51 am

+JMJ+
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:35 am
[…]

… We seem to be upsetting the catholic-Catholic continuum, don't you think?
No.

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:10 pm

wosbald wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:51 am
+JMJ+
hugodrax wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:35 am
[…]

… We seem to be upsetting the catholic-Catholic continuum, don't you think?
No.
It's entirely possible that you haven't. Unfortunately, so many people are out there condemning each other that I think some may have crossed the line unintentionally. Some seem to cross it gleefully.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:05 am

+JMJ+



[…]








ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by UncleBob » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:12 am

I like him. He irritates both the dust-farters and the rainbow-farters.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:36 am

That fellow really doesnt like Cardinal Burke.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:01 am

+JMJ+

Intra-Thread Trackbacks: pg 95 / pg 95


Pope Francis Derangement Syndrome XXIV: Cardinal Burke’s Rebel Yell [In-Depth, Analysis]
Image
Credit: Pexels

[…]

All this has been set-up for the question Mr. [Patrick] Coffin wants to pose to [Cardinal] Burke:
Some Catholics are wondering if it’s permissible to investigate whether or not the 1995 Apostolic Constitution Universi Dominici Gregis by St. John Paul II [Actually, UDG came out in 1996.], who laid down the norms for future papal conclaves, whether those rules were violated and whether or not the whole election of Pope Francis might be invalid. Is there any foundation to that speculation?
No. End stop.

But you see, those FaithfulCatholics™ who have been swallowing whole pharmacies of red pills over Pope Francis have a real problem. They want to reject his Magisterium, but deep down they know that’s not really consistent with their chest-thumping insistence on their own faithfulness. But if the conclave was illicit, if it broke the rules, if the pope’s not really the pope, then we have a license to throw all that out. We can get rid of Evangelii Gaudium, we can get rid of Laudato Si', we can get rid of Amoris Laetitia. And we can get rid of that pesky Bergoglio, call another conclave, and elect someone else. Possibly even Burke himself, if all goes according to our schemes the Holy Spirit’s direction.

And at this point, what Cardinal Burke — indeed any Prince of the Church — should have done was shut down the whole idea of any such speculation. "Shame on you, Mr. Coffin. Unless your evidence has all its i’s dotted and all its t’s crossed we don’t speculate that the pope’s not the pope. That encourages dissent, that encourages faction, that encourages schism, we will have none of that, and you, Mr. Coffin, are not going to use me or my position in the Church to lend credence to these rebel yells of yours. Get thee to a confessional; why wouldst thou be a breeder of schismatics?"

Of course, that’s not what Burke did do.

[…]

So now we come to Burke’s reply to the question from Mr. Coffin. And rather than being full of rebuke, it’s full of chin-scratching: Well, we don’t know, you know, it’s hard to say, but if there were more, more, more evidence, you know. But here are Burke’s precise words, from Dr. Goldstein’s transcript:
The only grounds that I think could be adduced for calling into question the validity of the election would be if the the election were organized by a campaign beforehand, which is strictly forbidden. And that is very difficult to demonstrate. [You know, can someone go out and dig up some evidence? It’s been tough, but someone, anyone?] … People talk about this extra ballot that was taken, but I do not see — I have studied that question — and I don’t see there that it would in any way call into question the validity of the election.
Now, stop. Let’s pause here. Burke says he’s actually studied the question; he’s not just responding to a casual inquiry from a red-pilled host. He’s spent some time and looked into this. Who gave him that assignment? Who thought that this was a worthy way for a prince of the Church to spend his time? Did Burke wake up one morning and say, “Gee, I wonder if that election was really valid, because you know someone else might be the real pope” — pausing to look at himself in the mirror — “I wonder who that could be.” Another pause. “Maybe I should put on cross-gartered yellow stockings beneath my cappa magna.” Burke sure has a lot of time on his hands if he can go researching conspiracy theories like this. I mean, idle hands do Satan’s work. Perhaps Pope Francis should find something for Burke to do that will keep him busy but not dangerous.

Burke went on: “There are indications that were made by the late Cardinal Gotfried Danneels … who talks about this St. Gallen Group —“

Stop again. Burke has really done some detailed research into this conspiracy theory. It’s like listening to the volumes and volumes of excruciating detail in a book by someone who thinks the CIA killed Kennedy, or 9/11 was an inside job, or the moon landing was faked, or Paul VI was replaced by an imposter.

And now Cardinal Burke practically begs for someone to give him the evidence he’s looking for. …

[…]

ImageImage

"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by wosbald » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:11 am

+JMJ+


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"[T]he emergency of irregular migration has to be met with justice, solidarity and mercy. Forms of collective expulsion, which do not allow for the suitable treatment of individual cases, are unacceptable."
— Pope Francis, Morocco

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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by hugodrax » Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:43 am

You might be the only person I've ever seen go from lunatic fringe to the other lunatic fringe. You've gone from Bircher to communist.
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Re: I'm Starting to Like This Pope

Post by durangopipe » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:26 am

Is Cardinal Burke's statement about global warming (essentially, that it is a hoax and this is yet one more reason to delegitimize Francis' papacy) clearly either a personal statement made in informal conversation or one made as a Cardinal to guide the flock?

Or is this distinction not at all clear?
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