Why People Leave/Change Churches

For those deep thinkers out there.

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UncleBob
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Re: Why People Leave/Change Churches

Post by UncleBob » Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:59 pm

Hovannes wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:09 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:27 pm
Hovannes wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:18 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:09 pm
Just do a Google search for "sex abuse scandals Christian". That could have something to do with it.
Then do a search for "sex abuse scandals in public schools."
Ah yes! The old tu quoque twaddle.

Do you think that The Church, The Bride of Christ, should be held to the legal standard that pedophilia is always illegal and maybe even, just maybe, the moral standard of that's always wrong?

Just checking for a friend.
Nope.
Only to show that pedophila is by far more commonplace among school teachers than it is among clergy.
If this is a valid concern for taking children out of public schools for home schooling, why are so many State hostile to home schooling?

The answer is fear mongering. A pastor is publicly convicted and shamed long before the case ever gets to court to be determined by the rule of law. It is the same with teachers but you won't read anything about it a month later, or years later when ex students bring suit for emotional trauma.
Church goers are going to fear pastors, rightly or wrongly accused---much like the LAPD that murdered the homeless lady being held hostage recently, the public isn't going to look at the LAPD in the same way again. people tend to look at the profession when making up their minds.
You won't find that level of coverage being given to pedophile public school teachers.
My local State University even had a few profs convicted of various sex crimes. They weren't "let go" and are still teaching, after being convicted.
I doubt if anyone on campus even remembers their names---but I remember one in the Geography Dept.
I'm not trying to make an asymmetrical argument here, only to point out that if you're going to bet that your child is being endangered by a pedophile, a faculty member is statistically more of a threat than a pastor.
Me? I don't necessarily trust statistics but I do consider them.
Then start at thread about why people leave the public schools. BTW--the evidence for "a faculty member is statistically more of a threat than a pastor". I'd like to see the study, please. In any event, the issue isn't which is more dangerous but, rather, that it is dangerous at all.
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"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

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Re: Why People Leave/Change Churches

Post by FredS » Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:09 pm

UncleBob wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:27 pm
Hovannes wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:18 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:09 pm
Just do a Google search for "sex abuse scandals Christian". That could have something to do with it.
Then do a search for "sex abuse scandals in public schools."
Ah yes! The old tu quoque twaddle.

Do you think that The Church, The Bride of Christ, should be held to the legal standard that pedophilia is always illegal and maybe even, just maybe, the moral standard of that's always wrong?

Just checking for a friend.
Of course the Church should hold the position that pedophilia is always illegal, always immoral and always wrong. Who has suggested to you that it shouldn't? Did you just dream that up? Why would you ask such a thing?

You just cook up crazy positions and ask others to defend it. Will you label every CPS'er who dosn't proclaim publicly that pedophilia is always illegal and always immoral, a pedophile themselves?

Please don't post any links to support your position that the Church does not think that pedophilia is always illegal and always immoral as proof that Christians need to specifically denounce every whack job that writes something on the internet. I want to know about Uncle Bob and why he thinks that the Church (not some broken individuals in the church) holds that position.
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Re: Why People Leave/Change Churches

Post by UncleBob » Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:30 pm

FredS wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:09 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:27 pm
Hovannes wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:18 pm
UncleBob wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:09 pm
Just do a Google search for "sex abuse scandals Christian". That could have something to do with it.
Then do a search for "sex abuse scandals in public schools."
Ah yes! The old tu quoque twaddle.

Do you think that The Church, The Bride of Christ, should be held to the legal standard that pedophilia is always illegal and maybe even, just maybe, the moral standard of that's always wrong?

Just checking for a friend.
Of course the Church should hold the position that pedophilia is always illegal, always immoral and always wrong. Who has suggested to you that it shouldn't? Did you just dream that up? Why would you ask such a thing?

You just cook up crazy positions and ask others to defend it. Will you label every CPS'er who dosn't proclaim publicly that pedophilia is always illegal and always immoral, a pedophile themselves?

