How Global Birthrates Could Bounce Back

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Post by Ethell » Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:57 am

Overpopulation and the Earth's max capacity are worthy of discussion and consideration, but even Thunktank alluded to the fact that ability to feed the population isn't necessarily the issue. Likewise, adequate space isn't necessarily the issue.

As we've seen time and again in attempting to aid third world nations, the strong-man leaders of those nations typically steal all the incoming support and the infighting and tribalism rampant in most of these cultures means that whatever gets through the strong-man still doesn't usually reach the intended destination.

I'm sure there probably is some max capacity for the earth. The question is, according to Holy Scripture, what are we supposed to do about it? If a "culture of death" is unbiblical then whatever options we might take to limit population that are death-oriented (abortion, euthanasia, abortifacient contraception) are also unbiblical.

Maybe we're supposed to just let starvation, natural disasters and other phenomena control the population. Sounds harsh and I'm not advocating that position, but I do honestly believe more in a position like David's "let me not fall into the hands of men, but the hand of God" position when dealing with his sin over the census.

I guess I'm naive enough to believe that God will truly provide for all of us families with a "brood" whatever our income level. Granted, our family is fairly well off and its rather easy to take this position, but I do know families in far poorer economic situations that still manage to thrive and be happy without more income and with a large "brood."

I believe we need to divorce the concept of "enough money" from the concept of a large family. Where God leads God provides. That is the key, though. No one should feel bullied or "less-than"-ed into having a large family. If it is not done in faith it is sin. If anyone seeks a large family to keep up with their own subculture they are operating outside of God's will. Each must be convinced and convicted in their own heart and MUST respect the convictions of those who do not see the blessing of a large family.

/rambling

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Re: How Global Birthrates Could Bounce Back

Post by Cleon » Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:33 pm

I've been thinking about the size of my family again, probably because of the Christmas season. I'm a little sad because I can see an end to our time as one household now. Bigger kids growing up, working, college, contemplating getting their own place. On the other hand, that's what we want. I hope my children continue the big family tradition. I think I'd go crazy without a houseful of people around.
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Re: How Global Birthrates Could Bounce Back

Post by Jester » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:02 pm

tuttle wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:04 am
Cleon wrote: And then I began thinking about what it might be like when I'm old and have grandchildren and great-grandchildren. That will great.
Yeah, that's pretty cool. I read an article a few days back on why you should have 6 kids and that was one of the reasons they gave. Seems a pretty good reason to me.
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Re: How Global Birthrates Could Bounce Back

Post by hugodrax » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:15 pm

It's like people forgot why we hump. Concerned the world isn't pious enough, doesn't think the way you do, etc.? Breed! Want a house full of love and chaos and sloppy happiness? Have some kids.

I'm always surprised by those who complain about the way things are without doing anything about it.

Also, I love babies.
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Re: How Global Birthrates Could Bounce Back

Post by mont974x4 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:26 pm

hugodrax wrote:It's like people forgot why we hump. Concerned the world isn't pious enough, doesn't think the way you do, etc.? Breed! Want a house full of love and chaos and sloppy happiness? Have some kids.

I'm always surprised by those who complain about the way things are without doing anything about it.

Also, I love babies.
I have four sons. I did my part.


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Re: How Global Birthrates Could Bounce Back

Post by Cleon » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:54 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:15 pm
It's like people forgot why we hump. Concerned the world isn't pious enough, doesn't think the way you do, etc.? Breed! Want a house full of love and chaos and sloppy happiness? Have some kids.

I'm always surprised by those who complain about the way things are without doing anything about it.

Also, I love babies.
It wouldn't be a good morning unless I stepped on a Cheerio on my way to make coffee.

The other night I got to simultaneously tuck in my 19 year old and 6 year old (the bookends). They were snuggling together on a much-too-small bottom bunk. Made me happy.
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Re: How Global Birthrates Could Bounce Back

Post by Hovannes » Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:29 am

Bouncing on the bed springs would be a good start :whistling:
"What doesn't kill you, gives you a lot of unhealthy coping mechanisms and a really dark sense of humor."

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Re: How Global Birthrates Could Bounce Back

Post by Cleon » Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:57 am

Hovannes wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:29 am
Bouncing on the bed springs would be a good start :whistling:
Those stupid foam mattresses that everyone has nowadays...they give no return whatsoever.
"Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven" - Jesus

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Re: How Global Birthrates Could Bounce Back

Post by JimVH » Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:59 am

Cleon wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:57 am
Hovannes wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:29 am
Bouncing on the bed springs would be a good start :whistling:
Those stupid foam mattresses that everyone has nowadays...they give no return whatsoever.
Yes, but the trade-off is better traction and leverage.

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Re:

Post by Nature of a Man » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:25 am

Del wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:02 pm
Cleon wrote:
serapion wrote:Hasn't this always been the Catholic (and for that matter Muslim) strategy? Out-reproduce 'em. Don't knock it till you've tried it! It works.
I think it's been the Christian way up until recent times. Christians give birth to Christians. It's a very simple covenantal concept that goes back to the beginning.

Where's Del? :lol:
Why is everyone looking at me?

It is common in history that the life-affirming cultures supersede the cultures of death. Muslims are quietly conquering post-Christian Europe after 1300 years of failing to conquer Christian Europe.

As a personal testimony, my wife and I regret that we only had two kids. And our sons agree that they would be happier with more brothers and sisters, and less stuff. And we didn't even have a good reason for limiting our family -- it was just the style of the time, and we didn't think to question it.

As to the "carrying capacity" of the planet -- our ability to grow and transport food has expanded much faster than the world's population. We have never had more capacity to feed and comfort humanity than we enjoy now. Yet the Malthusian myth of "over-population" never dies. (I think it is racist at heart.... folks who favor population control are pretty quick to blame all problems on all of those Africans and Asians. The UN has a pretty aggressive program of reducing their "surplus population.")

I go to a parish that has several young families with four and six and more kids. They are always so extremely happy. I encourage young people to be open to that happiness. It means some material sacrifices, but the joy and love pay off so much better in return!
"Population control" in the sense of preventing severe abusers or neglectors from having children I would argue is different.

Most of the broad claims about "overpopulation" seem somewhat absurd, however I believe overpopulation can happen relative to one's capacity or willingness to provide for their children relative to the resources available to them - such as what we see in the case of some "welfare families" or individuals with no job or employment intentionally siring children without providing for them.

(In this sense, my take is that "population control" in this sense is somewhat culturally ubiquitous; such as how punishment for adultery in the Bible was punishment not only for sin on the individual level, but also a means of preventing illegitimate children from being born when the resources to provide for them would not be available, as they would in a marriage).

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Re: Re:

Post by hugodrax » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:44 am

Nature of a Man wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:25 am
Del wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:02 pm
Cleon wrote:
serapion wrote:Hasn't this always been the Catholic (and for that matter Muslim) strategy? Out-reproduce 'em. Don't knock it till you've tried it! It works.
I think it's been the Christian way up until recent times. Christians give birth to Christians. It's a very simple covenantal concept that goes back to the beginning.

Where's Del? :lol:
Why is everyone looking at me?

It is common in history that the life-affirming cultures supersede the cultures of death. Muslims are quietly conquering post-Christian Europe after 1300 years of failing to conquer Christian Europe.

As a personal testimony, my wife and I regret that we only had two kids. And our sons agree that they would be happier with more brothers and sisters, and less stuff. And we didn't even have a good reason for limiting our family -- it was just the style of the time, and we didn't think to question it.

As to the "carrying capacity" of the planet -- our ability to grow and transport food has expanded much faster than the world's population. We have never had more capacity to feed and comfort humanity than we enjoy now. Yet the Malthusian myth of "over-population" never dies. (I think it is racist at heart.... folks who favor population control are pretty quick to blame all problems on all of those Africans and Asians. The UN has a pretty aggressive program of reducing their "surplus population.")

I go to a parish that has several young families with four and six and more kids. They are always so extremely happy. I encourage young people to be open to that happiness. It means some material sacrifices, but the joy and love pay off so much better in return!
"Population control" in the sense of preventing severe abusers or neglectors from having children I would argue is different.

Most of the broad claims about "overpopulation" seem somewhat absurd, however I believe overpopulation can happen relative to one's capacity or willingness to provide for their children relative to the resources available to them - such as what we see in the case of some "welfare families" or individuals with no job or employment intentionally siring children without providing for them.

(In this sense, my take is that "population control" in this sense is somewhat culturally ubiquitous; such as how punishment for adultery in the Bible was punishment not only for sin on the individual level, but also a means of preventing illegitimate children from being born when the resources to provide for them would not be available, as they would in a marriage).
No, no, no.

You take her out on the town. Ensure she has a magical evening and sees you in a different light than other men. Invite her in to see your etchings. Make her a champagne cocktail. Next thing you know, boom, you’re doing the horizontal mambo.