Please don't post any links to support your position that the Church does not think that pedophilia is always illegal and always immoral as proof that Christians need to specifically denounce every whack job that writes something on the internet. I want to know about Uncle Bob and why he thinks that the Church (not some broken individuals in the church) holds that position.
Whew! Glad that's cleared up.
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." - Robert A. Heinlein

"Many of the points here, taken to their logical conclusions, don't hold up to logic; they're simply Godded-up ways of saying "I don't like that." - Skip

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." -Mark Twain

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Re: Why People Leave Church

Post by coco » Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:53 am

FredS wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:59 am
coco wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:13 am
Christian faith without church does involve a degree of innovation in the Christian faith.
But the American way is to be fiercely independent. A pastor friend says we're like cows rather than sheep, who need a Shepard.
Or cats
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Re: Why People Leave Church

Post by durangopipe » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:19 am

coco wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:53 am
FredS wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:59 am
coco wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:13 am
Christian faith without church does involve a degree of innovation in the Christian faith.
But the American way is to be fiercely independent. A pastor friend says we're like cows rather than sheep, who need a Shepard.
Or cats
Or goats.
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Re: Why People Leave Church

Post by coco » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:39 am

durangopipe wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:19 am
coco wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:53 am
FredS wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:59 am
coco wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:13 am
Christian faith without church does involve a degree of innovation in the Christian faith.
But the American way is to be fiercely independent. A pastor friend says we're like cows rather than sheep, who need a Shepard.
Or cats
Or goats.
Image
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Re: Why People Leave Church

Post by joegoat » Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:37 pm

serapion wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:20 pm
joegoat wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:27 pm
serapion wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:53 pm
joegoat wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:52 pm
serapion wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:23 am
A more important question, gentlemen, is why people in the millennial age bracket and down (30 - 18) are staying away from church.
I'm 27. I unfortunately fall into the millennial bracket and all the embarrassing stereotypes that come along with it. I'm turned off by many churches' attempts at attracting me. The coffee bar and jump around, whoopie woo worship is extremely off putting to me. The watered down message of God loves you no matter what, so live however you want and if you're really saved, things will just be swell with not so much as a bump in the road.
When I moved away from home, finding a new church was a very high priority for me. I found a home with the Anglicans. I love worshiping in a liturgy! Partaking in Holy Communion every week as a body of believers is wonderful. It's simple straight forward Christianity.
I've since moved again and I'm still on the hunt. I've recently found an Anglican congregation that we've attended and both liked it, but my wife grew up in this area and has roots in a church here so we go there by default. I'm not particularly fond of them and we both understand this. Their worship is of the aforementioned type and though I Iike the pastor and think his head is on straight, they have a lot of folks who take what he says in a message and just take it to the point of no return. "No condemnation" is a catch phrase that seems to mean do whatever you want to some folks. They're big on "healing." I very much believe that there are miraculous healings through The Spirit, but they seem to believe that our earthly bodies will never be inflicted by so much as an ache. Even if someone is clinically ill, once hands are laid on them they are healed. They might still be taking the full dose of medication to keep the symptoms mostly at bay and the tests are still coming back very positive, but they are healed... The shame is, there are some great people there! I've never had that good feeling of, "this is home" there.
Maybe I can't speak for my entire generation, but I just want something real. All I want is a hearty piece of cake. There is no need for two inches of icing piled on top to make it look better. It doesn't need to be a new recipe either, Good ol' fashioned vanilla is fine by me.
Well said! And you are confirming something I suspected.
My age, premature curmudgeonous, or love of icingless cake?
:lol: Guess I should explain that!

None of those things. Rather the yearning for something "real", ancient and solid rather than uber-market oriented stuff that could be a new breakfast food, a line of curated men's goods or Jesus. I actually passed your comments (anonymously) to my mostly millennial kids to see if they feel similarly. So far only one has responded as yet, basically that she is looking for what is real too.
The Anglican congregations that I've visited have all had a strong showing of "millennial" aged people. I'd say the norm is just as many young families and college age kids as say, 40 plus year olds.
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Re: Why People Leave/Change Churches

Post by Steve S » Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:00 pm

I'm a Gen-Xer, for whatever that's worth, and I would identify as broadly Evangelical. I've moved around the USA over the course of my life, and that's always necessitated changing churches. The only time I've actually changed churches without moving was when I was offered a part-time staff position at a church I wasn't attending, so of course my wife and I started attending that church all the time.

My oldest daughter is a Millennial, and after moving around between a couple different churches, she's landed at a local Anglican church--one with good theology. The combination of a formal liturgy and substantial homilies really appeals to her.

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