Don’t slobber all over her the minute you see her and try to drag her in the bushes then go all premature in your boxers at the thought of it. That’s amateur hour. Just embarrassing yourself, kid.
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Re: Re:

Post by UncleBob » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:48 am

hugodrax wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:44 am
Nature of a Man wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:25 am
Del wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:02 pm
Cleon wrote:
serapion wrote:Hasn't this always been the Catholic (and for that matter Muslim) strategy? Out-reproduce 'em. Don't knock it till you've tried it! It works.
I think it's been the Christian way up until recent times. Christians give birth to Christians. It's a very simple covenantal concept that goes back to the beginning.

Where's Del? :lol:
Why is everyone looking at me?

It is common in history that the life-affirming cultures supersede the cultures of death. Muslims are quietly conquering post-Christian Europe after 1300 years of failing to conquer Christian Europe.

As a personal testimony, my wife and I regret that we only had two kids. And our sons agree that they would be happier with more brothers and sisters, and less stuff. And we didn't even have a good reason for limiting our family -- it was just the style of the time, and we didn't think to question it.

As to the "carrying capacity" of the planet -- our ability to grow and transport food has expanded much faster than the world's population. We have never had more capacity to feed and comfort humanity than we enjoy now. Yet the Malthusian myth of "over-population" never dies. (I think it is racist at heart.... folks who favor population control are pretty quick to blame all problems on all of those Africans and Asians. The UN has a pretty aggressive program of reducing their "surplus population.")

I go to a parish that has several young families with four and six and more kids. They are always so extremely happy. I encourage young people to be open to that happiness. It means some material sacrifices, but the joy and love pay off so much better in return!
"Population control" in the sense of preventing severe abusers or neglectors from having children I would argue is different.

Most of the broad claims about "overpopulation" seem somewhat absurd, however I believe overpopulation can happen relative to one's capacity or willingness to provide for their children relative to the resources available to them - such as what we see in the case of some "welfare families" or individuals with no job or employment intentionally siring children without providing for them.

(In this sense, my take is that "population control" in this sense is somewhat culturally ubiquitous; such as how punishment for adultery in the Bible was punishment not only for sin on the individual level, but also a means of preventing illegitimate children from being born when the resources to provide for them would not be available, as they would in a marriage).
No, no, no.

You take her out on the town. Ensure she has a magical evening and sees you in a different light than other men. Invite her in to see your etchings. Make her a champagne cocktail. Next thing you know, boom, you’re doing the horizontal mambo.

Don’t slobber all over her the minute you see her and try to drag her in the bushes then go all premature in your boxers at the thought of it. That’s amateur hour. Just embarrassing yourself, kid.
Don't forget to put this on the ole stereo..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCW1i5HQ0o0
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Re: Re:

Post by Nature of a Man » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:42 am

hugodrax wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:44 am
Nature of a Man wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:25 am
Del wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:02 pm
Cleon wrote:
serapion wrote:Hasn't this always been the Catholic (and for that matter Muslim) strategy? Out-reproduce 'em. Don't knock it till you've tried it! It works.
I think it's been the Christian way up until recent times. Christians give birth to Christians. It's a very simple covenantal concept that goes back to the beginning.

Where's Del? :lol:
Why is everyone looking at me?

It is common in history that the life-affirming cultures supersede the cultures of death. Muslims are quietly conquering post-Christian Europe after 1300 years of failing to conquer Christian Europe.

As a personal testimony, my wife and I regret that we only had two kids. And our sons agree that they would be happier with more brothers and sisters, and less stuff. And we didn't even have a good reason for limiting our family -- it was just the style of the time, and we didn't think to question it.

As to the "carrying capacity" of the planet -- our ability to grow and transport food has expanded much faster than the world's population. We have never had more capacity to feed and comfort humanity than we enjoy now. Yet the Malthusian myth of "over-population" never dies. (I think it is racist at heart.... folks who favor population control are pretty quick to blame all problems on all of those Africans and Asians. The UN has a pretty aggressive program of reducing their "surplus population.")

I go to a parish that has several young families with four and six and more kids. They are always so extremely happy. I encourage young people to be open to that happiness. It means some material sacrifices, but the joy and love pay off so much better in return!
"Population control" in the sense of preventing severe abusers or neglectors from having children I would argue is different.

Most of the broad claims about "overpopulation" seem somewhat absurd, however I believe overpopulation can happen relative to one's capacity or willingness to provide for their children relative to the resources available to them - such as what we see in the case of some "welfare families" or individuals with no job or employment intentionally siring children without providing for them.

(In this sense, my take is that "population control" in this sense is somewhat culturally ubiquitous; such as how punishment for adultery in the Bible was punishment not only for sin on the individual level, but also a means of preventing illegitimate children from being born when the resources to provide for them would not be available, as they would in a marriage).
No, no, no.

You take her out on the town. Ensure she has a magical evening and sees you in a different light than other men. Invite her in to see your etchings. Make her a champagne cocktail. Next thing you know, boom, you’re doing the horizontal mambo.

Don’t slobber all over her the minute you see her and try to drag her in the bushes then go all premature in your boxers at the thought of it. That’s amateur hour. Just embarrassing yourself, kid.
That's so romantic...

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Re: How Global Birthrates Could Bounce Back

Post by FredS » Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:58 am

JimVH wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:59 am
Cleon wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:57 am
Hovannes wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:29 am
Bouncing on the bed springs would be a good start :whistling:
Those stupid foam mattresses that everyone has nowadays...they give no return whatsoever.
Yes, but the trade-off is better traction and leverage.
The image of you and Lovely Rita Meter Maid digging in and . . . well, it's just not something I need to imagine.
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Re: How Global Birthrates Could Bounce Back

Post by gaining_age » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:03 pm

You read the darndest things on CPS.



And recently we've been noticing we need either a new mattress set or a at least a new boxspring.
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Re: How Global Birthrates Could Bounce Back

Post by hugodrax » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:18 pm

So about six years ago, my wife and I were shopping for a new mattress and almost got a memory foam. I was so excited. She beats me in her sleep, you see. I was once awakened to the sight of her playing soccer in her sleep, juggling a ball down field before launching the game-winning kick.

All of a sudden, my wife called the salesman back over and surprised the heck out of me. She's rather aristocratic, you see: friendly but proper with a mid-Victorian sense of propriety.

Imagine my shock when she asked the guy how people f'd on one of those! Hell, imagine the guy's shock. I slunk out the door.

My youngest turns six in May.
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Re: How Global Birthrates Could Bounce Back

Post by Thunktank » Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:16 pm

hugodrax wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:18 pm
So about six years ago, my wife and I were shopping for a new mattress and almost got a memory foam. I was so excited. She beats me in her sleep, you see. I was once awakened to the sight of her playing soccer in her sleep, juggling a ball down field before launching the game-winning kick.

All of a sudden, my wife called the salesman back over and surprised the heck out of me. She's rather aristocratic, you see: friendly but proper with a mid-Victorian sense of propriety.

Imagine my shock when she asked the guy how people f'd on one of those! Hell, imagine the guy's shock. I slunk out the door.

My youngest turns six in May.
We can’t talk about mattresses in such matters without also considering the role head boards play. Almost as difficult a decision when shopping for as the mattress!
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Re: How Global Birthrates Could Bounce Back

Post by hugodrax » Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:09 pm

Thunktank wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:16 pm
hugodrax wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:18 pm
So about six years ago, my wife and I were shopping for a new mattress and almost got a memory foam. I was so excited. She beats me in her sleep, you see. I was once awakened to the sight of her playing soccer in her sleep, juggling a ball down field before launching the game-winning kick.

All of a sudden, my wife called the salesman back over and surprised the heck out of me. She's rather aristocratic, you see: friendly but proper with a mid-Victorian sense of propriety.

Imagine my shock when she asked the guy how people f'd on one of those! Hell, imagine the guy's shock. I slunk out the door.

My youngest turns six in May.
We can’t talk about mattresses in such matters without also considering the role head boards play. Almost as difficult a decision when shopping for as the mattress!
Quite simple. If one has the ability to keep the bed away from the wall, then headboards are appropriate. Having knocked a hole into the plaster in our, ahem, exuberance, we decided to have one built into the wall, thus solving all problems.
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Re: How Global Birthrates Could Bounce Back

Post by Hovannes » Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:39 pm

A sound track is definitely in order----
https://youtu.be/NqmtCrgpeik
https://youtu.be/OnFlx2Lnr9Q
Can you dig it?
https://youtu.be/nFvRvSxsW-I
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Re: How Global Birthrates Could Bounce Back

Post by JimVH » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:00 pm

Hovannes wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:39 pm
A sound track is definitely in order----
https://youtu.be/NqmtCrgpeik
https://youtu.be/OnFlx2Lnr9Q
Can you dig it?
https://youtu.be/nFvRvSxsW-I
Let's not forget:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0I6mhZ5wMw

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